DB Cooper

[377 20]

Tolerance, Georger, tolerance.

Why try to shut Jo down? If you don't like her emails or PMs, just ignore them. They can't be that much of a bother if you don't open them. Most email systems allow you to put unwanted senders on a spam list that will filter their furure emails. PMs are very easy to ignore.

I don't like censorship. Jo might have got Ckret censored by his superiors and if she did I am really pissed. The solution, however, is not to censor Jo.

This is, in the end, a skydiving forum. In my 40 plus years of jumping, I have found skydivers to be a remarkably tolerant group. Have you seen the bar scene in the first Star Wars movie? Those mutant freaks could all be on the same load at my DZ with no problems. Try to keep that spirit alive here.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

Quote

Tolerance, Georger, tolerance.

Why try to shut Jo down? If you don't like her emails or PMs, just ignore them. They can't be that much of a bother if you don't open them. Most email systems allow you to put unwanted senders on a spam list that will filter their furure emails. PMs are very easy to ignore.

I don't like censorship. Jo might have got Ckret censored by his superiors and if she did I am really pissed. The solution, however, is not to censor Jo.

This is, in the end, a skydiving forum. In my 40 plus years of jumping, I have found skydivers to be a remarkably tolerant group. Have you seen the bar scene in the first Star Wars movie? Those mutant freaks could all be on the same load at my DZ with no problems. Try to keep that spirit alive here.

377

Tolerance? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its not just me -

Its out of my hands.

WHY? !!! ??? ARE YOU ADDRESSING ME ON THIS!?

YOU NEED____ TO BE ADDRESSING YOUR FRIEND
JO WEBER.

THAT IS ELEMENTARY.

[skyjack71 0]

I won't PM someone unless they ask me to, but somethings I can't and won't say in the forum. I thought if they didn't want the PM they were able to block it. SORRY didn't mean to step on anyones toes or ruffle any feathers. I have answered some questions and sometimes it required a PRIVATE answer. Won't make that mistake again.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 20]

Not really on topic but found it when searching for posts mentioning Oregon and canopy. Just shows you how dangerous canopies can be, even on the ground.

377

Quote

Notre Dame Para-Foil trivia: About 25 yrs ago a young PhD was here on the northern Oregon coast doing some testing of a Notre Dame Para-Foil as a lifting device. They were setting up ( about 50 people involved in the testing ) and the young PhD was just walking around looking things over prior to the test that they had configured. Suddenly, the canopy caught air ( it can be very windy on the Oregon coast; this is why they chose the location ) and lifted off. There was quite a bit of line just sort of laying on the sand in a random manner, this line went from the canopy lines to whatever they were measuring with, and the PhD got one leg caught in this line and he was lifted, almost instantly, to about 150 ft in the air. And then he fell away from the lines to his death.

Just a goofy incident that ended tragically.

JerryBaumchen

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

Quote

I won't PM someone unless they ask me to, but somethings I can't and won't say in the forum. I thought if they didn't want the PM they were able to block it. SORRY didn't mean to step on anyones toes or ruffle any feathers. I have answered some questions and sometimes it required a PRIVATE answer. Won't make that mistake again.

I have NEVER asked you to PM me, about ANYTHING!

I HAVE ASKED YOU A THOUSAND TIMES TO STOP
PM ING ME! I HAVE ASKED PUBLICALLY MANY TIMES!

(others have done the same and you ignored them!)


LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE!

KAN
U
REED ?

[377 20]

Well, my Ghandi pitch hasn't worked. Jerry Springer is alive and well.

Let's get back to Cooper.

Mayfield seemed like a very good candidate, but he was eliminated, supposedly by a phone call that could not reasonably have been made by Cooper (1.5 Hours? after the jump time) . What else eliminated him? Could any of it have been faked? He was highly expert jumper, a convicted criminal and from all I have heard, a very clever person.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[goldwing 0]

Jesus Christo, can't this topic be buried once and for all!!!

