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quade

DB Cooper

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I was looking at this graphic on
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-02-05-plane-splashdown_N.htm
that showed flight 1549 (sully) and thought it was a nice graphic for the information. (musing about something similar for Flight 305)

they referenced Google Earth and flightaware.com
I've mentioned flightaware.com before for their live flight tracking.

There's two nice pages there.

weather at sea-tac
http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KSEA/wx
weather at pdx

it's interesting to see how surface wind shifts during the day..especially if the wind is light (<11 knots?) ...I wonder if we should take the historical PDX "wind direction" with a grain of salt? i.e. 11/24/71.

It does seem to confirm what the wind rose probability chart has been telling us..SE winds common

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KPDX/wx/

This next page is interesting because it shows little red dots for all flights in the air in the US. A series of pics shows how flight density changes during the day.

It also shows how the NW is relatively light on flight density (as to be expected)
http://flightaware.com/analysis/map_day.rvt

Hmm...actually it shifts during the day...i.e. the density shifts east to west. I guess that's to be expected....follows the sun a bit.

Amazing the detail on each flight...live tracking!

It looks like "right now" there's a CRJ-700 Canadair Regional jet
in flight from PDX to Sea Tac. Horizon Airlines. 108 miles to go (20 miles out). 21 minutes left.

Going 331 knots. Altitude is 15700 feet.
but it says "BTG OLM OLM6 " for route?
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/QXE552/history/20090205/2211Z/KPDX/KSEA

(edit) I snapped the live track page for that flight and attached it since it's going to disappear when the plane lands soon.

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quote]that tree is probably over 3000 lbs dry. We don't know how far it travelled though. Do big things travel differently than small..dunno?

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Me neither. Just illustrating that water was the transport
mechanism for some of the money.
Earlier, people kept opposing that theory.
Just empirical thought, if you live near a river, you see
it all the time.

Assessing our facts.
- The money find is our only rigid fact.
- Exit point still has a range of conjecture.

The money was found in, or near the river, depending on what flood stage we
are speaking about.

To be transported by water, it had to be:
- in the watershed or the river.
- it didn't float upstream, against the current.

(Note - DBC could have landed downstream if he
lost the money on exit and the money was blown
to its resting point, while the wind carried him further.)

Logically, the money wasn't 10 miles from the river, in a field.

Let's say, 100 yds on either side of the river or a tributary - essentially, the flood plane.
Outline that box.

Figure the max wind drift of the canopy:
From the probable exit point, figure the drift of a round
with the max wind estimate.
Draw the suspected drift cone and get a trapezoid effect.

Figure the max wind drift of the cash bag, as if lost on exit:
From the probable exit point, estimate the drift of a bag
with the max wind estimate. (Cutaway free bags
don't go that far and the cash bag was not aerodynamic)
Draw the suspected drift cone.




======================

:)
:)What some of you fail to see - is if the money was "buried" near a tree near the river, but not in the usual flood plain - a major flood or developement could dislodged that tree and the booty buried near it - also the growth of a small tree in 1971 to 1980 when the money was found could have invaded the "package or container".

B|In your eagerness to put Cooper or the money in the water you are failing to see other possiblilites.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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looks like a building of some sort to me.



Okay nitrochute, this is zeroing in on the blue object and cars by the apparent money find location (I was using the circled area in the photos provided by the FBI, to pinpoint the probable money find area. I should revisit that for accuracy)

In any case, two images in this pic.

Top shows many obvious cars parked at the Y.
(fishermen?), from July 26, 2005.

Bottom from Sept 17, 2002 shows no cars, and the blue object.
However, here, the blue object is not "in the water" like the last pic I showed. It's up on the beach (i.e. the waterline is low in this pic.

added another pic that has the May 2002 image too, since it's the clearest of the blue thing. But cars are fewer (some on the right?)



I WAS there in MAY of 2001 - THOSE pictures do NOT look like the place I was taken to - DID the house get torn down between 2001 and 2002??????

I am questioning those pictures - have you gone there in-PERSON. Surely things do not look that different in person than they do from the air.
THEN GO.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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happythoughts said:

"Figure the max wind drift of the canopy:
From the probable exit point, figure the drift of a round
with the max wind estimate.
Draw the suspected drift cone and get a trapezoid effect.

