DB Cooper

[Orange1 0]

looks like Cooper? yes/no? (georger will do best analysis no doubt, but don't spend too much effort!)
probably not, but this is someone who was given an alibi for a crime he was later proved to have committed (and wemt on committing further heinous ones).
(fwiw, he was lefthanded and had army service. born 1939. was a pilot. reputation as "great outdoorsman". again, i don't believe it is Cooper but just an example of how you can find suspects to fit even if you aren't really looking for them, which is how i came across this guy)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

thanks for the update Tom.

So how do we get Larry back in, if Larry would be the best added value?
What does he want?
Does he want anything from us?

I always figured it was because there was no longer anything we could contribute. i.e. he found out how to get it in other ways, like thru you. You've definitely added value.

(edit) Like people stay in bad marriages as long as they're getting something. Money. Sex etc. They leave when they can get it elsewhere, or don't need it any more.

I figured Larry wasn't getting anything he needed, anymore.
Fair Enough. Humans should act that way. It's rational.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

I always figured it was because there was no longer anything we could contribute.

Hmm, i heard otherwise, but let's not fall into the trap of admitting hearsay as evidence.

Tom, agree re Snow's comments - thanks for the update, look forward to more.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Tom Said:

"Even more if you know inside info that affects things politically like the fact H was not the lead agent on the job but got all the publicity."

That's been obvious for a while. I'm still surprised that guys like Sluggo still want to prop up people's reputations etc.

That's what creates politics, alll this "oh you have to listen to me, because I did some crap 20 years ago or whatever"

For something hard, you have to throw all that out. Everything is just data. Errors always come from wrong thinking by humans.
So inevitably, someone is going to be pissed off because they're wrong.

Rather than always worrying about whether someone got their ass kissed enough every day, it's a lot easier to just assume everyone is doing their best, and everyone, from top to bottom, can be very wrong.

When someone's wrong, just say "oh, well" and move on.

People have too much of ideas of self-worth tied up in being right.

Hell, just be right once in a while, and you're doing good enough.
Always TRY to be right.

[snowmman 3]

I was playing with using ABBY Finereader 8.0, an OCR (optical character recognition) package for converting images of text to text you can search etc. Started on the old transcripts but stopped.

Obviously Google has very good text recognition now with their newspaper stuff.

If Google had to solve this problem, first thing you would do is scan all the paperwork, Then create a searchable database.

i.e. think about creating the process for a 10 year project. Individuals don't matter as much as the process.
Since the documents age, scanning them is more important than ever.

One terabyte of disk storage only costs maybe $200 nowadays.

If Google can scan all the books they did, then ALL of the FBI transcripts can be scanned and OCR'ed and made searchable.

But then again, Larry doesn't need us :)

[georger 197]

Quote

Quote

You are not a a Monkey - you are a mean old Baboon. Go back to your jungle and maybe if we are all lucky the Apes will serve you to the Lions.

That sounds pretty close to a personal attack to me.

Old Ituri Forest legend (you know where I mean):

When you leave the forest dont mess with old lions. They can gum you to death!

[georger 197]

Quote

georger opined:

always seems that way to the novices -

novices opin.

• Quote

[snowmman 3]

when I read "active investigation", I immediately started up the wood chipper, since Larry had told us there was no FBI investigation going on, before. Which is best for removing fingerprints: muriatic acid and bleach, or brake cleaner?

http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_030609_lifestyle_D.B._Cooper_science.d9828e4.html

SEATTLE -- Huddled around rarely seen evidence spread out across the briefing room of the Seattle F.B.I. office, researchers say a new theory is emerging in the D.B. Cooper case.

"Well in D.B. Cooper, there was a fairly recent surprise," said Chicago metallurgist Alan Stone. Stone is referring to bits of metal found on some of the physical evidence from the 1971 hijacking, the only unsolved crime of its kind in U.S. history.

Stone is one of several researchers taking a new look at this old case, and debunking some old myths surrounding the case. Stone can’t get too specific, because he is part of an active investigation. But he will say, "It’s a surprise to find (the metal) where it is.