You haven't lived until you've almost died"

[georger 197]

Quote

Well, my Ghandi pitch hasn't worked. Jerry Springer is alive and well.

Let's get back to Cooper.

Mayfield seemed like a very good candidate, but he was eliminated, supposedly by a phone call that could not reasonably have been made by Cooper (1.5 Hours? after the jump time) . What else eliminated him? Could any of it have been faked? He was highly expert jumper, a convicted criminal and from all I have heard, a very clever person.

377

Mayfield was discussed approx Jan-June 2008. Matt Meyers (sp?) was here and posted
extensively. Your first post on that topic did not happen until 4 March 2008; you were busy posting other things. Ckret finally posted Jun 13th saying:

Ckret JumpsLicenseIn sport : : :
Jun 13, 2008, 9:33 AM Post #2528 of 10336 (1442 views) Registered: Sep 7, 2007Posts: 522 Re: [Orange1] Scratching The Head [In reply to] Can't Post

Mayfield is subject #3 out of 1057 and yes a full investigation was conducted to include far more than fingerprint analysis.

You can find all the posts by entering
_Mayfield_ in the search line. That's all it takes -

[georger 197]

Let's get back to Cooper.

[georger 197]

Quote

Well, my Ghandi pitch hasn't worked. Jerry Springer is alive and well.
377

You aren't Ghandi !
And I'm not Jerry Springer !

Maybe that's your confusion.

[BruceSmith 3]

Mayfield is an interesting guy, Three-Seven-Seven.

I haven't read the Meyers posts, but I will. Thanks, Georger, for spelling out the dates.

I find Mayfield interesting because Ralph writes in Norjak that Mayfield was of 'invaluable help" in the FBI's investigation. (Or words to that effect.)

I'd sure like to know what that help was.

In addition, I'd like to hear from Ralph directly what his relationship with Mayfield is. I read, and forget at the moment exactly where, that Ralph and Mayfield had a negative run-in at Aurora State Airport prior to Nov. 24, 1971. It apparently had to do with unprofessional behavior by Mayfield concerning planes and jumpers.

Now, how does a guy like that become an asset to the FBI? Are G-men more comfortable with felons than they are with pesky journalists? Yes, we're certainly a lot more dangerous…so I understand the concern.

I called Mayfield to ask him about his role with the FBI and he hung up on me. I took the risk of totally alienating him and called him right back. He hung up again, but not before saying: "I always get in trouble when I talk about this."

As for the phone call to Ralph 90 minutes after the jump, I don't consider that any kind of alibi, even though Ralph has said it holds water for him.

One reason is that the Gossett and Dayton scenarios certainly portray a way where a phone booth could be reached well before the 1.5 hour mark. That's not to say Gossett or Dayton are DB Cooper, or that Danny landed in Oregon, only that their scenario shows how it is possible.

More compelling evidence is that Mayfield was much younger than eye witnesses pegged Cooper to be, and is much shorter.

But, there is something about Teddy that I find intriguing. From what I’ve read about Ted E Mayfield, why is a guy who has caused the deaths of several parachuting students, is legally banned from the skydiving industry and a convicted plane thief, and from his YouTube videos when he faced his negligent homicide charges quite confident and pugnacious, why the heck is he afraid of me?

Also, why does Mr. Meyers decline to respond to all outreach from me? He can't even engage a two-minute professional courtesy call? Bad manners, at the very least, bro', if you're reading.

But now that I know he has posted here, I'll try a PM.

It’s all a lot of “I ain’t talking to you” about a guy who didn’t have nuttin’ to do with nuttin’.

[377 20]

Quote

As for the phone call to Ralph 90 minutes after the jump, I don't consider that any kind of alibi, even though Ralph has said it holds water for him. One reason is that the Gossett and Dayton scenarios certainly portray a way where a phone booth could be reached well before the 1.5 hour mark. That's not to say Gossett or Dayton are DB Cooper, or that Danny landed in Oregon, only that their scenario shows how it is possible.

