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Orange1 0
Unless someone is feeding the fat lady while she is waiting in the wings, I fear she will be positively skeletal when (and if) she ever gets onstage.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
snowmman 3
Since I downloaded the latest GE, I figured I'd post some pics.
Georger likes cows, so there's some on that.
I id'ed some possible things that I wasn't clear on before in the area.
And I have a river flow possibility that suggests a location on the other side of the river where stuff may have landed on shore (cooper?), theorizing about how river flows work when the river meanders.
There is imagery from 1990 but it's b/w and fuzzy, so not including it, because no extra value
1) Fazio Sept 17 2002. Shows cows in South yard (picture right because E is top of picture) near the money find. Also note what I think is a cow feeding station.
2) Here's a picture of another cow feeding station farther N on the Fazio property. It looks identical to the one I labelled in 1)
3) This image from May 2002 is only slightly before the 1) photo, but it appears to show runoff collected W of that cow yard (the white "froth?"...) I've labelled my supposition. It's not "frothy" in other pics.
4) The July 26 2005 pic is interesting because I think it shows vehicles? on the beach, S of the money find, by the red roofed building there. I think these vehicles? aren't all there in other pics.
5) This July 2005 is the best modern pic. It's not dated beyond "July". What's interesting is that comparing it to the July 26 2005 pic, you can see there is at least one vehicle? on the beach by the red roofed building, that's not in this pic.
6) The white line with red points in this pic is me speculating about river flow, suggesting a point on the opposite shore that might have been worth searching in 1980. There are some place names in the river that come up (blue) from google earth that might be good for reference. You can see the dry Shilapoo Lake labelled, on the Fazio property.
(edit) some of my placemarks look like they're not on target, that's because I put them on one year's imagery, and cycled thru without changing their position. The google imagery skews slightly from 1990 to 2005. The July 2005 pic was my reference point for all.
Georger likes cows, so there's some on that.
I id'ed some possible things that I wasn't clear on before in the area.
And I have a river flow possibility that suggests a location on the other side of the river where stuff may have landed on shore (cooper?), theorizing about how river flows work when the river meanders.
There is imagery from 1990 but it's b/w and fuzzy, so not including it, because no extra value
1) Fazio Sept 17 2002. Shows cows in South yard (picture right because E is top of picture) near the money find. Also note what I think is a cow feeding station.
2) Here's a picture of another cow feeding station farther N on the Fazio property. It looks identical to the one I labelled in 1)
3) This image from May 2002 is only slightly before the 1) photo, but it appears to show runoff collected W of that cow yard (the white "froth?"...) I've labelled my supposition. It's not "frothy" in other pics.
4) The July 26 2005 pic is interesting because I think it shows vehicles? on the beach, S of the money find, by the red roofed building there. I think these vehicles? aren't all there in other pics.
5) This July 2005 is the best modern pic. It's not dated beyond "July". What's interesting is that comparing it to the July 26 2005 pic, you can see there is at least one vehicle? on the beach by the red roofed building, that's not in this pic.
6) The white line with red points in this pic is me speculating about river flow, suggesting a point on the opposite shore that might have been worth searching in 1980. There are some place names in the river that come up (blue) from google earth that might be good for reference. You can see the dry Shilapoo Lake labelled, on the Fazio property.
(edit) some of my placemarks look like they're not on target, that's because I put them on one year's imagery, and cycled thru without changing their position. The google imagery skews slightly from 1990 to 2005. The July 2005 pic was my reference point for all.
snowmman 3
Scrolling thru the historical images now available on GE,
I noticed in May 2002 there were some objects on the beach near the money find location.
To the N (left in photo) is a blue object. Maybe a beached boat of some kind. There are some cars? by the trees near the money find.
Just interesting if it suggests that point there, where the road to the Fazio buildings intersects a shore road (gravel? dirt?) is where fisherman might drive to. It's just past the place in the 2005 photo where it appears the gate is?
I noticed in May 2002 there were some objects on the beach near the money find location.
To the N (left in photo) is a blue object. Maybe a beached boat of some kind. There are some cars? by the trees near the money find.
Just interesting if it suggests that point there, where the road to the Fazio buildings intersects a shore road (gravel? dirt?) is where fisherman might drive to. It's just past the place in the 2005 photo where it appears the gate is?
looks like a building of some sort to me.
snowmman 3
Quotelooks like a building of some sort to me.
Okay nitrochute, this is zeroing in on the blue object and cars by the apparent money find location (I was using the circled area in the photos provided by the FBI, to pinpoint the probable money find area. I should revisit that for accuracy)
In any case, two images in this pic.
Top shows many obvious cars parked at the Y.
(fishermen?), from July 26, 2005.
Bottom from Sept 17, 2002 shows no cars, and the blue object.
However, here, the blue object is not "in the water" like the last pic I showed. It's up on the beach (i.e. the waterline is low in this pic.
Maybe it's one of those big blue canopy things?
(edit) I added another pic that has the May 2002 image too, since it's the clearest of the blue thing. But cars are fewer (some on the right?)
georger 194
QuoteQuoteA lot of middle European Jewish families found their way to America via two routes: an earlier migration to England and then to America, and a later migration direct from Germany to America - mine the first route, Oppy's (according to him) the later route. Most of us at one time or another living in rural cirumstances (schtetels) in Germany, Poland, or wherever.
Maybe Orange can turn something up, but this is
definately the kind of thing that would have captivated Oppenheimer no end ... and maybe Oppy would have been able to answer Orange's question, directly -
Maybe I will poke around when I get some time and
see what I can find ...
Interesting. There were generally 2 Jewish "migrations" to SA as well - the first was around the diamond and then gold rush in the late 1800s and very early 1900s, the second was in the lead up to and around WW2 for horribly obvious reasons. While Ernest Oppenheimer technically forms part of the first, as Georger has noted his lineage is different from the average - most of the rest came directly from the shtetls (and most of them from Lithuania by the way), irrespective of whether they joined the first or second migration.
There is a lot of fascinating history, and all well depicted in the SA Jewish Museum in Cape Town if any of you do ever make it out here, but if anyone is interested in exploring further probably better to take it to PM than use up forum space on it.
btw we watched Fiddler on the Roof last weekend...!! and now this discussion.
Orange, Ive never been to SA. Almost wound up in
Kenya for a time, but then Kenyatta and all that transpired so I thought it better to stay away. I was
working as a researcher for a UNESCO committee
member at the time, in grad school. (The UNESCO
official was the Dean of our Graduate College).
We also have something here in the States called
Public Television. Several years ago there was a
documentary on the deBeers Co. Of course the
Oppenheimers were mentioned and this caught my
attention. I wondered then if there was some link
to 'Oppenheimer', but it didnt come up in the
program. However, the history of the deBeers Co.
is rich, how control moved from one investment
group to another etc. to have the Oppenheimers
finally in control. I am sure a CD of that Public TV
documentary is still available, should you ever want
to look it up.
Thanks.
G.
georger 194
well,,,,,,,,,,,,, what have I been saying.QuoteQuoteI need for you guys to tell me what kind of cap Duane has on. I think I did this before - the other photo showed the typical - white sailor hat - But this is some kind of beret. Date on back of picture indicates 1941 - this appears to be the type of photo one would do on leave following basic.
I do know that he was barely 16 when he enlisted because his mother changed his birth certificate to read 1924 when according to family records he was born in 1925.
I am not familiar with military caps and what their designations are.
Also compare this photo to the 1945 Firecrew pic from CPS.
After getting kicked out of the Navy he joins the Army and was stationed at Camp Siebert - a family member reported Duane confiscated a Commanding Officer's vehicle and went out on the town. It is uncertain what happend after this - the government finally produce discharge papers, but it was suggested from records he went AWOL showing up in CA. where his parent had to moved to from Stow, Ohio that yr.At one time his mother either cooked for or managed a Smorgasborg.
CKRET: Did you get that?
The Duane sailor picture shows (to my eye) very prominent protruding ear structure. Kids with ears like that were teased and called DUMBO, the Disney cartoon elephant who flew by flapping his ears.
I don't see such ears in the Cooper FBI sketches. Do ears like this on a a 16 year old youth tuck in more flush with the head as he ages? Georger?
377
At one time his mother either cooked for or managed a Smorgasborg.
georger 194
QuoteSince I downloaded the latest GE, I figured I'd post some pics.
Georger likes cows, so there's some on that.
I id'ed some possible things that I wasn't clear on before in the area.
And I have a river flow possibility that suggests a location on the other side of the river where stuff may have landed on shore (cooper?), theorizing about how river flows work when the river meanders.
There is imagery from 1990 but it's b/w and fuzzy, so not including it, because no extra value
1) Fazio Sept 17 2002. Shows cows in South yard (picture right because E is top of picture) near the money find. Also note what I think is a cow feeding station.
2) Here's a picture of another cow feeding station farther N on the Fazio property. It looks identical to the one I labelled in 1)
3) This image from May 2002 is only slightly before the 1) photo, but it appears to show runoff collected W of that cow yard (the white "froth?"...) I've labelled my supposition. It's not "frothy" in other pics.
4) The July 26 2005 pic is interesting because I think it shows vehicles? on the beach, S of the money find, by the red roofed building there. I think these vehicles? aren't all there in other pics.
5) This July 2005 is the best modern pic. It's not dated beyond "July". What's interesting is that comparing it to the July 26 2005 pic, you can see there is at least one vehicle? on the beach by the red roofed building, that's not in this pic.
6) The white line with red points in this pic is me speculating about river flow, suggesting a point on the opposite shore that might have been worth searching in 1980. There are some place names in the river that come up (blue) from google earth that might be good for reference. You can see the dry Shilapoo Lake labelled, on the Fazio property.
(edit) some of my placemarks look like they're not on target, that's because I put them on one year's imagery, and cycled thru without changing their position. The google imagery skews slightly from 1990 to 2005. The July 2005 pic was my reference point for all.
Good photos. The last one stands out to me,
showing Catapillar island and how T_Bar projects
out into the Columbia. What year is this photo?
These photos compare favorably with the hi-res
images Ckret posted before . . .
Keep track, there is a railroad line directly behind
the Fazio property. It comes down directly from the Orchards area... skirts north of Vancouver Lake then
bends over ad behind the Fazio property.
Back later tonight -
snowmman 3
Quote
Good photos. The last one stands out to me,
showing Catapillar island and how T_Bar projects
out into the Columbia. What year is this photo?
These photos compare favorably with the hi-res
images Ckret posted before . . .
Back later tonight -
that photo with my white line in the river, is the most recent imagery in Google Earth. It's dated July 2005. Note I'm doing a little compression to fit in the 300KB limit here, but I don't think it's noticeable from the original.
It's pretty good. You can see people camping on the shore of Caterpillar Island, with tents and boats.
I've been looking at shore debris. Further North on the Vancouver side, it seems like wherever there's sand, there's an even distribution of logs/brush from the river, on the sand.
(I've posted on that before)
I thought the Ckret photos were labelled "CENPP" which I thought was an acronym for The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Portland District. I thought those photos were aerial, not satellite? Don't know if satellite would have been that good in '70s? and if available to Corps of Engineers?
(edit) On the logs, you can ask "where did that log come from, and why did it beach there?"
(edit) While the latest TBar imagery is from 2005, I notice that elsewhere in the US there is imagery as recent as July 2007. Don't know what the most recent area/data is.
I was able to read the US Navy, but it was interesting how you were about to do that picture to make it stand out.
I had read something about when the jumpers where being trained and they took a beret and stripped the stiff lining our to them after they made their first jump - Does anyone know if this beret was the beret that the trainees did that to?
Regarding the ears - note that his growth plate was not complete at 15...go look at your own high school Sophomore pics. As he aged they were NOT so prominent. Also note that between 1960 and the later yrs there appears to be some changes in the ear (I do not know why - they were doing a minor pinning surgery those yrs).
Note the when I combined the composites with the pictures - the ears on the composites were actually larger than Duane's ear????????? 
On one I had to actually sketch the composite ear to be larger. Try it yourself.
I posted information looking for answers to questions. I have not been doing a tease only telling what I can tell. I still have faith I am going to put Duane on that plane and in a chute.
Very tired right now - 2 days straight of nuclear medicine prep and scans (3 1/2 hrs) today. When I got home I went back to bed, but I am still exhausted. Good Night.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Orange1 0
QuoteI was able to read the US Navy, but it was interesting how you were about to do that picture to make it stand out.
I had read something about when the jumpers where being trained and they took a beret and stripped the stiff lining our to them after they made their first jump - Does anyone know if this beret was the beret that the trainees did that to?
No, what you have in your picture is more a hat, not a real beret.
eit: see this link for pictures of paratrooper berets, if i am not mistaken they are similar colours in every army.
http://images.google.co.uk/images?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&rlz=1T4ADBF_en-GBZA312ZA312&q=paratrooper%20beret&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
georger 194
QuoteQuote
Good photos. The last one stands out to me,
showing Catapillar island and how T_Bar projects
out into the Columbia. What year is this photo?
These photos compare favorably with the hi-res
images Ckret posted before . . .
Back later tonight -
that photo with my white line in the river, is the most recent imagery in Google Earth. It's dated July 2005. Note I'm doing a little compression to fit in the 300KB limit here, but I don't think it's noticeable from the original.
It's pretty good. You can see people camping on the shore of Caterpillar Island, with tents and boats.
I've been looking at shore debris. Further North on the Vancouver side, it seems like wherever there's sand, there's an even distribution of logs/brush from the river, on the sand.
(I've posted on that before)
I thought the Ckret photos were labelled "CENPP" which I thought was an acronym for The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Portland District. I thought those photos were aerial, not satellite? Don't know if satellite would have been that good in '70s? and if available to Corps of Engineers?
(edit) On the logs, you can ask "where did that log come from, and why did it beach there?"
(edit) While the latest TBar imagery is from 2005, I notice that elsewhere in the US there is imagery as recent as July 2007. Don't know what the most recent area/data is.
yes, Ckret's photos were aerial. Attached are a few of them trimmed <300k to fit. Will have to look up
if they were Corps of Engineers photos, but I think so.
*What is the location of your beach debris photo ?
The question for Tina Bar has always been its
flow position. How does debris get there. Randomly? Your white line route seems simplistic to me.
snowmman 3
georger said:
"The question for Tina Bar has always been its flow position. How does debris get there. Randomly? Your white line route seems simplistic to me."
geoger: there is basic intro textbook stuff that describes how rivers behave.
I've read one discussion where they break river behavior into it's upper, middle and lower courses.
We're dealing with the middle courses of the Columbia? tending toward lower course behavior.
Two pics attached go with this description.
Also, an animation is here:
http://www.cleo.net.uk/resources/displayframe.php?src=309/consultants_resources%2F_files%2Fmeander4.swf
(edit) Isn't this animation showing something similar to what's happending after the curve in the Columbia, to Tena Bar (like I showed)
"One of the most distinctive features of the river in the middle course is its increased sinuousity. Unlike the relatively straight channel of the upper course, in the middle course there are many meanders (bends) in the river."
"Meanders form due to the greater volume of water carried by the river in lowland areas which results in lateral (sideways) erosion being more dominant than vertical erosion, causing the channel to cut into its banks forming meanders.
1. Water flows fastest on the outer bend of the river where the channel is deeper and there is less friction. This is due to water being flung towards the outer bend as it flows around the meander, this causes greater erosion which deepens the channel, in turn the reduction in friction and increase in energy results in greater erosion. This lateral erosion results in undercutting of the river bank and the formation of a steep sided river cliff.
2. In contrast, on the inner bend water is slow flowing, due to it being a low energy zone, deposition occurs resulting in a shallower channel. This increased friction further reduces the velocity (thus further reducing energy), encouraging further deposition. Over time a small beach of material builds up on the inner bend; this is called a slip-off slope.
Remember - a meander is asymmetrical in cross-section (see diagram). It is deeper on the outer bend (due to greater erosion) and shallower on the inside bend (an area of deposition)."
"The question for Tina Bar has always been its flow position. How does debris get there. Randomly? Your white line route seems simplistic to me."
geoger: there is basic intro textbook stuff that describes how rivers behave.
I've read one discussion where they break river behavior into it's upper, middle and lower courses.
We're dealing with the middle courses of the Columbia? tending toward lower course behavior.
Two pics attached go with this description.
Also, an animation is here:
http://www.cleo.net.uk/resources/displayframe.php?src=309/consultants_resources%2F_files%2Fmeander4.swf
(edit) Isn't this animation showing something similar to what's happending after the curve in the Columbia, to Tena Bar (like I showed)
"One of the most distinctive features of the river in the middle course is its increased sinuousity. Unlike the relatively straight channel of the upper course, in the middle course there are many meanders (bends) in the river."
"Meanders form due to the greater volume of water carried by the river in lowland areas which results in lateral (sideways) erosion being more dominant than vertical erosion, causing the channel to cut into its banks forming meanders.
1. Water flows fastest on the outer bend of the river where the channel is deeper and there is less friction. This is due to water being flung towards the outer bend as it flows around the meander, this causes greater erosion which deepens the channel, in turn the reduction in friction and increase in energy results in greater erosion. This lateral erosion results in undercutting of the river bank and the formation of a steep sided river cliff.
2. In contrast, on the inner bend water is slow flowing, due to it being a low energy zone, deposition occurs resulting in a shallower channel. This increased friction further reduces the velocity (thus further reducing energy), encouraging further deposition. Over time a small beach of material builds up on the inner bend; this is called a slip-off slope.
Remember - a meander is asymmetrical in cross-section (see diagram). It is deeper on the outer bend (due to greater erosion) and shallower on the inside bend (an area of deposition)."
snowmman 3
Just seeing if there's anything interesting with this new historical GE imagery they just released.
Here's the area just N of the money find. I was interested in the rate of change of the shoreline. The pictures are taken at various water levels, so that changes things. But there's an inlet N of Tena Bar, that seems to get sand deposits.
In general though, the river doesn't change quickly?
I guess this is too much info in 300KB. but it gives a general feel.
you can save it and zoom in, and there's still reasonable resolution. (the GE has better)
Here's the area just N of the money find. I was interested in the rate of change of the shoreline. The pictures are taken at various water levels, so that changes things. But there's an inlet N of Tena Bar, that seems to get sand deposits.
In general though, the river doesn't change quickly?
I guess this is too much info in 300KB. but it gives a general feel.
you can save it and zoom in, and there's still reasonable resolution. (the GE has better)
snowmman 3
georger:
in your "rail line" photo, you've mislabelled the fazio sand operations. Your label is in farmland (the reclaimed Shilapoo Lake area)
the sand operation is N and S of the buildings, which are West of NW Lower River Road. (basically right next to the Columbia)
in your "rail line" photo, you've mislabelled the fazio sand operations. Your label is in farmland (the reclaimed Shilapoo Lake area)
the sand operation is N and S of the buildings, which are West of NW Lower River Road. (basically right next to the Columbia)
Orange1 0
Quotesee this link for pictures of paratrooper berets, if i am not mistaken they are similar colours in every army.
http://images.google.co.uk/images?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&rlz=1T4ADBF_en-GBZA312ZA312&q=paratrooper%20beret&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
heh heh if you go to the 2nd page of that link (which i didn't do before) there is a picture of Gossett
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
georger 194
QuoteJust seeing if there's anything interesting with this new historical GE imagery they just released.
Here's the area just N of the money find. I was interested in the rate of change of the shoreline. The pictures are taken at various water levels, so that changes things. But there's an inlet N of Tena Bar, that seems to get sand deposits.
In general thought, the river doesn't change quickly?
Will answer both posts here: I agree. Change of the
inside shoreline (erosion or deposition) is a function of the pressure being exerted inside the meander and that is what Im not sure about, when you examine shoreline photos 1970-2005. It doesnt seem to me the inside shoreline in your meander model has increased very much in size, over time?
The strength of pressure to the inside on the meander would be proportional to the volume and rate of flow through the curve - as expressed over the volume/area of space at this point.
I just dont see a lot of outside or inside shoreline change to indicate a strong vector to the inside of the curve, toward Tina Bar?
At the same time I keep hearing all these reports of lots of debris at Tina Bar! If that is the case then
there may be a stronger higher volume inside flow than I think.
The only assumed facts I have are from hydrologist
Jeffrey Bradley's report.
Ckret always contended if the money broke free
and went down the main channel then this happened shortly before the discovery in Feb of 1980. 1979
was a very dry year, no floods then. Almost the same for 78. I have the facts to prove that. Then
there was a flood Dec 2 of 1977.
Ckret based his theory on the Bradeley's report, who cites the Dec 2, 1977 flood (Washougal and Columbia basin) as the likely time the money entered the Columbia. Bradley estimated a 3 feet/sec flow rate for the Columbia during the
Dec 2nd flood. He estimates the distance the
money traveled (from a Washougal entry point)
as approx 30 miles of uninterupted travel time of 14.7 hrs to Tina Bar. Bradley doesnt say one thing in his report to clarify flow patterms or any other
hydrological factor which would bring the money to Tina Bar out of the main channel.
If we had some concrete idea how and from where,
debris gets brought to Tina Bar and the rate of deposit, not just in flood but also during ordinary flow situations; then I think we would have some basis for estimating the meander effect you think applies post-curve in this area.
I will say this: if your theory is correct and the
money got to T-Bar via the Columbia main channel,
then the next question is "from where" and "when".
If Meander is the "means" of conveyance to T-Bar
then we are almost obliged to attach: via the main
channel. If the Main Channel is the route, then from
where and when? The money almost had to be hung up somewhere between 71 and 77, at least ?
G.
snowmman 3
good thoughts, georger.
Here's one I have.
If we don't see significant sand shifting in the various photos, away from Tena Bar, then the "plumes" visible in the '74 Tena Bar photo become more significant. Because they did appear and disappear (i.e. they weren't in the earlier, or the later, photo from Ckret).. And what's interesting is one is very near the money find.
Because of their shape, and the presence of the pipeline dredges further N on the columbia in that picture (I went thru all this before) and the known dates of the dredging, I think strengthens the idea that the more significant sand movement was related to dredging, not erosion or natural forces.
Of course you could also say that little apparent shoreline sand movement strengthens a human plant story, especially when it seems the money was found near where people park right near the water (my recent posts..although it's in the more recent era, the roads appear to have been there since the '70s. (the gravel/dirt roads around the Fazios.
The people/car traffic doesn't seem to have changed much around the Fazios. The big changes were first the South sand operation, and then later the North Sand operation.
It appears to me that the South Sand operation started around the '74 dredging.
Now: if we ignore all this sand talk, and focus on river debris, then we're back where we started. River debris (wood) seems to be most everywhere. Don't know if much gets buried in sand. Maybe some does?
Here's one I have.
If we don't see significant sand shifting in the various photos, away from Tena Bar, then the "plumes" visible in the '74 Tena Bar photo become more significant. Because they did appear and disappear (i.e. they weren't in the earlier, or the later, photo from Ckret).. And what's interesting is one is very near the money find.
Because of their shape, and the presence of the pipeline dredges further N on the columbia in that picture (I went thru all this before) and the known dates of the dredging, I think strengthens the idea that the more significant sand movement was related to dredging, not erosion or natural forces.
Of course you could also say that little apparent shoreline sand movement strengthens a human plant story, especially when it seems the money was found near where people park right near the water (my recent posts..although it's in the more recent era, the roads appear to have been there since the '70s. (the gravel/dirt roads around the Fazios.
The people/car traffic doesn't seem to have changed much around the Fazios. The big changes were first the South sand operation, and then later the North Sand operation.
It appears to me that the South Sand operation started around the '74 dredging.
Now: if we ignore all this sand talk, and focus on river debris, then we're back where we started. River debris (wood) seems to be most everywhere. Don't know if much gets buried in sand. Maybe some does?
snowmman 3
Georger said:
"The inside meander pressure may be exactly as you
think it is - I just dont know that is is for a fact."
The pressure as you call it, causes another effect. It changes the depth of the channel on the inside vs outside. (also changes some transverse flow behavior)
If we had detailed depth charts of the channel thru the big curve and past Tina Bar, we could infer the pressure behavior.
right?
"The inside meander pressure may be exactly as you
think it is - I just dont know that is is for a fact."
The pressure as you call it, causes another effect. It changes the depth of the channel on the inside vs outside. (also changes some transverse flow behavior)
If we had detailed depth charts of the channel thru the big curve and past Tina Bar, we could infer the pressure behavior.
right?
when Duane was in the navy, was he ever stationed at lakehurst nj? the navy parachute rigger school was there and one of the requirements for graduation is each candidate must make a jump witha parachute that they themselves had packed. THIS would most definitely put Duane in a parachute and at rather high speeds (exiting from the RD4D aircraft) there are pictures at flickr.com in Lee guilfoyle's photostream taht show some people and exits from that aircraft for thr rigger school.it could also account for why the NB6 was chosen , since a navy parachute rigger most definitely would be familiar with it.
snowmman 3
going to look again at depth charts/channel
here's 9/1/2006 nav chart online at
http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/18526.shtml
I zoomed into the columbia/williamette confluence. The main channel is on the outside of the curve as expected, although this may have been enhanced by dredging. See how it's not as deep on the inside of the curve.
Will look for more map further N.
(edit) further N. not as fine scale, but good. Online at
http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/18525.shtml
This is the same one I had a big PDF of before, but it's online now so you can zoom in to a particular area rather than download the whole thing. I'll post some snaps
here's 9/1/2006 nav chart online at
http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/18526.shtml
I zoomed into the columbia/williamette confluence. The main channel is on the outside of the curve as expected, although this may have been enhanced by dredging. See how it's not as deep on the inside of the curve.
Will look for more map further N.
(edit) further N. not as fine scale, but good. Online at
http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/18525.shtml
This is the same one I had a big PDF of before, but it's online now so you can zoom in to a particular area rather than download the whole thing. I'll post some snaps
georger 194
Quotegood thoughts, georger.
Here's one I have.
If we don't see significant sand shifting in the various photos, away from Tena Bar, then the "plumes" visible in the '74 Tena Bar photo become more significant. Because they did appear and disappear (i.e. they weren't in the earlier, or the later, photo from Ckret).. And what's interesting is one is very near the money find.
Because of their shape, and the presence of the pipeline dredges further N on the columbia in that picture (I went thru all this before) and the known dates of the dredging, I think strengthens the idea that the more significant sand movement was related to dredging, not erosion or natural forces.
Of course you could also say that little apparent shoreline sand movement strengthens a human plant story, especially when it seems the money was found near where people park right near the water (my recent posts..although it's in the more recent era, the roads appear to have been there since the '70s. (the gravel/dirt roads around the Fazios.
The people/car traffic doesn't seem to have changed much around the Fazios. The big changes were first the South sand operation, and then later the North Sand operation.
It appears to me that the South Sand operation started around the '74 dredging.
Now: if we ignore all this sand talk, and focus on river debris, then we're back where we started. River debris (wood) seems to be most everywhere. Don't know if much gets buried in sand. Maybe some does?
If the meander effect is real then you would expect
shoreline buildup or a fairly static situation at Tina Bar and you just dont see that.
In addition, the 1974 dredging photos show deposits of silt in large bulges at T Bar. These wash away rather quickly, which suggests more current than
a slow-side meander effect at this location ?
Yes. The area is high traffic, just as Jo has always said. I have talked to people who knew the Fazio's
who also confirm this - I know a animal husbandry professor who has been at the Fazio operation a number of times, who says it has always been a
high traffic area...
Go back to the dredge deposits seen in 74.
Notice how quickly they are swept away almost the
the original shore line, and after that what looks to
me like a fairly static situation. If there is slow current via a meander how did the dredge deposits
get swept away so quickly?
georger 194
Quotegood thoughts, georger.
Here's one I have.
If we don't see significant sand shifting in the various photos, away from Tena Bar, then the "plumes" visible in the '74 Tena Bar photo become more significant. Because they did appear and disappear (i.e. they weren't in the earlier, or the later, photo from Ckret).. And what's interesting is one is very near the money find.
Because of their shape, and the presence of the pipeline dredges further N on the columbia in that picture (I went thru all this before) and the known dates of the dredging, I think strengthens the idea that the more significant sand movement was related to dredging, not erosion or natural forces.
Of course you could also say that little apparent shoreline sand movement strengthens a human plant story, especially when it seems the money was found near where people park right near the water (my recent posts..although it's in the more recent era, the roads appear to have been there since the '70s. (the gravel/dirt roads around the Fazios.
The people/car traffic doesn't seem to have changed much around the Fazios. The big changes were first the South sand operation, and then later the North Sand operation.
It appears to me that the South Sand operation started around the '74 dredging.
Now: if we ignore all this sand talk, and focus on river debris, then we're back where we started. River debris (wood) seems to be most everywhere. Don't know if much gets buried in sand. Maybe some does?
What is the location of your debris photo? Tina
Bar?
I also edited my orig post - shorter etc..
Yeah, the Navy titling on the hat was pretty clear. What was the mystery?
Jo has promised us that the fat lady would sing, but I don't hear anything yet.
377
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