[georger 197]

Quote

when I read "active investigation", I immediately started up the wood chipper, since Larry had told us there was no FBI investigation going on, before. Which is best for removing fingerprints: muriatic acid and bleach, or brake cleaner?

http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_030609_lifestyle_D.B._Cooper_science.d9828e4.html

SEATTLE -- Huddled around rarely seen evidence spread out across the briefing room of the Seattle F.B.I. office, researchers say a new theory is emerging in the D.B. Cooper case.

"Well in D.B. Cooper, there was a fairly recent surprise," said Chicago metallurgist Alan Stone. Stone is referring to bits of metal found on some of the physical evidence from the 1971 hijacking, the only unsolved crime of its kind in U.S. history.

Stone is one of several researchers taking a new look at this old case, and debunking some old myths surrounding the case. Stone can’t get too specific, because he is part of an active investigation. But he will say, "It’s a surprise to find (the metal) where it is.

These are all sound-bites, taken out of context.
By themselves they mean nothing. I am surprised
you dont know that. But you dont have to take my
word for it, thank God!

At the same time you are missing the big story, ie
how the Transcripts were put together. That was
S.O.P. given technology at the time_ and you and
Jo thought it was just poor investigating with a
thick overlay of dishonesty!

Sluggo once mentioned "cultural goggles". It may
be you would learn more about the DB Cooper case
by reading: "Standard Investigative Practices in
Organizational Structures", by H. Dolittle.

Or, you could simply walk into the the music library
of the Kansas City City Band, and notice all the
file cabinets and thousands of files, and ask how
any music program gets put together, for any given night! Its an organisational mystery! I know firsthand.

Not much difference back in the day.

J. Edgar's favorite march was: "Stars and Stripes Forever" and he especially liked the piccolo part.
Dum dum dum dum duddle-ludle dum dum ...
You could see J Edgar's eye's light up and a smile
begin to form. Where's the piccolo part in the DB Cooper case? Maybe you could play it?

Its just that when considering evidence and truth
you might also want to consider the process and
the system that delivers it rather than running on auto-pilot screaming: "Those FBI morons didnt do
a good job blah blah blah".

But, I am not saying anything most of the
people here dont already know, and are mulling
over in silence.

You look at a map and think "map" and are
ready to calculate and criticize. I look at a map
and I think "system that brought it into being".
That's why I asked for the HISTORY of the map(s)
early, but got no reply or interest - and it was over
that very issue that Sluggo and I got to know each other off camera and I realised quite early, just as I had assumed, that a system created the map, not
the reverse.

Now! If you want to discuss Sr18 vs. Sr19 on the
Wahsougal side vs. Lewis side, that's another
matter. It still wont solve the riddle of carbonaceous
bacterial sediment from the Willamette, now will it?

That my friend is metallic vs nonmetallic and so general in nature as to be nonspecific and a sound
byte, while at the same time the process that delivered
maps is crucial - - - and the right people know that.

Byte away -

and you changing of avatars is pathetic.

[snowmman 3]

(see post above for how I think)

[Orange1 0]

well, i do find this interesting. There have been some of the recent-ish posts that I haven't read all of so I may have missed these bits before..

Quote

Enter the rubber bands. "We were able to find the original manufacturer of the rubber bands," explains Tom Kaye of Seattle’s Burke Museum. A paleontologist by trade, Kaye says there is no way the rubber bands, which held the money together, could have been in the water long enough to wind downstream.

"They told us that rubber bands only last in the wild 3 or 4 months at the most," Burke adds. "So this is in conflict with the idea that they would be rolling down the river for seven years," begging the question was the money there all along? Burke’s answer a simple, "maybe."

The scientists have been given unprecedented access to mountains of evidence. It is a new look at this old case, ....

the bit about the rubber bands - at least stated as fact based on the manufacturer's info - is news to me. i know there has been a lot of hypothesis on this done on the forum tho, most by Snow if i recall correctly (please don't get angry with me if it was someone else , a simple correction will suffice) - interesting to see some of the speculation here being borne out finally!

if we take them at face value, it seems the money either landed there in the first instance, or was kept protected and then put there. I see nothing that gives any indication if (or if it is even possible to find out if) the rubber bands around the money when found were the same as when it was handed to Cooper.

let's hope something interesting/concrete does actually come out of this 'new' angle. (even if certain people will believe all this is another attempt at discrediting them )

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

Orange1:

we've all talked a lot about rubber bands.