I agree about the phone call not ruling him out Bruce, but as you point out, the composite description is not a good match to Mayfield.

I wonder if Tina or Flo or the ticket agent were ever shown photos of Teddy M? In my experience in criminal law you would not believe how inaccurate some drawings and witness descriptions were.

Ted M was a MAJOR risk taker, with his own life and unfortunately also with the lives of skydiving students.

Still a person of interest in my book.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 20]

Quote

Quote

Well, my Ghandi pitch hasn't worked. Jerry Springer is alive and well.
377

You aren't Ghandi !
And I'm not Jerry Springer !

Maybe that's your confusion.

Well, if I can't foster tolerance, I'll take humor Georger.
You have been in good form on that front.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 20]

Scott wondered if Cooper was still aboard. Turning on the public address system, he inquired, ``Is everything all right, sir?''

``Yeah, everything is fine,'' Cooper replied.

Quote

After a while, Scott noticed that the cabin gauges were fluctuating wildly.

There are only two 727 "cabin gauges": temp and pressure, both on the flight engineer's panel not the pilots panel. The temp wouldn't fluctuate wildly and given that the plane was flying unpressurized, doubt if the pressure gauge would show wild movement over a large arc even when the door rebounded.

The flight engineer's panel is behind the co pilot and at a roughly 90 degree angle to the pilot's instrument panel. Very unlikely that either pilot would be looking at it.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

Quote

Scott wondered if Cooper was still aboard. Turning on the public address system, he inquired, ``Is everything all right, sir?''

``Yeah, everything is fine,'' Cooper replied.

Quote

After a while, Scott noticed that the cabin gauges were fluctuating wildly.

There are only two 727 "cabin gauges" temp and pressure, both on the flight engineers panel not the pilots panel. The temp wouldn't fluctuate wildly and given that the plane was flying unpressurized, doubt if the pressure gauge would show wild movement over a large arc even when the door rebounded.

377

You have to admit Scott's take on things
(caught many people's attention). We discussed this
before when Snow was here. His suddenly giving a talk
was unusual enough given his previous reluctance to
say anything that mattered - I think Snow & I had
the same impression; he was giving the Company
line with a few pointless embellishments all of which
added up to Big Fat 0 (right back where he started).
Kind of funny when you think about it. But, no doubt
it sets the Kiwanis (flight club it was) on fire. The
hero in the flesh. Saying everything and nothing.
Funny. Maybe Im missing something important but
it there is something important, it must be in code?

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

As for the phone call to Ralph 90 minutes after the jump, I don't consider that any kind of alibi, even though Ralph has said it holds water for him. One reason is that the Gossett and Dayton scenarios certainly portray a way where a phone booth could be reached well before the 1.5 hour mark. That's not to say Gossett or Dayton are DB Cooper, or that Danny landed in Oregon, only that their scenario shows how it is possible.

I agree about the phone call not ruling him out Bruce, but as you point out, the composite description is not a good match to Mayfield.

I wonder if Tina or Flo or the ticket agent were ever shown photos of Teddy M? In my experience in criminal law you would not believe how inaccurate some drawings and witness descriptions were.

Ted M was a MAJOR risk taker, with his own life and unfortunately also with the lives of skydiving students.

Still a person of interest in my book.

377

I think the fact he knew H resulted in
a very deep long term watch of Mayfield.. more than
the average person with no connections to FBI.
There is nothing worse than some insider pulling
a stunt and using LE to do it. LE tends to frown
heavily on that.

Mayfield was an easy target for Meyers and his
friend. They simply went way too far too fast..
turned out bad and I gather Meyer's friend is
gone (died near the end of the investigation)?
That's how it surfaced back in the WS forum.
That was sad.

But, you dont go after someone like Mayfield with
"light tackle" and publish it all before its even
done! That's No.1.

[georger 197]

I haven't read the Meyers posts, but I will. Thanks, Georger, for spelling out the dates.