Figure the max wind drift of the cash bag, as if lost on exit:
From the probable exit point, estimate the drift of a bag
with the max wind estimate. (Cutaway free bags
don't go that far and the cash bag was not aerodynamic)
Draw the suspected drift cone."

I thought we already went thru all this.

1) we don't agree on wind speeds or wind direction.
2) we don't agree on exit point
3) I went thru a scenario to lead to a 8 mile drift, but it was assuming some pretty high winds..probably fantasy
4) If you pick a more reasonable drift (3-4 miles?) then nothing makes sense.

I guess I'm not sure what the suggestion is, in terms of what to do.

You can draw a 3-4 mile radius circle around the flight path, the whole way, to account for uncertainty in wind direction and it still doesn't make sense.

We have to discount some testimony to allow cooper to jump/nopull into the columbia around PDX.

I don't think it's a question of caclulating anything. We've been thru that.

Happythoughts: pick ANY behavior that leads to the money at Tena Bar. I think we have to work backwards. Working forwards hasn't gotten us anything people will agree works.

Am I missing something?

(hey p.s. I didn't even get good feedback when I was calculating the descent rate of a C-9 for cooper. I thought I ended up closer to 1200 ft/min.)

HEY: here's a thought.

I was calculating drift time, using the descent rate of a canopy in no-wind. But now that I think about it, that doesn't seem right.
The canopy will act differently in high wind? (I'm thinking of the extreme case of the horizontally deployed canopy out of the 727)

So: the question is: for a C-9 in high wind, does it's descent rate change? Or is it the same as it is in no-wind. Heck if you get some wind blowing up into the chute, I would think you get a lift effect? Has anyone ever felt like they descended slower? (not just talking about horizontal velocity due to wind)

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I WAS there in MAY of 2001 - THOSE pictures do NOT look like the place I was taken to - DID the house get torn down between 2001 and 2002??????

I am questioning those pictures - have you gone there in-PERSON. Surely things do not look that different in person than they do from the air.
THEN GO.



JO HERE"S SOME CAPITALS FOR YOU SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE

Those pictures are perfect. There is absolutely no way they misrepresent what's there.
The only question is where to look.
I posted a lot of pictures. I don't really know what you're talking about.

Here's a question for you: There are a number of large metal roof buildings, and one normally shingled (composition?) building. Do you agree that the Fazio's "home" was not metal roofed?

Also: I can estimate the sq footage of that home.

If your memory is so great: give me the dimensions of the Fazio home (estimate). I can verify.

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I was surprised by georger's mention of clay in rubber bands then. But he's right about fillers.
did some searching.

http://www.cec.com.my/faq.htm

Q1: What is rubber band made of?

Main material is "rubber", usually natural rubber, but some types of synthetic rubber are also used to obtain certain specific quality depending on the application. Besides, fillers such as calcium carbonate, carbon black, clay and additives like sulfur, stearic acid, zinc oxide, wax, oil, accelerators are mixed into rubber as ingredients.

Reply> Think about a molecule of 'rubber band'
and bonding of similar molecules which achieves the properties of cohesion, strectch, etc . Latex, clay (carbon), sulfur. The weak link that ages is at the bonds (sulfur-clay/carbon). The carbon and sulfur are broken down and absorbed, atomically. This leaves a residue of gooey sticky stuff, the latex.
(Just as the breakdown of rubber bands used in
this case is described, ie. 'gooey stuff on the paper
hard to remove'). But, the rubber bands as a working
molecular entity are long gone. It takes 1-3 years,
maybe 5 if protected, and less than 1 year if exposed to UV which converts (breaks down) the
carbon and sulfur atomically . . .

This is basic textbook chemistry.

So, we have timelines:

(a) timeline of bands breaking down -
(b) timeline on paper decomposition & artifacts of.
(c) timeline of dredging operation in '74.
(d) timeline of conveyance and distribution to
a specific site, Tina Bar .. all from a specific
desposit point (where he or money landed).
(e) timeline on discovery after which nothing will
ever be found.
(f) timeline on storage consistet with the facts of
the money's condition whcih can still have
money present at Tina Bar away from the
original flight path . . .

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I've attached the overhead shot of what I believe is the Fazio "home" as opposed to farm buildings

The roofline appears to be 34'x36'
Probably single story.
Chimney is on the South side.
Looks like the main used door is on the West side (towards the river)


I zoomed out and attached overall.jpg so you can see it's location relative to the metal roofed buildings.

Tell me what's wrong in these assumptions relative to the pictures, Jo.

The money find location is in overall.jpg, based on Ckret's aerial shots and the circles on them. It's approximate, my guess is within 200 feet.

(edit) If you follow the gravel/dirt road, I get 760 feet from Fazio's house to the money find.

Line of sight/sound, I get 670 feet.

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"But, the rubber bands as a working
molecular entity are long gone. It takes 1-3 years,
maybe 5 if protected, and less than 1 year if exposed to UV which converts (breaks down) the
carbon and sulfur atomically"

Is Oxygen more important? This patent is talking about some specific rubbers, but it argues that Oxygen is a primary requirement. (and by removing it, aids preservation)

Look at US Patent 5885524
Method of Preserving Rubber Products

http://www.google.com/patents?id=7ZIYAAAAEBAJ&printsec=description&zoom=4

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Here's a question for you: There are a number of large metal roof buildings, and one normally shingled (composition?) building. Do you agree that the Fazio's "home" was not metal roofed?

Also: I can estimate the sq footage of that home.

If your memory is so great: give me the dimensions of the Fazio home (estimate). I can verify.



If Jo doesnt know I can show that photo to several
people and get the answer quickly - Jo isnt isnt the
only dog thats ever been to the Fazios, not by a
longshot! I know poeple who were in business with them.

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Here's a question for you: There are a number of large metal roof buildings, and one normally shingled (composition?) building. Do you agree that the Fazio's "home" was not metal roofed?

Also: I can estimate the sq footage of that home.

If your memory is so great: give me the dimensions of the Fazio home (estimate). I can verify.



If Jo doesnt know I can show that photo to several
people and get the answer quickly - Jo isnt isnt the
only dog thats ever been to the Fazios, not by a
longshot! I know poeple who were in business with them.



Sure. We're guessing about which building is actually the home (now that I'm curious I'm going to look for more info).
Since there are a lot of farm buildings, it is a good question.
But all the farm buildings appear to be metal roofed. So the non-metal roof building does seem like the home.

Also notice all the cars parked around it.

I can't believe Jo can't accept that you don't have to go someplace anymore, to get real accurate data.

In the Google Earth photo of my house, you can see my son outside. It's from summer 2007..very recent. And it's correct because you can see things I changed in 2006.

We were saying we should leave a sign on the grass for the google satellites. People are actually doing that, in different places around the world.

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The satellite view in Google maps (browser based) seems to have the same vintage data as Google Earth. (edit) This is cool, GE used to have better, but maybe no more.

So you can look and zoom/pan around without installing GE.

Here's the link, centered on the Fazio house I'm talking about:

http://maps.google.com/maps?&oe=utf-8&ie=UTF8&split=0&gl=us&ei=PomLSbT8FYHwsAOS1MmjBQ&ll=45.716019,-122.757986&spn=0.000697,0.000841&t=h&z=20

(edit) If you pan a little to the SE, you can see he's got a green John Deere tractor? And a lot of sand? trucks there to the N.

(edit) Nice pic of Mt. St. Helens from Vancouver Lake. Didn't realize it looked so big from there! has snow on it in this pic. (even though summer at Vancouver Lake?)
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/3058369

(edit) another view of the floating houses in Caterpillar Slough
(with location on google maps for reference

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/11796597

(edit) a nice panoramic shot showing the scale of vancouver lake with location on google maps for reference
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/1894309

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Is Oxygen more important? This patent is talking about some specific rubbers, but it argues that Oxygen is a primary requirement. (and by removing it, aids preservation)



Short answer YES. Less O2 longer storage life.
More O2 and especially O+ (as in UV situation)
shorter lifetime to the molecular bonds and
the latex begins forming crystals. Literally dries
out, as it were, a reverts to a crystalline state.

You posted the paper preservation article long ago
but it explained the phenominon in water burial.
Cold low oxy water best. Would preserve everything
longer especially if blocks of money are encased in sediment keeping oxygen away.

If we could put Cooper's corpse in the slough even
at the south end of Catapillar Island, I could buy this whole scenario of Tina Bar, and the discovery of remnants 10 years later right at Tina Bar. You would expect exactly that ... or nothing, ie. everything
decayed and washed out into the Columbia and gone.

But! Tosaw etal explored and dragged this whole area immediately after Feb 1980 and found NOTHING. My impression is Tosaw was greatly surprised at this negative result... because he was
connecting Tina Bar with Catapillar Island also.

Is it possible the currents are so stiff at Catapillar
Island that by 1980 only a remnant of cash was
left, and upstream at Tina Bar? That may be what's
going on.

The river bed photos you posted at Catapillar Island
are remarkably clean of debris, to me. Your friend at
Catapillar Island would definately have an opinion
about all of this -

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The canopy will act differently in high wind? (I'm thinking of the extreme case of the horizontally deployed canopy out of the 727)

So: the question is: for a C-9 in high wind, does it's descent rate change? Or is it the same as it is in no-wind. Heck if you get some wind blowing up into the chute, I would think you get a lift effect? Has anyone ever felt like they descended slower? (not just talking about horizontal velocity due to wind)



Snow,

From my canopy (and one balloon flight) experience and what I remember from my physics classes there is no difference in canopy performance in high or low winds once the canopy relative speed imparted by freefall or plane exit bleeds off. After that, you cannot tell if you are in zero wind or high wind as the canopy is drifting with the wind. You can see this effect riding in a hot air balloon. You can be in a high wind but there is no wind relative to the balloon. Near terrain you get turbulence and flow gradients that disturb things, but at a high altitude AGL in a steady wind you'd have no differences in canopy performance over a zero wind condition.

If I am wrong, chime in. Pilots frequenly debate a similar question and get pissed off at each other arguing. They argue about whether you lose more altitude (or have a higher stall speed) in a downwind turn than an upwind turn. I say they are the same if you are talking about airpseed, not ground speed.

In thermals or other updrafts you can go up under an inflated canopy. I have done that a few times.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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"The river bed photos you posted at Catapillar Island
are remarkably clean of debris, to me. Your friend at
Catapillar Island would definately have an opinion
about all of this - "

I don't think he labelled each pic exactly on location.
He lived there, so you would think it would be "close"

He did remark on his web page that the Columbia was pretty much the same everywhere in his travels.

So while that's all a little fuzzy, I think it does suggest the photos are representative, at least of the main Columbia area.
We don't have any better info, in any case.

The Caterpillar Slough might be slightly different, since there is hardly any water velocity there?

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the money bag may have travelled like neither logs nor sand.

I've read about how bottles collect in eddies. That must mean they travel along the river bottom.

The money bag may have travelled along the relatively clean river bottom.

If so, it's likely it would move in the high velocity channel..(i.e. if it's moving, then it is more likely to be in high velocity)

So that might help point to "why Tena Bar"...you needed a high velocity channel that whacks up against a beach...for the money bag to travel along the bottom. (like bottles, say)

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Sluggo highlighted this a while back from the waymarking site.
georger's questions recently about debris ON Tena Bar just reminded me of it.

Someone supposedly walked on Tena Bar, and took this photo

http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=34aa42a3-7aa7-4874-8d5c-81786362f858

I just looked at it again, and there's some big driftwood on it.

This is the sign and gate photo. I think with the recent GE images, I might be able to identify the location of this sign and gate

http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=f0a705e8-d63a-4600-a4e6-9ae7febe4b12

I think the gate is the center here in Google Maps
i.e. 45.716817,-122.75964

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=45.716817,-122.75964&sll=45.716817,-122.759648&sspn=0.000601,0.000841&gl=us&ie=UTF8&ll=45.716817,-122.75964&spn=0.000601,0.000841&t=h&z=20&iwloc=addr

In fact, I think the bench you can see in the distance in the waymarking Tena Bar sign photo, is visible here in Google maps
(I've got a label near it)
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=45.717104,-122.75969&sll=45.717104,-122.75969&sspn=0.000574,0.000841&gl=us&ie=UTF8&ll=45.717104,-122.75969&spn=0.000574,0.000841&t=h&z=20

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That is not how it looked in 2001.
The house was oblong and the front of the house faced the road not the river. The backyard was large had a fence around it.
The parking lot was to the East of the house - at least 100 yds. The parking lot was there about 120 yds from the house - it was gravel - it was a small lot. You walked toward the river in the parking lot and there was a gate. Thru that gate was a roadway or walk way down to the river. From the gate area it was much higher than the river - you could look down at at the tree line and the lower fence. Then past the fence and the tree line several feet away was the river. It was obvious the river had been up to the fence line.