The real new angle though is not the rubber bands.

It appears to me there's a new willingness to reexamine the "clay layer" data and if there could be errors there.

I found an article way back that suggested the money could have been there from day 1. (edit) I even think it was quoting from Himmelsbach, way back when.

So having Tom reiterate that theory, implicitly requires reexamination of the "clay layer" data/theory.

Ckret presented that as ironclad. Tom is at least resurrecting the idea that it might not be.

Now: We don't have all the data. There are color pictures in the Vault, that I snapped from the videos. That's another bit of new data..that there is actually more that we've not seen.

So Tom has data we don't.

And Georger is able to process data in ways we can't.

But we can watch things unfold. And I can make avatars.

(edit) Note that along with my snaps from the most recent news vid, I made a post of what appeared to me to be two nice new photos of the bundles found in 1980. They were color photos. We've only seen color photos from snaps of 1980 vids, or recent photos of the Ingram bills. I'm assuming Tom is scanning all those cool photos there, in addition to the color photos of the dig after the money find.

(edit) attaching said pics again, in case people missed. There are no good closeups of the clay layer photos. We've never seen the clay layer report either.

[georger 197]

Quote

Thanks for the welcome, Georger, Snow, Sluggo, 377, et. al.

As for proving the existence of Capt. Bohan and his Continental flight, and whether his report of winds at 80 knots from 166 degrees is accurate, my focus is on the other side of the coin, namely, are Himmelsbach’s commentaries, in general, reliable?

Along those same lines, are Calame and Rhodes also reporting accurately? Is their description of the Himmelsbach – Capt. Scott chat about Woodburn correct? Ascertaining who is sharing reliable information is my first task. Yes, proving the wind direction and velocity would go a long ways to doing just that, but right now I’m taking a broader approach.

So, do I trust these two retired FBI agents, Himmelsbach and Calame? Yes. I give Himmelsbach, and Calame and Rhodes high marks for accuracy based on what I’ve read. Their work appears substantive, consistent and detailed, and it rings true to me, which is of course absolutely subjective on my part.

However, Calame got his skyjacker, which gives him enormous credibility in my view. Plus, his FBI team in Salt Lake City did a superb job finding McCoy’s whereabouts on Nov. 24, 1971. In addition, Calame’s subsequent efforts to determine the Cooper-McCoy connection are praiseworthy in my judgment.

As for the Ron and Pat Forman story, here’s my account of the central themes of their book: “The Legend of DB Cooper – Death by Natural Causes.”

In 1977, they met and befriended a woman named Barb Dayton, a fellow Cessna 140 pilot at Thun Field, just outside of Tacoma. After a year or so of flying together every weekend, Barb told them that she used to be Bobby Dayton, having received the first sex-change operation in Washington state in 1969.

Once the Formans recovered from that shock, Barb then told them that she was Dan Cooper, and began sharing the nitty-gritty of why and how she did the skyjacking.

Obviously, Barb reverted to her old persona of Bobby to do the job.

She survived the jump because she dove nine minutes after the pressure bump, landing in a hazelnut grove in Woodburn, Oregon. Barb says she triggered the pressure bump by descending to the bottom step to ascertain where Portland was by judging the glare of city lights in the clouds. Once she did that, she climbed back up, waited the nine minutes, confirmed her position by seeing the strobes of Aurora State Airport, and then jumped from near the top step. She knew the Mexico City destination would put her on Victor 23 and over Woodburn.

On the ground, she stashed the loot in an irrigation cistern that she knew about from having worked there as a young man. She donned her wig, put on woman’s clothing and returned to her life as a gal.

The Formans says that Barb did the skyjacking for therapeutic reasons, not the money. The sex-change operation hadn’t gone well. It had been very painful physically, and psychologically it had been a bust. As a result, she was suicidal, depressed, and broke; so she did the skyjacking as a way to re-build self-worth.

As therapy, the heist worked, because Barb was hired as a research librarian at the UW in Seattle one month after the hijacking.