[georger 197]

Quote

Scott wondered if Cooper was still aboard. Turning on the public address system, he inquired, ``Is everything all right, sir?''
377

This line caught my eye:
" She joined Scott and the co-pilot in the cockpit.
Later, the plane ran into turbulence."

Is this the same turbulence Bohan reported? Because,
it would be in the same general area (time frame)
that Bohan supposedly mentioned encountering
strong turbulence 4000ft higher . Timeframe is:
7:54 (Tina in cockpit) to ~8:12 (Oscillations) ...

Scott may be confirming Bohan's report?

But, notice also Scott uses this petard -7 below zero.
He never says Centigrade. He knows better! He's
charming the tribe.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Quote

But, notice also Scott uses this petard -7 below zero.
He never says Centigrade. He knows better! He's
charming the tribe.

Not in quotes (“ “) in the article as posted. I assume, not Scott’s words.

I agree he really embellished the story.

I agree with Bruce, if Anderson was seated, Scott could not see the Cabin Pressure Altitude gauges, if Anderson was standing (or comforting Tina) it would be very difficult for Scott to see the gauges.

Cousin Bruce/ 377,

The gauge in question is the “Delta” gauge (time rate of change of cabin pressure) a pressure altitude change of 10 feet in one-quarter second gives a “delta” of 2400 ft/min. See what I mean?

Sluggo_Monster (goofing off in Alamogordo, NM)

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Well, my Ghandi pitch hasn't worked. Jerry Springer is alive and well.

Let's get back to Cooper.

Mayfield seemed like a very good candidate, but he was eliminated, supposedly by a phone call that could not reasonably have been made by Cooper (1.5 Hours? after the jump time) . What else eliminated him? Could any of it have been faked? He was highly expert jumper, a convicted criminal and from all I have heard, a very clever person.

377

We had started to discuss Mayfield in the other thread - IIRC Awsee (Brenda) was the protagonist, but certain elements basically ran her out of town.

There is a conspiracy theory on another site that reckons H "owed" him and that his alibi is substantively provided by H, i.e. that was he was Cooper and H covered for him. I am not sure I buy this, for the same reasons that I generally don't buy conspiracies (secrets come out) but also I am not aware of anything in H's background that would point to him being a "bad cop". I admit though I have not done an awful lot of research into this. I agree with 377 that he is still a "person of interest" and certainly I think a far better candidate than Weber. I'd love to know exactly what all the other stuff was that Ckret referred to in eliminating him as a suspect.

Bruce, are you sure he is "scared" of you, or are you reading into that the same stuff Jo does when (in her opinion and her opinion only) Gerorger "reacts" to certain evidence? If I was Mayfield, given the background, I probably wouldn't be interested in talking to any reporters any more no matter who they were or what their angle was.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 20]

Quote

The gauge in question is the “Delta” gauge (time rate of change of cabin pressure) a pressure altitude change of 10 feet in one-quarter second gives a “delta” of 2400 ft/min. See what I mean?

You are referring to a cabin rate of climb type gauge which would indeed go crazy over a small but very sudden change in pressure.

Many but not all jets have these. Are you 100% sure that this model 727 had one? Some pax jets just had cabin altimeters and/or cabin differential pressure gauges which sensed the absolute (not time based) difference between outside and inside pressure. Neither were rate indicators.

It is amazingly simple to convert an altimeter into an altitude rate instrument. Just punch a tiny hole in the sealed aneroid chamber. In real rate of climb (or descent, they usually indicate either) an adjustable valve is used for fine calibration.

