Robert99 37 #20576 January 10, 2011 Al, How did your meeting with Jared go the last time you were in Tucson? Robert Nicholson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaretakerAl 0 #20577 January 10, 2011 Quote Al, How did your meeting with Jared go the last time you were in Tucson? Robert Nicholson Naw, he's a Democrat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaretakerAl 0 #20578 January 10, 2011 "With all due respect if you know so little about jumping, the hardware or how to mount this on that then you don't know enough to verify if the trainer was one of the best riggers in the business or just full of shit." If you can't fathom who the trainer was by now you probably never will. If you knew, you wouldn't be so quick with the smart answers. I think your comments are not constructive at all and only attempt to pester. I understand. You do not. That's fine. He knows and watches. You don't get the rigging jobs he had without being Number One. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaretakerAl 0 #20579 January 10, 2011 "You state that Duane absolutely jumped with the chute marked with an X. Other comments you have made here and on Facebook about actual events that occurred on Nov 24 1971 are strong, declarative, absolute statements,..." Yes, I know. Bluebird was involved. Training was steady and frequent, and extremely detailed. His directions were specific, precise and certain. The inconsequential evidence on the plane is in exact parallel to the training. The chute with the X was packed by his trainer who Duane had total confidence in. Every detail reported is consistent with the instruction. The debriefing reported that everything went as planned with a couple exceptions. This was a mock hyjacking carried out to the letter of the book of regulations from bomb description on. Duane would never have used a different chute. That one was special, and sewn so he could prove nobody fouled it. The chute could have already been fitted to the harness in the configuration the trainer specified. That would be logical, but logic is not in evidence. Any prosecutorial evidence in this case is totally contaminated by agents. You can not depend on any pertanent evidence claims. I have no doubts about what the Project Norjak team did, and you will concur when he releases his book postmortum and you realize the magnatude. This all worked because it was done according to a well worked out plan and control from the would-be 'gotcha boys.' They made films to teach FBI students. This was a precision training exercise, a political leverage for the FAA. I worked for the FAA guy as well. All pilots except Duane and me as far as I know. Jumpers were involved here. U12? Hope that helps some. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SKYWHUFFO 0 #20580 January 10, 2011 AL, A very simple question that other jumpers have asked and you have failed to address. I will now ask for a simple answer. I simply want to know how he attached it to the as you call it harness without any hardware that comes on the rig or as you say harness. Remember i am just a dumb skydiver who happens to have done it over 4000 times in my life and once out the back of a jet. We would really like to know how he attached a belly mount reserve, the money and thought this was the way "he trusted". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaretakerAl 0 #20581 January 10, 2011 "You cannot be absolute about anything that Duane / Dan / McCoy / Christiansen / Mickey Mouse, et al did or didn't do that night if you were not there to witness it at the time of the occurrence. And as I think you've also argued yourself --- some might say there are no absolutes when it comes to eyewitness anything." Absolute about exact action and words the night of the incident, no, you are right. As a documentation of the exercise as reported by McCoy, yes, it is as I state. Did Duane have sour or seven-up? Couldn't be absolute, but I would rely on Jo's speculation for an opinion. Since it is immaterial to the bottom line. Does not matter where he landed or how the money got to Tena Bar or how far the engineers moved or buried the money. The basic fact is that Duane Weber was trained specifically for every minor detail of this hyjacking, he carried it out precisely according to his instructions, and lost the damned money. Jo Weber's story will varify the portion she was exposed to. I'll tell what I was exposed to. Take it or not, it all boils down to the same common denominator. Nobody can prove a damned thing. Nobody will listen if you could. It is mute. So, I am yelling it at the top of my lungs. Doesn't matter. 'I absolutely know' is more positive than 'I think" and I am a whole bunch more certain than, "You bet your *&@#% arse!" And I apologize for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 143 #20582 January 10, 2011 Quote "With all due respect if you know so little about jumping, the hardware or how to mount this on that then you don't know enough to verify if the trainer was one of the best riggers in the business or just full of shit." If you can't fathom who the trainer was by now you probably never will. If you knew, you wouldn't be so quick with the smart answers. I think your comments are not constructive at all and only attempt to pester. I understand. You do not. That's fine. He knows and watches. You don't get the rigging jobs he had without being Number One. I will save you the hassle - I never will figure out who the trainer was. Take my comments how you like - so far on this thread we have a couple of pet DB Coopers 1) Duane 2) Kenny 3) Jammies Dad 4) Vickies Dad It seems for the most part that people supporting "their" Cooper candidate don't like being asked questions - but are happy to shoot at others. I am pretty impressed by Vickies approach and it really stands out from the rest. We'll never see eye to eye on this so peace and outExperienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaretakerAl 0 #20583 January 10, 2011 "A very simple question that other jumpers have asked and you have failed to address." As stated, I am not the trainer. You will have to ask the trainer as he did not train me, he trained Duane Weber. I don't know a harness from a saddle, so there is no way I could be expected to answer your loaded question. You must know before asking it that I am not the expert with that information. So you ask it to discredit me. You only display your bias. You offer an explanation. You are the expert here, show some of that vast knowledge. I KNOW what was said. You know the various equipment, but we are not sure you are talking about what was used. He said "You COULD use it on the back, but you'd have to reach..." Now, what might that refer too, Georger? Please don't flame any more, if that is what this is. It is not constructive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #20584 January 10, 2011 I was just browsing the internet, and minding my own business, when I came upon this astonishingly unbiased and brilliantly accurate article about DB Cooper; which should appeal to those with a higher intellect and bigger knob. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/6192100/brad_meltzers_decoded_season_1_episode.html?cat=2 After reading this article I was happy at all the niceness and began to skip and jump and do a few pirouettes and what not, in my driveway. Well my neighbor comes out and announces that he doesn’t need any of this crap and gives me a squirt with the garden hose. It’s going to take more than a dose of 37 degree water dispensed from Captain Buzzkill’s strange sense of decorum to cool my enthusiasm. I’m just looking for the truth anywhere it happens to take me. As long as it is convenient, cheap or involves the consumption of some sort of intoxicant, which should be near the truth in any case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #20585 January 10, 2011 QuoteI think we need a theme song for the thread the way it has taken a detour DB Cooper Thread Might I suggest this as a possibly more appropriate theme song in light of this 'detour'... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQvVTPXZuBoSkydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #20586 January 10, 2011 Can you state in one or two short paragraphs what the goal of this supposed jump was and why after 43ish years, if it was a government operation, it wouldn't have simply been declassified by now? Think about it. What possible purpose could a "fake" hijacking serve that would need to remain classified this late in the game?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #20587 January 10, 2011 Al, Given the difficulty of the jump why would a crack operation supervised by "the best in the business" pick Duane Weber as the jumper? That part makes no sense to me when you had people like Ted Braden, Sheridan Peterson or Richard McCoy available. There are parachuting and survival skills needed in a jump like this that ONLY come from lots of experience. Even if Duane trained for a few months he still didn't have the experience needed to do a job like this with a reasonable chance of completing it successfully. Also, who in their right mind would trust a thieving con man with $200,000 in cash? Would you? What do you mean by "radio vectoring"? Can you be more specific? The whole idea of a rigger sewing a special rig shut to prevent tampering is implausible. Riggers have customized indivdually pressed lead seals that they use routinely for this purpose. Anyone can rip a sewn seam and redo it. The riggers lead seal has an identifying mark on it that would not be so easy to tamper with without detection. That's precisely what they are made for. Also, why on earth would a top rigger do some wacky thing like mounting a chest reserve on a jumper's back and require him to reach behind to find the ripcord handle? You just keep digging a deeper hole on this X chute explanation. You still have not explained how a chest reserve could be fastened to the NB6 harness that Cooper donned for the jump. It had no D rings, no secure way to attach a clip on chest reserve. The Pioneer rig that Cooper left on the plane DID have D rings. Also, Cooper had Cossey's bail out rig, a Navy NB6 harness and container with a 28 ft C9 canopy packed inside and a front mounted ripcord handle. Why not use this? Why go for some crazy back mounted reserve configuration that defies common sense and requires hardware that wasnt present on the NB6? Several times I have run into someone at a party who is wowing a crowd with bold tales of military or civilian skydiving that are so full of holes that you just know they are lieing. You usually catch them on a hardware question, not one that marks you as a sceptical jumper but one which will cause them to make up some nonsense answer about the gear. If you are going to go wild on gear explanations why stop with the conventional? I think Cooper's extended bathroom break was to rig up his high pressure Kevlar helium tank to the X container which actually had a balloon in it. Once he deployed the C9 he started the inflation process and let the winds carry him dozens of miles from the aircraft path and far beyond the search perimeters. Now THAT's something that you'd really need a top notch rigger to set up. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JamieCooper 0 #20588 January 10, 2011 Quote Quote "With all due respect if you know so little about jumping, the hardware or how to mount this on that then you don't know enough to verify if the trainer was one of the best riggers in the business or just full of shit." If you can't fathom who the trainer was by now you probably never will. If you knew, you wouldn't be so quick with the smart answers. I think your comments are not constructive at all and only attempt to pester. I understand. You do not. That's fine. He knows and watches. You don't get the rigging jobs he had without being Number One. I will save you the hassle - I never will figure out who the trainer was. Take my comments how you like - so far on this thread we have a couple of pet DB Coopers 1) Duane 2) Kenny 3) Jammies Dad 4) Vickies Dad It seems for the most part that people supporting "their" Cooper candidate don't like being asked questions - but are happy to shoot at others. I am pretty impressed by Vickies approach and it really stands out from the rest. We'll never see eye to eye on this so peace and out since posting here, I always have been completely willing to answer any questions about this subject that I'm able to. which is the primary thing I've been faulted with here, some consider that having others do my research. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #20589 January 10, 2011 Lets not forget Bruce's theory (which may have been offered in jest, I'm not sure) that the CIA had a mind control component in the Norjack project which was to convince a multitude of experimental subjects that they were DBC. I'd say if that happened the experiment was a big success. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #20590 January 10, 2011 QuoteTake my comments how you like - so far on this thread we have a couple of pet DB Coopers 1) Duane 2) Kenny 3) Jammies Dad 4) Vickies Dad Don't forget Barb Dayton. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JamieCooper 0 #20591 January 10, 2011 QuoteQuoteTake my comments how you like - so far on this thread we have a couple of pet DB Coopers 1) Duane 2) Kenny 3) Jammies Dad 4) Vickies Dad Don't forget Barb Dayton. 377 I still am now as before willing to answer any questions I can about the case. since coming here other things have happened. caretakeral is known as "knoss" on facebook, this "al" I'm guessing is an employee in whatever assisted living location he is at. Knoss appears to be a decorated vet on his facebook, looks like he may have even received the congressional medal of honor. sadly, while his service was most likely of great value to this nation, he seems to show signs of dementia now. shortly after incurring his wrath by posting at all, my twitter account picked up some followers associated with a retirement community in Florida. one of my other accounts had many attempts to hack it as well. and yesterday I noticed some new entries on the wikipedia page for db cooper. one of which is plagiarized from something that I said in a private message here involving a murder suspect from an entirely different case, and it's being used to support this Gossett theory. I'll say this about Gossett, in some photos he does bear a striking resemblance to my father. too wide of a nose, and too much of a bragger to be DB Cooper. also it shouldn't require doctoring the actual FBI evidence (ie. the 2nd composite sketch) to support your pet DB Cooper as we have seen with the Gossett teory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #20592 January 10, 2011 QuoteKnoss appears to be a decorated vet on his facebook, looks like he may have even received the congressional medal of honor. Medal of Honor?? They are all listed here: Quotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Medal_of_Honor_recipients#Vietnam_War 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JamieCooper 0 #20593 January 10, 2011 QuoteQuoteKnoss appears to be a decorated vet on his facebook, looks like he may have even received the congressional medal of honor. Medal of Honor?? They are all listed here: Quotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Medal_of_Honor_recipients#Vietnam_War 377 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=504041&id=100000591563960 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #20594 January 10, 2011 I didnt see a claim to being a Medal of Honor recipient. Can you cut and post it here? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JamieCooper 0 #20595 January 10, 2011 he didn't say so, just the photo suggests it. sorry. I guess that might have been presumptuous and misleading on my part. the person in the photo has a medal of honor. it may or may not be caretakeral/Bob Caretakeral, care to illuminate and clarify this for us? given the warped ideas some have about copyright laws and such here I would rather you just follow the link provided than download and post his photo here. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=504041&id=100000591563960 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #20596 January 10, 2011 Bob makes some outrageous claims but I dont think he is claiming to be a Medal of Honor recipient. The choice of Duane as the jumper for Norjack is on its face EXTREMELY implausible. It would be like me being on the A list for the upcoming 500 way in Dubai. http://www.dubai500.com/ 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #20597 January 10, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteKnoss appears to be a decorated vet on his facebook, looks like he may have even received the congressional medal of honor. Medal of Honor?? They are all listed here: Quotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Medal_of_Honor_recipients#Vietnam_War 377 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=504041&id=100000591563960 Well, the picture he has in his profile photo album shows a person wearing a Medal of Honor, but it doesn't identify him as being that person. People have used all sorts of odd photos as their profile photos on Facebook. My wife is fond of animals. That said, if the profile photo gives the impression a person was awarded the Medal of Honor when, in fact, they didn't, I think that's a pretty crappy move. Hey Bob, care to explain the photo? Who is it? Just in case it somehow gets lost or people aren't able to see it due to privacy settings on FB, I've attached it here.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #20598 January 10, 2011 It's Audie Murphy's photo. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #20599 January 10, 2011 QuoteIt's Audie Murphy's photo. Google confirmed. http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=audie+murphy&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 Now the question; why would Bob have that as a photo in his profile album on FB?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #20600 January 10, 2011 QuoteIt's Audie Murphy's photo. 377 confirm... a new recipient is just up the road from me. I hope they give he and his wife some rest soon. Part of their function is to attend or represent at public events, but I pray that doesnt get carried to extremes and wear them out. People do need some privacy and Giunta has earned his. BTW, Ive always liked your avatar. I came to the decision not to use one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