In 1980, Barb said she had a dream in which the ink from the twenties was “floating away” so she retrieved the money and buried $5,800 at Tena’s Bar to “keep the story going.” Other than that, she never spent a dime of the ransom.

Barb’s profile fits many of the primary DB Cooper characteristics. Loner, desperate, knowledgeable pilot and parachutist. Rugged outdoorsman, and many years in and around the PNW. Bourbon, Raleigh’s, wore only loafers. Plus, she had been an explosive expert for logging and mining companies. She had a stint in the Army, many years in the Merchant Marine on ammunition ships, and she even fought for a time with the Moro tribesmen against the Japanese in the Philippines during WWII. During a gold prospecting trip, she spent eight days without food in the Yukon being chased by a grizzly.

As a pilot, she was fearless to the point of reckless. She had no real friends or family outside of her flying community. She spent Christmas Day sitting in her car next to her Cessna at Thun Field, refusing any and all invitations. Ron used to bring her a plate from his family’s table.

She gave her Cooper confession to a number of Thun pilots when she thought the statute of limitations had expired, but when she found they hadn’t, she recanted her story. Polaroids of her dressed as DB were so uncannily matched to the FBI composite sketch that one of her fellow pilots freaked out when he saw one, and tore it up so the feds wouldn’t think he was an accomplish by not turning her in.

Barb took her secrets and the whereabouts of the money to her grave in 2002 when she died of natural causes – pulmonary and cardiac – out in the deserts of Nevada.

Since then, the Formans have been on an epic quest to prove their friend was telling them the truth. All the wild stories of her life check out except for Cooper, and for that they need the FBI to match Barb’s DNA to the Cooper samples.

As far as I know, the feds haven’t done that, and it’s at this point that I entered the game.

I’ll ask Ron and Pat to join this conversation. I’m sure they’ll have a lot more to add about Barb Dayton.

I havent reply to this because I didnt know what
to say if saying anything is relevant -

I think I know where the Forman(s) are coming from and why they want to tell Barb's story. They were
impressed by Barb on a number of levels. There are
in fact, legendary figures in every venue. Solitary figures who stand out who depart from the norm.
Hermits with a story to tell and exploits some of which turn out real. A Watson Roland in the pre WWII lower SE Iowa-Missouri area. A Benny Ambrose in northern
Minnesota, Old Ray Phillips and Louis Shamy and
Sheknee Canoe (real name!) in northern Michigan
and north of Thessalon along the Mississagua ....
and when you get to Alaska there's an endless supply
of these people. All with exploits under their belts
and a legend ready to be made... journalists love
to try and make legends.

Of course the Formans have a few facts wrong;
facts that matter. Without the facts there is no
case.

What interests me more is the assumption it takes
someone of heroic status to fill Cooper's shoes.
Why do people continue to assume that when in
terms of the evidence Cooper was only an average
guy? I guess his exploit makes him singular.

Barb survived her exploits, as do most legendary figures, whereas Cooper may not have survived
his one-and-only exploit. Cooper may not be the
individual hero people wish him to be -

Have you ever noticed that when winter is going into
Spring it looks a little like Fall coming on? Everything
is all wet a mushy and heavy with a moderate temperature. And when Fall is coming on going into
Winter, it looks and feels a lot like Spring? A person
could get lost in this natural similitude if you didnt
have a clock and a calendar and a memory ...

Cooper is like that. People who want to be Cooper
are like that. People who dont want to be Cooper
are like that! It all gets rather confusing. (It takes
the shock of Snowboy's pathetic naked body flashing the field to shake us out of our stupor and restore the sense of who we are and where things are at - and of
course that is exactly the role Snowboy has devised
for itself!)

But Snowboy is not Cooper. Duane is not Cooper.
McCoy is not Cooper. Sluggo is not Cooper. You are
not Cooper. Jo in her wildest delirium is not Cooper.
And Barb was not Cooper either, anymore than Cooper
was Barb! (Think of it that way)

Would Cooper want to be Barb? What's your guess.

For two halves to join both halves must agree!

I will repeat that: For two halves to join both halves must agree!

That is something the Formans can relate to with respect to the Barb they knew. Barb would confirm this
is 100% true.