No matter what the gauge was, it was on the FE panel and I doubt if Scott was turned around backwards monitoring it during emergency IFR flying. He needed to be paying close attention to his own panel.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 20]

Since Mayfield and Ralph H knew each other, Mayfield would know that he would be the first person who Ralph would suspect after the hijack news got out. He would definitely want to minimize H's suspicion. I still think it would be very hard for Cooper to arrange making a phone call within 1.5 hours of the jump, but not impossible. Could someone else have made the call? Probably not. if he were going to use a stand in he'd likely have arrnaged to have the call made during the flight and before the exit, if there was a way to time it. There may not have been enough real time info on the news to pull it off.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

Quote

Since Mayfield and Ralph H knew each other, Mayfield would know that he would be the first person who Ralph would suspect after the hijack news got out. He would definitely want to minimize H's suspicion. I still think it would be very hard for Cooper to arrange making a phone call within 1.5 hours of the jump, but not impossible. Could someone else have made the call? Probably not. if he were going to use a stand in he'd likely have arrnaged to have the call made during the flight and before the exit, if there was a way to time it. There may not have been enough real time info on the news to pull it off.

377

I am sure dna ruled Mayfield out. To
me he doesnt remotely fit the phys. or psych. profile.
I think his calling H was a pure act of bravado and
self importance. Did all parachutists call in saying
"not me!"? I think in reality H was busy and only
Teddy was thinking, 'I need to call H and tell him its not me'. He's an over baked ham!

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

But, notice also Scott uses this petard -7 below zero.
He never says Centigrade. He knows better! He's
charming the tribe.

Not in quotes (“ “) in the article as posted. I assume, not Scott’s words.

Here is the turbulence passage from Snow's post.


snowmman
Jul 8, 2008, 11:02 PM
Post #3430 of 10119 (1277 views)
Registered: Mar 30, 2008
Posts: 2458
Re: [Mr.Nuke] Scott gave at least one talk (1997) [In reply to]

3) The information about turbulence being the reason Scott tried to contact Cooper on the PA (for the apparent 2005 exchange) is new. I've never heard turbulence being the reason before. In fact, this turbulence thing is weird. We were told about a "curtsy" or adjustment of trim needed. We all thought this was caused by the stairs. But now we're hearing about air turbulence.

I'm inclined to believe Scott here. But it seems like new info to me. Thoughts on this?
She joined Scott and the co-pilot in the cockpit. Later, the plane ran into turbulence.

Scott wondered if Cooper was still aboard. Turning on the public address system, he inquired, ``Is everything all right, sir?''

``Yeah, everything is fine,'' Cooper replied.

After a while, Scott noticed that the cabin gauges were fluctuating wildly.
(This post was edited by snowmman on Jul 8, 2008, 11:11 PM)

If Scott said the above, this confirms Bohan's report
of strong turbulence in the same area (including
severe cross winds at PDX which Bohan said he
filed a report on).

This means that turbulence was a factor during the period around jump. The FBI tests were not conducted in turbulence.

*There is NO mention of this turbulence in the NWA
or PI transcripts, at least none I can find.

Were flaps at 15* or 30* during this turbulence, as
Ckret has told us the pilot was trying to slow and
get stable for Cooper to jump?

And, quite frankly, Oscillations were not reported
in the FBI test. (Oscillations~Turbulence? There was
no turbulence during the FBI test) Then can we be assured the Bump was from Cooper leaving the
stairs only vrs. the plane dropping in turbulence
and the stairs slamming backup, with Cooper
already gone before this event?

Strong turbulence could change this whole equation.

If Scott's words are true, if Bohan's report is true,
then turbulence was a factor nobody has discussed
openly to date.

[Orange1 0]

not batting for mayfield, but to point out the obvious: until we know exactly where cooper landed, we can't say with certainty that he could not have made a phone call within 1.5-2hrs of landing (sluggo's site says 2 hours)
one thing i do agree with 377, getting an accomplice to make the call without knowledge of where the plane was would have been difficult - and remember the refuelling etc took a lot longer than expected so if the call was a prearranged time it would probably have been earlier. ...unless the paper bag contained a radio of some sort and that's what cooper was doing in the lavatory...

so, now are there any links between teddy and anyone doing those 727 jumps in nam... or do we go with 377's view that it would have been a very open secret among skydivers and the military (and mayfield had both connections).

edited to add: anyone know where Mayfield did his special forces duties? special forces was active in nam in 61-63, when acc to Sluggo he was in them.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.