Himmelsbach asked him about a flood and the water. I don't remember the man's answer or if I paid attention. I cannot swear to what the answer was so I won't try.

What I do know is that the picture I just looked at IS not the Fazion home that was there in 2001 and the demographics are different. Remember I was raise on a farm.
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i agree with 377. but if i recall , the canopy cossey supplied in the nb6 was unmodified(?). if that is the case, the canopy will oscillate quite a bit. and that could could affect rate of descent.it could even change the direction the canopy is drifting in to some degree(mostly in VERY lite to no wind conditions)

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I give up - this is what Snowmman and Georger were sent here to do - to bury the truth in so much technology that no one would ever see the truth. Those pictures of the Fazion home are not as they appeared in 2001. There were buildings to the East of the parking lot - but back further from the river - there were trucks there.

The road went in front of the Fazio Home - not beside it or behind it.
By infront I mean to the north of it. I did not have a compass with me so I don't know if it was directly North (as I am sure someone will pipe and and say that the river was xx from xx from xx and North of this or that.

A couple of yrs ago a friend went out to the Fazio farm and told me that things had changed a lots.

I have to assume that a new home was constructed since 2001 and that the road has changed. Also that more and new buildings have been built.

If you want to contradict my word use a map made prior to May of 2001.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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I give up - this is what Snowmman and Georger were sent here to do - to bury the truth in so much technology that no one would ever see the truth.



Ah, now we have "technology" included in the Great Conspiracy Theory to Hide The Truth? Does Google Earth know they have been co-opted, do you think?

Jo, I don't know a single person who has looked at something on Google Earth that they know and said it was wrong - but thre are sometimes changes in things depending on when the images were captured. Even down here, our house, our dropzone etc are all there and all accurate. Are you sure you went to the place you think you did? Are you sure your memory is accurate?
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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In the Google Earth photo of my house, you can see my son outside. It's from summer 2007..very recent. And it's correct because you can see things I changed in 2006.

We were saying we should leave a sign on the grass for the google satellites. People are actually doing that, in different places around the world.



or a LOST sign on the roof, like one of my sons
had for a while!

If Jo doesnt come with an ID I will email the Fazio photo for id.

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the money bag may have travelled like neither logs nor sand.

I've read about how bottles collect in eddies. That must mean they travel along the river bottom.

The money bag may have travelled along the relatively clean river bottom.

If so, it's likely it would move in the high velocity channel..(i.e. if it's moving, then it is more likely to be in high velocity)

So that might help point to "why Tena Bar"...you needed a high velocity channel that whacks up against a beach...for the money bag to travel along the bottom. (like bottles, say)



if the money (in a bag?) rolled up on a beach
something had to restrain it from washing back in ....
I am still completely unclear where on the beachfront the money was. Ckret's penciled circles
are close to the water's edge, just as Denise's
mother said ???

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I give up - this is what Snowmman and Georger were sent here to do - to bury the truth in so much technology that no one would ever see the truth.



It is kind of unbelievable that Jo thinks her foggy memory is something people should just believe. I mean my guess at the house might be wrong. There are a lot of buildings there.

But there's no way we're wrong on the location. There is a building up right near the main road, but I don't think that's the "home". It doesn't appear there is a separate address for home vs the Fazio sand operation. Both use 12112 NW Lower River Rd. Vancouver, WA.

Just reviewing everything:

first: what I'm calling a cow feeding area in that field:

Okay looking at the '70 and '74 Ckret photos, the apparent cow feeding area in the field right next to the money find location, isn't there yet. In the '79 photo, it is there.

But the '90 GE image is more clear, and doesn't have it..maybe it was temporary. By 2002 the images are a lot better, and it's obviously a cow feeding station. In fact looking at it again, it almost looks like both fields used for cows near the Columbia, have runoff areas to collect water/waste before it can hit the Columbia?

2) The new building that's just east of this field. It wasn't there in '71.

The 2000 GE image has it.
That new building is the reference point for the money find location. It appeared sometime between 1990 and 2000. It wasn't in the 1990 pic or Ckret's pics.


3) What building is the Fazio home? There's some buildings up farther N by the cow field past the N sand operation. But they're metal roofed, and I don't see any cars there. Don't think that's the home. Unless maybe the actual home is farther up the road and on the other side of the road. There's a house up there.


4) Correlating everything:
We were initially saying the money was found a little more South on the beach, closer to where the channel comes out around caterpillar island.

I revised it up N a bit, just past the sand operation, based on Ckret's photos that had circles in what appeared to be the right place (all 3 photos had circles in close to the same area).

Ckret never ID'ed the circles, I think just cause he didn't know.
But they were very likely the precise money find location.

I had zoomed in and compared all 3 to the current GE and created the montage.

Georger posted that montage again just recently. The metal roofed houses are East of that. The one metal roofed building in the rectangular field is used as a reference. (what I called the "new" building that appeared between 1990 and 2000.)

My ID of the location of the gate and the bench, from the feet on the ground picture of the Tena Bar sign and bench, I think is accurate.

I'm not sure what else I could do.

When you punch "12112 NW Lower River Rd., Vancouver, WA" into google, it gives a location centered in a field just E of the Sand operation driveway. I think that fuzziness is just because it's such a rural location. not as precise address ->lat./long as google typically does.

Okay I'll compare some online geocoders for 12112 NW Lower River Rd, Vancouver, WA
using this site/url
http://stevemorse.org/jcal/latlon.php?cookie=&hidden=&doextra=&time=1233900191647&addr2latlon=1&address=12112+NW+Lower+River+Rd&city=vancouver&state=wa&zip=&country=US&latlon2addr=0&latitude=&longitude=


Google: 45.71353 -122.752697
terraserver: 45.71478000 -122.75654300

The terraserver lat/long is just about dead on, for the driveway off the main road. I attached a snap showing that location.

The google lat/long for that address is off E a bit in the field, as I say.

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Sluggo highlighted this a while back from the waymarking site.
georger's questions recently about debris ON Tena Bar just reminded me of it.

Someone supposedly walked on Tena Bar, and took this photo

http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=34aa42a3-7aa7-4874-8d5c-81786362f858

I just looked at it again, and there's some big driftwood on it.

This is the sign and gate photo. I think with the recent GE images, I might be able to identify the location of this sign and gate

http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=f0a705e8-d63a-4600-a4e6-9ae7febe4b12

I think the gate is the center here in Google Maps
i.e. 45.716817,-122.75964

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=45.716817,-122.75964&sll=45.716817,-122.759648&sspn=0.000601,0.000841&gl=us&ie=UTF8&ll=45.716817,-122.75964&spn=0.000601,0.000841&t=h&z=20&iwloc=addr

In fact, I think the bench you can see in the distance in the waymarking Tena Bar sign photo, is visible here in Google maps
(I've got a label near it)
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=45.717104,-122.75969&sll=45.717104,-122.75969&sspn=0.000574,0.000841&gl=us&ie=UTF8&ll=45.717104,-122.75969&spn=0.000574,0.000841&t=h&z=20




I cannot get Google up tonight - must be having
problems. You last link to Catapillar provides a
superb all-around view. And a new thought struck.

If in a flood (like a tidal surge) there was significant
outward pressure to the sides of the main channel,
then an object entering the right side flow after the
curve might actually 'bankshot' up against and ride
along the outside shoreline of Catapillar island ...
and be piped by this action right onto Tina Bar. ?

I have focused on the inside channel at Catapilalr Isle before - now Im focusing on the outside edge
as a pressure route to Tina Bar ?

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"I have focused on the inside channel at Catapilalr Isle before - now Im focusing on the outside edge
as a pressure route to Tina Bar ? "

That makes sense. I think I remember seeing nav charts from the '70s, and it was deep right by Tina Bar back then also. Note it's not deep by Caterpillar Island.

What's interesting is that they label the main "channel" as on the west side of the river still in this area. They label the east side of the river "anchorage"

Note where they label the "Morgan Turn"
Maybe that's the key point where the water flow turns.
(attached)

But the depth of the water, so close to shore, must be an indication of high velocity water?

I think that's what's interesting. The water flow just off Tena Bar, is different than the water flow just off Caterpillar Island.

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