Barb had a deep seated inner conflict that was
terrible to live with. Her inner demon was very
specific. Silent and angry, disappointing, and no
answer ever coming from God to resolve it. Hijacking
an airplane would be TOO EASY FOR BARB! She would
not waste her time doing it!

Case closed.

[snowmman 3]

I'll post some quotes from the Barb book. I'm protected by copyright law, in the context of a book review.

Anyone who has the book can confirm the accuracy of my quotes.

Page 8

"As our friendship grew we became aware that besides her abilities as a pilot and mechanic, Barb seemed to have knowledge on a wide variety of subjects. No matter what topic arose she seemed to have something interesting to add to the conversation. Still, she was not a braggart and would often start her sentences with "Well, I don't know for sure, but .." or "I think I heard somewhere that ..." Sometimes after a stimulating discussion on a complex subject such as the making of the atomic bomb, the theories of electricity or the workings of a computer I would get out the encyclopedia to see if what she said was accurate. She always proved to be absolutely correct. I came to the conclusion that she must do a lot of reading, but she denied that to be true.

(ed. note. It is very unlikely that a research librarian would do a lot of reading. It is interesting she had no negative personality quirks, like being a braggart)

[snowmman 3]

page 39-40

"The dynamite had been real. According to Barb, "Nothing I've ever done was phony.". The zippered brown briefcase contained two five pound charges and a six volt battery. The detonator was in her pocket. The switch was a staple remover with wires soldered to it. She drew us a picture of how the dynamite was rigged"


(ed. note. I am very impressed by both the need to specify that the wires were soldered, and a staple remover was used. If she was still a man, there would have been a risk of penile injury with the staple remover, but she took care of that issue? I, myself, have run into people who solder, when faced with a switch issue, reaching over the table to get a staple remover.)

[skyjack71 0]

Another poster stated:

Quote

They talked about how some agents thought the magazines weren't processed properly. The author says Cooper was seen reading the magazines while they were circling Seattle, but unclear if that's true based on what Ckret said.

They said the prints found were unusable (which they expected) as Ckret said. They didn't mention getting prints off the magazines, although I think maybe the FBI guys were holding back, thinking maybe they did get something off the magazines.

---------------------------------------

I stated as a reply with the following:

Quote

I give up, the FBI will not listen to me and a lot of this is not in their "secret" files. For 13 yrs they have done nothing but try to discredit me.

I have been lied to by several individuals recently - How STUPID I am to allow myself to be used. One has deliberately tried to manuever me and for the most part was sucessful. The other is someone I trusted - but he lied to me and I trusted him. No one tells the truth anymore - everyone is out just for themselves and the FBI doesn't want this case solved.

----------------------------------

Georger posted:

Quote

Jo you really do need to stop relying on third and fifth party gossip handed down from morons. It gets you into trouble every time. You ran out of 1st hand reliable info 12 years ago, in Salt Lake City. This really has become shabby and crude!

TO ALL from Jo:
Lots of the information here is 3 and 5 party "gossip". Take for instance the part about the magazines Cooper supposedly was reading. I did not take that as a truth because I had never heard it before. I DID take that chance to put in my supposition regarding the books in my possession,

I do NOT know were those books came from or if he read them on the plane. I know they came into my home in 1990 and placed in plain site. I know that one of these books came out of the OR and WA area - "due to the contributor population". I know one of the books has water damage on the lower quarter (the book with the pic in it). I know he was protective of these books because I used one of them for a specific purpose and he asked me to be careful with this book...do NOT even ask what the purpose was - because I will not tell anyone at this time.

I take information (true of false) as it come thru the media or the fourm or elsewhere and process it with the things I have and with the memories I have of my time with Duane and that trip. This should not be something to discredit me with, but doing exactly what everyone else does to prove or disprove something I know or have knowledge of.

To do this I have to make suppositions and wait for the feed back...for example the information about the magazines - my chance to theorize how and why those books meant so much to him. I do not know where those books came from, but my goal is to find out if they have anything to do with Cooper.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Hi Jo,

You said Cooper had both of these books on the plane? So the water damage is apparently from the jump or landing?
Any theories on how the books were carried on the jump? Can they be stuffed in a raincoat?

I thought you only saw Duane reading one book while you knew him (the Norjak book). Did he never read these books?

Also, what were you trying to use the books for?

You must have looked inside the books for a copyright date to get a hint of when they were printed. How much before 1971?
Or are they not printed material? Maybe a journal of some kind.
Still, some dates might be inside. Which?

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Hi Jo,
You said Cooper had both of these books on the plane? So the water damage is apparently from the jump or landing? Any theories on how the books were carried on the jump? Can they be stuffed in a raincoat?

If the raincoat was the kind I think it was - yes, some of the pockets would have been large enough in those days to put these books in - also they are flexible, but do not appear have been bent much at any given time.
=========================

Quote

I thought you only saw Duane reading one book while you knew him (the Norjak book). Did he never read these books?

Your answer lies within the question. No this is not a riddle.
I only saw Duane READ one book while I knew him (the Norjak book). He possessed these books and at one time he may have been interested in them to pass the time while on the plane.

Before I mentioned this - the title on one specific book would have been reason enough for Duane Weber to have put the book in his hands and gone thru it.
The title was associated with a strong memory of his childhood.
=======================

Quote

You must have looked inside the books for a copyright date to get a hint of when they were printed. How much before 1971?
Or are they not printed material? Maybe a journal of some kind.
Still, some dates might be inside. Which?

There are NO copyright dates in these. Yes, they are printed material and the most important one is the smaller book with a gold cover and black binding comb - this one had the picture in it and with the water damage. This one book seems to be much older than the larger book.

The thicker book appears to be a 1960's book...due to some references in it.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[1969912 0]

So what are the titles of the books?

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[skyjack71 0]

Geeze - after that post on Barb Drayton - I guess you aren't a Baboon after all. A Baboon gets tempermental when confronted - chattering endlessly and doing irrational things - like me. I will say it before you do.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[nitrochute 2]

" jumped from near the top step" ..........hmmm i think i have to call bullshit on that one. he,she,or it,would have hit the rest of the stairs.

[snowmman 3]

So if you didn't see Duane reading these books, then perhaps he read them on the plane, and already knew the contents.

Did he write in these books?

It's interesting they never got bent.

I would have expected he would have buried them with the money, rather than take them with him on the escape. Maybe they were buried with the money for a while?

But if he buried them with the money, then how did he retrieve them, since he forgot where most of the money was buried.

Maybe he buried them with some of the money, the part he retrieved and threw away. But why not throw away the books?

Very confusing. Maybe the confusion is an indication that they may have a lot of encoded information by their very presence.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

" jumped from near the top step" ..........hmmm i think i have top call bullshit on that one. he,she,or it,would have hit the rest of the stairs.

Hi nitrochute. (I didn't even catch that. Good catch)

I tried to point out to people that the Barb thing is nonsense. I have the ebook. But since the journalist is here, and apparently in close contact with the people promoting this book, and it's a new book and they apparently are trying to boost sales, I didn't want to post word for word too much of what's in it.

Suffice it to say, if you guys read it, you'd say "whuffo".

I posted two verbatim quotes above that give you a feel for the tone of the book. The bomb description is clearly wrong, and should be enough for people to not worry about Barb's confession.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

So what are the titles of the books?

That Question I will not answer until I sit down with the witnesses Tina and Florence..behind closed doors. Since one of the individuals is supposedly upset with me per - Jerry Thomas - I may never get that opportunity.

I NEVER revealed to anyone how to contact Tina and supposedly someone contacted her thru information only I had - I did NOT provide or make available that information to anyone in all of these yrs. Perhaps that was part of Jerry's break Jo down tactics - like telling me I was lieing with every answer I gave him or told him.

Jerry claimed that I was the one who said the pic of the little girl was Tina - and that is why she was upset with me. I didn't say that - Sluggo did. I was curious if it was her but didn't claim it was Tina.

I do hope that T. Kaye DID contact my witness in WA to verify that I did not lie about the places or the things I saw on my 2001 trip to WA.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[1969912 0]

Quote

That Question I will not answer until I sit down with the witnesses Tina and Florence..behind closed doors....

Is that likely to be the case in the near future?

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG