georger 197 #5401 November 25, 2008 QuoteQuote Watched an episode on the Unibomber tonight. That Lone Wolf profile. I think it applies in this case. nah. even Turchie and Puckett now have jumped on the latest bandwagon of saying "no, everyone is wrong now, we gotta do something different" Reply> Could look in the KGB archives. Their section on French-Canadian-American-employed dissidents open to defection might be a place to start. Georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #5402 November 25, 2008 Quote Been thinking more about the jump. Assume Cooper was not a jumper. He'd probably leave the step with his hand or even both hands on the ripcord handle and pull as soon as he jumped, before slowing down to terminal velocity, which is the wrong thing to do, especially with an unsleeved C 9 canopy. The C 9 is tough as hell (made for jet ejections, but those systems used seat drogues and other decelerators or delay timers) and wont fail, but you will get a truly horrendous body busting opening shock. Skydivers have had their aortas detach from slammer openings. You land dead. Have we looked into whether that might have happened to Cooper? If he went into the river dead, the chute could easily snag on something firmly affixed to the bottom that would prevent the harnessed body from being washed downstream. Nylon takes a long time to fail in the absence of UV. Silt could bury the snagged body and gear. After a while, the money container might disintegrate or open and allow some bills to get washed away... What about the fatal opening shock possibility? Very good points ... if disappointing to many of those here. It does seem eminently possible, and I agree a non-jumper would probably not want to risk freefall (and we have discussed at length the kind of panic a non-jumper might experience in freefall, especially with a hard pull). I still think we are looking at a fairly binary outcome: non-jumper probably didn't survive, best chance of survival from someone with paratrooper experience.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #5403 November 25, 2008 Quote we never discussed 'up a tree' I tried. I posted that link a few months back of the remains of a WW2 paratrooper that had just been found in a tree... can't remember where the location was but it does show someone can be up a tree for a long time without anyone realising they are there.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5404 November 25, 2008 QuoteQuote we never discussed 'up a tree' I tried. I posted that link a few months back of the remains of a WW2 paratrooper that had just been found in a tree... can't remember where the location was but it does show someone can be up a tree for a long time without anyone realising they are there. orange1: that was something that looked like what you said. I think it was just bullshit. They took pictures from the ground. Said it looked like Uncle Albert, next thing you knew it's all over the internet http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/28/2348489.htm http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2008/08/28/2349562.htm Notice you haven't heard about it since. however, earlier that year, a full skeleton of a japanese soldier was found buried in the Kokoda Track. (Kokoda track was the same area) So this story is real: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23236924-31477,00.html?from=public_rss I think the other story was just odd plant formation. If anyone can dig up a post August resolution of it, that would be interesting. But Orange1, you're promoting myth as far as I can tell, unless you got more? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5405 November 25, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote Watched an episode on the Unibomber tonight. That Lone Wolf profile. I think it applies in this case. nah. even Turchie and Puckett now have jumped on the latest bandwagon of saying "no, everyone is wrong now, we gotta do something different" Reply> Could look in the KGB archives. Their section on French-Canadian-American-employed dissidents open to defection might be a place to start. Georger Cooper did spend a lot of time in the john. He could have been a French Canadian defecator. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #5406 November 25, 2008 Quote But Orange1, you're promoting myth as far as I can tell, unless you got more? The story as i recall came off the BBC News website, which I generally trust... didn't think to bother following it up. If you say it is myth, OK, will follow up later sometime when I have time to do some searches.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ckret 0 #5407 November 25, 2008 Quote37 years to the day. Snowman says that Larry Carr is "full of shit." No, he's just full of himself. I heard today that Larry Carr is going to appear on the "History Channel" in a role as Ckret Agent for a tv docu-drama. So Larry must be saving all the good "shit" for himself. I thought Larry wanted us to help him solve the DB Cooper mystery. Hollywood Carr. Well, after over 500 posts (many on company time), I guess Larry is positioning for "something shit" of this forum. How come the audience here is getting smaller? Well Buzzard, lets see, the investigative strategy from the beginning of my effort has been to get as much factual info to the public as possible. The belief is that if the public has the right info new leads may develop. The best way to accomplish this is to use conduits capable of reaching as many people as possible. In this day and age that would be the media and internet. To that end, I wish the History Channel would do something on Cooper. As for your blurb about, “doing it on company time” I do believe I am the case agent. If the investigative strategy is to openly communicate to folks on the web and through the media when do you propose I do it. So you can rest a bit easy, the majority of my posting and surfing of this site and others about Cooper happens before or after work, or like now while on vacation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #5408 November 25, 2008 Quote37 years to the day. Snowman says that Larry Carr is "full of shit." No, he's just full of himself. I heard today that Larry Carr is going to appear on the "History Channel" in a role as Ckret Agent for a tv docu-drama. So Larry must be saving all the good "shit" for himself. I thought Larry wanted us to help him solve the DB Cooper mystery. Hollywood Carr. Well, after over 500 posts (many on company time), I guess Larry is positioning for "something shit" of this forum. How come the audience here is getting smaller? BuzzardNest, Hey, the more exposure the case gets the more likely that someone previously silent or uninvolved will decide to come forward with some real evidence. There is no such thing as bad publicity on a cold case. All publicity is good. We are feeding on ourselves here, we need fresh meat. Face it, Ckret, due to his FBI credentials, will have way more mainstream credibility and interest than any of us could possibly hope for. It is only natural that he will be sought out by the media on matters regarding Cooper. I don't see him quitting his day job just yet. The Hollywood stuff is just part of his FBI Cooper job at the moment. Actually, Ckret is far less of a media hound than other FBI agents assigned to high profile cases. Remember the Patty Hearst/SLA case? You couldn't turn on your TV in the evening from the kidnapping in Feb 74 to her capture in Sept 75 and far beyond without seeing Charles Bates, head of the SF FBI office on your TV screen as a talking head. There was even a docudrama about the case as seen through his eyes starring Dennis Weaver as Bates. Bates rode the Patty Hearst case long after her capture, trial and conviction. Defense lawyers jokingly referred to him as SAC Hearst. Although I join in the kidding about Ckret going Hollywood on us, actually it is a good thing for the case. We are only a few dozen obscure people on this specialized low publicity forum. National TV exposure will bring Cooper to the attention of millions. If only one of those millions of viewers comes forward with some useful evidence it is worth it. Until I see photos of Ckret hanging with Brad Angelina or Paris, I am going to cut him some slack on this media stuff. I won't stop kidding him or asking him to put me on the A list for the clubs where the stars hang out. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5409 November 25, 2008 I'm not saying anything negative in this post, and talking only about myself. I'll use a skydiving metaphor, even though I'm whuffo. My impression of reading a bunch of stuff in March, was that Larry was saying "let's all go do a big N-way" I don't know if Larry understood what he was saying (how it would be perceived by people like me) versus what he actually wanted to do, but the reality is not "let's all go do a big N-way". Now Larry has all sorts of good reasons for that, and he's mentioned them before, so I'm not faulting that. I had a hard time understanding whether Larry understood there was a difference between the message and the reality. Sometimes I thought "Larry just thinks that goes with the program, and everyone needs to just fly straight". I disagreed with that, since that's not how interactions on an Internet forum work. I'm not sure how experienced Larry is at Internet forums, or how people collaborate and share information and goals on them, whether it's gaming or crocheting, and how individual members build their persona solely within that thread and how. I know I am an asshole here. You can still find postings to different internet forums from me with Google going back to 1993. So it's fair to say maybe all of that has rubbed off on me, on my perception of the virtual reality we exist in, here. Like I say, I have no idea what Larry is about. I'm only talking about how I perceive things and what I do. So none of this should be perceived at being directed at anyone. I'm just talking about my head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #5410 November 25, 2008 QuoteQuote37 years to the day. Snowman says that Larry Carr is "full of shit." No, he's just full of himself. I heard today that Larry Carr is going to appear on the "History Channel" in a role as Ckret Agent for a tv docu-drama. So Larry must be saving all the good "shit" for himself. I thought Larry wanted us to help him solve the DB Cooper mystery. Hollywood Carr. Well, after over 500 posts (many on company time), I guess Larry is positioning for "something shit" of this forum. How come the audience here is getting smaller? BuzzardNest, Hey, the more exposure the case gets the more likely that someone previously silent or uninvolved will decide to come forward with some real evidence. There is no such thing as bad publicity on a cold case. All publicity is good. We are feeding on ourselves here, we need fresh meat. Face it, Ckret, due to his FBI credentials, will have way more mainstream credibility and interest than any of us could possibly hope for. It is only natural that he will be sought out by the media on matters regarding Cooper. I don't see him quitting his day job just yet. The Hollywood stuff is just part of his FBI Cooper job at the moment. Actually, Ckret is far less of a media hound than other FBI agents assigned to high profile cases. Remember the Patty Hearst/SLA case? You couldn't turn on your TV in the evening from the kidnapping in Feb 74 to her capture in Sept 75 and far beyond without seeing Charles Bates, head of the SF FBI office on your TV screen as a talking head. There was even a docudrama about the case as seen through his eyes starring Dennis Weaver as Bates. Bates rode the Patty Hearst case long after her capture, trial and conviction. Defense lawyers jokingly referred to him as SAC Hearst. Although I join in the kidding about Ckret going Hollywood on us, actually it is a good thing for the case. We are only a few dozen obscure people on this specialized low publicity forum. National TV exposure will bring Cooper to the attention of millions. If only one of those millions of viewers comes forward with some useful evidence it is worth it. Until I see photos of Ckret hanging with Brad Angelina or Paris, I am going to cut him some slack on this media stuff. I won't stop kidding him or asking him to put me on the A list for the clubs where the stars hang out. 377 and the Turchie_Puckett angle isnt bad either. It brought forth a connection in the Kaczynski case. Kaczinski however was in hiding already forced by public awareness to keep a low profile. Excerpts of anything Cooper actually said or any peculiar-unique things he did (or said) from the files, might be an opening for someone in the public. And these horrible mug shots have to go! Get a good artist to produce mug shots which have realism and look like a living person! Good photos of the tie and clip and anything else. A check list of basic facts (with photos!), eg. "He smokes Raleigh cigarettes" coupled with a good large size photo of a packof Raleighs. That kind of thing. It came down to the brother recognising two short lines in the whole manifesto, that snagged Kaczynski. Ted's brother had seen/read the same two lines or something very much like them years before. Or, wait and see if the hotel clerk comes through! Turn Turchie and Puckett lose on Jo and the hotel clerk and get that over with once and for all! Georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5411 November 25, 2008 remember there may be no brothers, sisters or living family or wives from the critical time period. Rather than a "lone wolf", there may be a loner that appears to be part of a well-interconnected life, but without the people that normally are "loose lips" like in the unabomber case. It's important to think about this, because Ckret may have been thinking he wants to jostle info from memory banks from certain types of people, but those people may not exist in this case. So the unabomber example of "brother" while interesting, may just be hopeful. Have to think broader to guarantee success, I think. The media and the FBI I think too easily grasp at easy models of real lives, that reflect the high percentage probability case. Remember: if we want to assume the high probability cases have all been explored, and we're confident of the skills and resources of those who explored them, then we should just be thinking about low probability cases. If we're not confident of the skills, techniques and resources of those who explored the high probability cases, then we have to cover everything. We should always try to extend our net 2-3 standard deviations beyond the center point of whatever our current nest of theories is. The dvd rental prediction model feels good in my head. Everyone can make their own model of what this search is supposed to be about, all equally valid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5412 November 25, 2008 Quote A check list of basic facts (with photos!), eg. "He smokes Raleigh cigarettes" coupled with a good large size photo of a packof Raleighs. That kind of thing. I posted photos of Raleigh packs, I believe from the period way back in the thread. So while I may be an asshole, I've always thought I acted as a good thread member here, in a narrow way. We all have different contributions. I only judge people in this context based on the skills displayed, resources provided or entertainment value! I really don't care about the rest of their lives. If the rest of their lives provide value for this thread, then show it here. And anyone can get offended about anything, as we all know. So I don't care if I offend anyone. If I worried about that on the internet, there are so many ways to offend, there would be nothing left for my brain to do. And the only "respect" anyone deserves, is respect earned within the thread, for whatever reason. Everyone is godlike in some other context. No reason to try to claim that somehow should be a claim for unearned respect here in this context. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #5413 November 25, 2008 Quoteremember there may be no brothers, sisters or living family or wives from the critical time period. Rather than a "lone wolf", there may be a loner that appears to be part of a well-interconnected life, but without the people that normally are "loose lips" like in the unabomber case. It's important to think about this, because Ckret may have been thinking he wants to jostle info from memory banks from certain types of people, but those people may not exist in this case. So the unabomber example of "brother" while interesting, may just be hopeful. Have to think broader to guarantee success, I think. The media and the FBI I think too easily grasp at easy models of real lives, that reflect the high percentage probability case. Remember: if we want to assume the high probability cases have all been explored, and we're confident of the skills and resources of those who explored them, then we should just be thinking about low probability cases. If we're not confident of the skills, techniques and resources of those who explored the high probability cases, then we have to cover everything. We should always try to extend our net 2-3 standard deviations beyond the center point of whatever our current nest of theories is. The dvd rental prediction model feels good in my head. Everyone can make their own model of what this search is supposed to be about, all equally valid. All valid thoughts. The probabilities involved in this case have been in my mind from the start. Really going back to '71 just after this happened. It was the probabilities people discussed most, around me at the time. But these probabilities have always eluded me. I'm not talking about some crude Drake equation (is there life in NGC0935_Cooper). When Safecracking joined I thought he might give it a shot, and perhaps he has? So finally last week, there i a phone message on someone's recorder who is a noted probability statistician who I am trying to entice into this. He hasn't replied. He "probably" is sitting laughing. Or, a year from now another new book will appear: 'Probabilities That Cooper Only Knows!". In the realworld its not quite like it is on TV. Any result would be endlessly debatable. It would take someone with a lot of hard facts particular to 11-24-71 itself. NWA (Soderlind?) tried and we know where that went. P(c1 c2 c3 ... cn) = ? Georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #5414 November 25, 2008 Quote Quote A check list of basic facts (with photos!), eg. "He smokes Raleigh cigarettes" coupled with a good large size photo of a packof Raleighs. That kind of thing. I posted photos of Raleigh packs, I believe from the period way back in the thread. So while I may be an asshole, I've always thought I acted as a good thread member here, in a narrow way. We all have different contributions. I only judge people in this context based on the skills displayed, resources provided or entertainment value! I really don't care about the rest of their lives. If the rest of their lives provide value for this thread, then show it here. And anyone can get offended about anything, as we all know. So I don't care if I offend anyone. If I worried about that on the internet, there are so many ways to offend, there would be nothing left for my brain to do. And the only "respect" anyone deserves, is respect earned within the thread, for whatever reason. Everyone is godlike in some other context. No reason to try to claim that somehow should be a claim for unearned respect here in this context. This is the public sector. People are who they are. I have no problem with you or I am an asshole too! Now two of us. Happy Thanksgiving. George Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5415 November 25, 2008 Quote In the realworld its not quite like it is on TV. Georger Agreed. But, if you extend that to say TV, plus the current state of the art gaming consoles, with maybe non-US games, does that cover the real world? I mean doesn't it work if you get the Soul Stone with +500 manna and a Divine Intervention Shout? Ah man. This is the kind of thing that turns people to the old school stuff, like religion. JOKE! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sluggo_Monster 0 #5416 November 26, 2008 See the video about Dr. Kaye's work on the money: H E R E Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ckret 0 #5417 November 26, 2008 QuoteSee the video about Dr. Kaye's work on the money: H E R E Thanks to Georger, Sluggo and the rest of you citizen sleuths. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #5418 November 26, 2008 QuoteQuoteSee the video about Dr. Kaye's work on the money: H E R E Thanks to Georger, Sluggo and the rest of you citizen sleuths. WOW!!! Very cool! I am really proud of you guys. The tease is killing me. What is Kaye saying? Did the people who found the money lie about where they found it? Am I the only one who thinks Ckret has some resemblance in delivery style and appearance to motivational speaker/huckster Tony Robbins? Not like they are identical twins, but a resemblance. Ckret definitely has a future in Hollywood if he cares to pursue it. Georger, you weren't mentioned by name (perhaps by choice) but your contribution was HUGE. Sluggo, you are the only person I have ever seen on TV being credited for correcting an FBI investigative error. I want to be your agent. I am not gonna stay home while all you celebs are running around Hollywood in limos, living large and hanging with the stars. This news story and video sure made my morning. Carry on gentlemen. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomKaye 1 #5419 November 26, 2008 Hello Everyone! Tom Kaye from the news clip checking in. I have been watching this forum daily for months and have enjoyed your interchange very much. There was a lot of discussion within our team about going public and yes some of them prefer to remain anonymous for the moment. We did it mostly because it would help out Ckret and shake the trees. I am most curious to see what Snowman can come up with about me so I will not say much more besides the fact I am not a Dr.. The guy has amazing skills.. Although I knew of the Cooper story for decades, I was never really a fan until this project came along. Hats off to Georger and Sluggo for the immense databank on this subject. TomKaye Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5420 November 26, 2008 kudos to everyone. Sluggo's flight path work was seminal and the extensions off it he did, amazing. Tom, you reminded me of a mad scientist guy whose lab I happened to see in the '80s in Tempe. (his wife showed me :) ) He had his own private forensic lab, mostly worked for lawsuits. He bought used gear and had it all set up like a mad frankenstein lab. It was like you looked around his lab and thought "Is it legal to own all this gear?" ...He had a big hang glider he was analyzing that failed at the time. (edit) Funny Tom! you got me, yeah the first thing I did while watching the clip was a quick google. But unless you worked as a night clerk sometime in the past...:) a blog entry http://blogs.king5.com/archives/2008/11/cooper-case-age.html "You've got to hand it to Larry Carr. The Seattle FBI agent volunteered to take over the DB Cooper investigation last year. It's a stone-cold case and lower than low on the FBI's priority scale. Carr is the lone case agent and even he is a part-timer. His day job is chasing bank robbers for the FBI. That's why Carr deserves credit for making the most of what he's got. He realizes the one powerful tool at his disposal is continuing public interest in the Cooper case. When he started releasing previously secret evidence about the case last year, reporters (including this one) came running. Along with the expected kooks, a contingent of talented citizen sleuths has responded. As our story shows, those volunteers are performing work at their own expense and developing exciting new leads. It reminds me of that scene where Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer is dreading painting the picket fence, so he cunningly convinces the other kids that it's fun and then lets them do the job. Fortunately for Carr, there are many of us who are all too happy to help the FBI with its chores." (edit) I would note a popular myth propagated by the media: that there is a distinction between "kooks" and "talented". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ckret 0 #5421 November 26, 2008 Quote Hello Everyone! Tom Kaye from the news clip checking in. I have been watching this forum daily for months and have enjoyed your interchange very much. There was a lot of discussion within our team about going public and yes some of them prefer to remain anonymous for the moment. We did it mostly because it would help out Ckret and shake the trees. I am most curious to see what Snowman can come up with about me so I will not say much more besides the fact I am not a Dr.. The guy has amazing skills.. Although I knew of the Cooper story for decades, I was never really a fan until this project came along. Hats off to Georger and Sluggo for the immense databank on this subject. TomKaye Tom: I hope you don’t have too many skeletons in the closet, Snowmman is about to tell the world your life story. Great job on the story, you represented the project very well, I had no doubts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5422 November 26, 2008 Quote I hope you don’t have too many skeletons in the closet, Snowmman is about to tell the world your life story. Great job on the story, you represented the project very well, I had no doubts. :) no not even going to look. Tom gets a pass. Anyone who's willing to put themselves out there in the media deserves some slack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5423 November 26, 2008 I just realized there is one brass ring, that millions dream of, but only few can ever attain. Getting your story on the front page of Digg No. that's not possible. There's no way, it's the impossible dream. That's A-list way beyond Angelina. (edit) So I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas. A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald ... striking. So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one – big hitter, the Lama – long, into a 10,000-foot crevice, right at the base of this glacier. And do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga ... gunga – gunga lagunga. So we finish the 18th and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sluggo_Monster 0 #5424 November 26, 2008 How's this for logic? Let’s see now: SF = snowmman’s friend : : : : TK = Tom Kaye SF – Mad Scientist type TK – Mad Scientist type SF – Has wife TK – Has wife SF – Lives in Tempe, AZ TK – Lives in Sierra Vista, AZ SF – Has his own private forensics lab TK – Has his own private forensics lab SF – Bought used gear TK – Got his EM on e-Bay That settles it: Jo! Hey Jo! Snowmman’s friend is Tom Kaye! Seriously... Tom, Great job! Now... when you gonna publish some results, so we can all go and invade the countryside of South Clark County, WA (or is it North Multnomah County, OR?) Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #5425 November 26, 2008 QuoteSee the video about Dr. Kaye's work on the money: H E R E I have a really crappy net connection at the moment - can someone summarize the video for me...please?Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 Next Page 217 of 2540 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 47 47 Go To Topic Listing
Orange1 0 #5402 November 25, 2008 Quote Been thinking more about the jump. Assume Cooper was not a jumper. He'd probably leave the step with his hand or even both hands on the ripcord handle and pull as soon as he jumped, before slowing down to terminal velocity, which is the wrong thing to do, especially with an unsleeved C 9 canopy. The C 9 is tough as hell (made for jet ejections, but those systems used seat drogues and other decelerators or delay timers) and wont fail, but you will get a truly horrendous body busting opening shock. Skydivers have had their aortas detach from slammer openings. You land dead. Have we looked into whether that might have happened to Cooper? If he went into the river dead, the chute could easily snag on something firmly affixed to the bottom that would prevent the harnessed body from being washed downstream. Nylon takes a long time to fail in the absence of UV. Silt could bury the snagged body and gear. After a while, the money container might disintegrate or open and allow some bills to get washed away... What about the fatal opening shock possibility? Very good points ... if disappointing to many of those here. It does seem eminently possible, and I agree a non-jumper would probably not want to risk freefall (and we have discussed at length the kind of panic a non-jumper might experience in freefall, especially with a hard pull). I still think we are looking at a fairly binary outcome: non-jumper probably didn't survive, best chance of survival from someone with paratrooper experience.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #5403 November 25, 2008 Quote we never discussed 'up a tree' I tried. I posted that link a few months back of the remains of a WW2 paratrooper that had just been found in a tree... can't remember where the location was but it does show someone can be up a tree for a long time without anyone realising they are there.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #5404 November 25, 2008 QuoteQuote we never discussed 'up a tree' I tried. I posted that link a few months back of the remains of a WW2 paratrooper that had just been found in a tree... can't remember where the location was but it does show someone can be up a tree for a long time without anyone realising they are there. orange1: that was something that looked like what you said. I think it was just bullshit. They took pictures from the ground. Said it looked like Uncle Albert, next thing you knew it's all over the internet http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/28/2348489.htm http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2008/08/28/2349562.htm Notice you haven't heard about it since. however, earlier that year, a full skeleton of a japanese soldier was found buried in the Kokoda Track. (Kokoda track was the same area) So this story is real: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23236924-31477,00.html?from=public_rss I think the other story was just odd plant formation. If anyone can dig up a post August resolution of it, that would be interesting. But Orange1, you're promoting myth as far as I can tell, unless you got more? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #5405 November 25, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote Watched an episode on the Unibomber tonight. That Lone Wolf profile. I think it applies in this case. nah. even Turchie and Puckett now have jumped on the latest bandwagon of saying "no, everyone is wrong now, we gotta do something different" Reply> Could look in the KGB archives. Their section on French-Canadian-American-employed dissidents open to defection might be a place to start. Georger Cooper did spend a lot of time in the john. He could have been a French Canadian defecator. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #5406 November 25, 2008 Quote But Orange1, you're promoting myth as far as I can tell, unless you got more? The story as i recall came off the BBC News website, which I generally trust... didn't think to bother following it up. If you say it is myth, OK, will follow up later sometime when I have time to do some searches.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ckret 0 #5407 November 25, 2008 Quote37 years to the day. Snowman says that Larry Carr is "full of shit." No, he's just full of himself. I heard today that Larry Carr is going to appear on the "History Channel" in a role as Ckret Agent for a tv docu-drama. So Larry must be saving all the good "shit" for himself. I thought Larry wanted us to help him solve the DB Cooper mystery. Hollywood Carr. Well, after over 500 posts (many on company time), I guess Larry is positioning for "something shit" of this forum. How come the audience here is getting smaller? Well Buzzard, lets see, the investigative strategy from the beginning of my effort has been to get as much factual info to the public as possible. The belief is that if the public has the right info new leads may develop. The best way to accomplish this is to use conduits capable of reaching as many people as possible. In this day and age that would be the media and internet. To that end, I wish the History Channel would do something on Cooper. As for your blurb about, “doing it on company time” I do believe I am the case agent. If the investigative strategy is to openly communicate to folks on the web and through the media when do you propose I do it. So you can rest a bit easy, the majority of my posting and surfing of this site and others about Cooper happens before or after work, or like now while on vacation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #5408 November 25, 2008 Quote37 years to the day. Snowman says that Larry Carr is "full of shit." No, he's just full of himself. I heard today that Larry Carr is going to appear on the "History Channel" in a role as Ckret Agent for a tv docu-drama. So Larry must be saving all the good "shit" for himself. I thought Larry wanted us to help him solve the DB Cooper mystery. Hollywood Carr. Well, after over 500 posts (many on company time), I guess Larry is positioning for "something shit" of this forum. How come the audience here is getting smaller? BuzzardNest, Hey, the more exposure the case gets the more likely that someone previously silent or uninvolved will decide to come forward with some real evidence. There is no such thing as bad publicity on a cold case. All publicity is good. We are feeding on ourselves here, we need fresh meat. Face it, Ckret, due to his FBI credentials, will have way more mainstream credibility and interest than any of us could possibly hope for. It is only natural that he will be sought out by the media on matters regarding Cooper. I don't see him quitting his day job just yet. The Hollywood stuff is just part of his FBI Cooper job at the moment. Actually, Ckret is far less of a media hound than other FBI agents assigned to high profile cases. Remember the Patty Hearst/SLA case? You couldn't turn on your TV in the evening from the kidnapping in Feb 74 to her capture in Sept 75 and far beyond without seeing Charles Bates, head of the SF FBI office on your TV screen as a talking head. There was even a docudrama about the case as seen through his eyes starring Dennis Weaver as Bates. Bates rode the Patty Hearst case long after her capture, trial and conviction. Defense lawyers jokingly referred to him as SAC Hearst. Although I join in the kidding about Ckret going Hollywood on us, actually it is a good thing for the case. We are only a few dozen obscure people on this specialized low publicity forum. National TV exposure will bring Cooper to the attention of millions. If only one of those millions of viewers comes forward with some useful evidence it is worth it. Until I see photos of Ckret hanging with Brad Angelina or Paris, I am going to cut him some slack on this media stuff. I won't stop kidding him or asking him to put me on the A list for the clubs where the stars hang out. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5409 November 25, 2008 I'm not saying anything negative in this post, and talking only about myself. I'll use a skydiving metaphor, even though I'm whuffo. My impression of reading a bunch of stuff in March, was that Larry was saying "let's all go do a big N-way" I don't know if Larry understood what he was saying (how it would be perceived by people like me) versus what he actually wanted to do, but the reality is not "let's all go do a big N-way". Now Larry has all sorts of good reasons for that, and he's mentioned them before, so I'm not faulting that. I had a hard time understanding whether Larry understood there was a difference between the message and the reality. Sometimes I thought "Larry just thinks that goes with the program, and everyone needs to just fly straight". I disagreed with that, since that's not how interactions on an Internet forum work. I'm not sure how experienced Larry is at Internet forums, or how people collaborate and share information and goals on them, whether it's gaming or crocheting, and how individual members build their persona solely within that thread and how. I know I am an asshole here. You can still find postings to different internet forums from me with Google going back to 1993. So it's fair to say maybe all of that has rubbed off on me, on my perception of the virtual reality we exist in, here. Like I say, I have no idea what Larry is about. I'm only talking about how I perceive things and what I do. So none of this should be perceived at being directed at anyone. I'm just talking about my head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #5410 November 25, 2008 QuoteQuote37 years to the day. Snowman says that Larry Carr is "full of shit." No, he's just full of himself. I heard today that Larry Carr is going to appear on the "History Channel" in a role as Ckret Agent for a tv docu-drama. So Larry must be saving all the good "shit" for himself. I thought Larry wanted us to help him solve the DB Cooper mystery. Hollywood Carr. Well, after over 500 posts (many on company time), I guess Larry is positioning for "something shit" of this forum. How come the audience here is getting smaller? BuzzardNest, Hey, the more exposure the case gets the more likely that someone previously silent or uninvolved will decide to come forward with some real evidence. There is no such thing as bad publicity on a cold case. All publicity is good. We are feeding on ourselves here, we need fresh meat. Face it, Ckret, due to his FBI credentials, will have way more mainstream credibility and interest than any of us could possibly hope for. It is only natural that he will be sought out by the media on matters regarding Cooper. I don't see him quitting his day job just yet. The Hollywood stuff is just part of his FBI Cooper job at the moment. Actually, Ckret is far less of a media hound than other FBI agents assigned to high profile cases. Remember the Patty Hearst/SLA case? You couldn't turn on your TV in the evening from the kidnapping in Feb 74 to her capture in Sept 75 and far beyond without seeing Charles Bates, head of the SF FBI office on your TV screen as a talking head. There was even a docudrama about the case as seen through his eyes starring Dennis Weaver as Bates. Bates rode the Patty Hearst case long after her capture, trial and conviction. Defense lawyers jokingly referred to him as SAC Hearst. Although I join in the kidding about Ckret going Hollywood on us, actually it is a good thing for the case. We are only a few dozen obscure people on this specialized low publicity forum. National TV exposure will bring Cooper to the attention of millions. If only one of those millions of viewers comes forward with some useful evidence it is worth it. Until I see photos of Ckret hanging with Brad Angelina or Paris, I am going to cut him some slack on this media stuff. I won't stop kidding him or asking him to put me on the A list for the clubs where the stars hang out. 377 and the Turchie_Puckett angle isnt bad either. It brought forth a connection in the Kaczynski case. Kaczinski however was in hiding already forced by public awareness to keep a low profile. Excerpts of anything Cooper actually said or any peculiar-unique things he did (or said) from the files, might be an opening for someone in the public. And these horrible mug shots have to go! Get a good artist to produce mug shots which have realism and look like a living person! Good photos of the tie and clip and anything else. A check list of basic facts (with photos!), eg. "He smokes Raleigh cigarettes" coupled with a good large size photo of a packof Raleighs. That kind of thing. It came down to the brother recognising two short lines in the whole manifesto, that snagged Kaczynski. Ted's brother had seen/read the same two lines or something very much like them years before. Or, wait and see if the hotel clerk comes through! Turn Turchie and Puckett lose on Jo and the hotel clerk and get that over with once and for all! Georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5411 November 25, 2008 remember there may be no brothers, sisters or living family or wives from the critical time period. Rather than a "lone wolf", there may be a loner that appears to be part of a well-interconnected life, but without the people that normally are "loose lips" like in the unabomber case. It's important to think about this, because Ckret may have been thinking he wants to jostle info from memory banks from certain types of people, but those people may not exist in this case. So the unabomber example of "brother" while interesting, may just be hopeful. Have to think broader to guarantee success, I think. The media and the FBI I think too easily grasp at easy models of real lives, that reflect the high percentage probability case. Remember: if we want to assume the high probability cases have all been explored, and we're confident of the skills and resources of those who explored them, then we should just be thinking about low probability cases. If we're not confident of the skills, techniques and resources of those who explored the high probability cases, then we have to cover everything. We should always try to extend our net 2-3 standard deviations beyond the center point of whatever our current nest of theories is. The dvd rental prediction model feels good in my head. Everyone can make their own model of what this search is supposed to be about, all equally valid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5412 November 25, 2008 Quote A check list of basic facts (with photos!), eg. "He smokes Raleigh cigarettes" coupled with a good large size photo of a packof Raleighs. That kind of thing. I posted photos of Raleigh packs, I believe from the period way back in the thread. So while I may be an asshole, I've always thought I acted as a good thread member here, in a narrow way. We all have different contributions. I only judge people in this context based on the skills displayed, resources provided or entertainment value! I really don't care about the rest of their lives. If the rest of their lives provide value for this thread, then show it here. And anyone can get offended about anything, as we all know. So I don't care if I offend anyone. If I worried about that on the internet, there are so many ways to offend, there would be nothing left for my brain to do. And the only "respect" anyone deserves, is respect earned within the thread, for whatever reason. Everyone is godlike in some other context. No reason to try to claim that somehow should be a claim for unearned respect here in this context. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #5413 November 25, 2008 Quoteremember there may be no brothers, sisters or living family or wives from the critical time period. Rather than a "lone wolf", there may be a loner that appears to be part of a well-interconnected life, but without the people that normally are "loose lips" like in the unabomber case. It's important to think about this, because Ckret may have been thinking he wants to jostle info from memory banks from certain types of people, but those people may not exist in this case. So the unabomber example of "brother" while interesting, may just be hopeful. Have to think broader to guarantee success, I think. The media and the FBI I think too easily grasp at easy models of real lives, that reflect the high percentage probability case. Remember: if we want to assume the high probability cases have all been explored, and we're confident of the skills and resources of those who explored them, then we should just be thinking about low probability cases. If we're not confident of the skills, techniques and resources of those who explored the high probability cases, then we have to cover everything. We should always try to extend our net 2-3 standard deviations beyond the center point of whatever our current nest of theories is. The dvd rental prediction model feels good in my head. Everyone can make their own model of what this search is supposed to be about, all equally valid. All valid thoughts. The probabilities involved in this case have been in my mind from the start. Really going back to '71 just after this happened. It was the probabilities people discussed most, around me at the time. But these probabilities have always eluded me. I'm not talking about some crude Drake equation (is there life in NGC0935_Cooper). When Safecracking joined I thought he might give it a shot, and perhaps he has? So finally last week, there i a phone message on someone's recorder who is a noted probability statistician who I am trying to entice into this. He hasn't replied. He "probably" is sitting laughing. Or, a year from now another new book will appear: 'Probabilities That Cooper Only Knows!". In the realworld its not quite like it is on TV. Any result would be endlessly debatable. It would take someone with a lot of hard facts particular to 11-24-71 itself. NWA (Soderlind?) tried and we know where that went. P(c1 c2 c3 ... cn) = ? Georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #5414 November 25, 2008 Quote Quote A check list of basic facts (with photos!), eg. "He smokes Raleigh cigarettes" coupled with a good large size photo of a packof Raleighs. That kind of thing. I posted photos of Raleigh packs, I believe from the period way back in the thread. So while I may be an asshole, I've always thought I acted as a good thread member here, in a narrow way. We all have different contributions. I only judge people in this context based on the skills displayed, resources provided or entertainment value! I really don't care about the rest of their lives. If the rest of their lives provide value for this thread, then show it here. And anyone can get offended about anything, as we all know. So I don't care if I offend anyone. If I worried about that on the internet, there are so many ways to offend, there would be nothing left for my brain to do. And the only "respect" anyone deserves, is respect earned within the thread, for whatever reason. Everyone is godlike in some other context. No reason to try to claim that somehow should be a claim for unearned respect here in this context. This is the public sector. People are who they are. I have no problem with you or I am an asshole too! Now two of us. Happy Thanksgiving. George Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5415 November 25, 2008 Quote In the realworld its not quite like it is on TV. Georger Agreed. But, if you extend that to say TV, plus the current state of the art gaming consoles, with maybe non-US games, does that cover the real world? I mean doesn't it work if you get the Soul Stone with +500 manna and a Divine Intervention Shout? Ah man. This is the kind of thing that turns people to the old school stuff, like religion. JOKE! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sluggo_Monster 0 #5416 November 26, 2008 See the video about Dr. Kaye's work on the money: H E R E Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ckret 0 #5417 November 26, 2008 QuoteSee the video about Dr. Kaye's work on the money: H E R E Thanks to Georger, Sluggo and the rest of you citizen sleuths. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 20 #5418 November 26, 2008 QuoteQuoteSee the video about Dr. Kaye's work on the money: H E R E Thanks to Georger, Sluggo and the rest of you citizen sleuths. WOW!!! Very cool! I am really proud of you guys. The tease is killing me. What is Kaye saying? Did the people who found the money lie about where they found it? Am I the only one who thinks Ckret has some resemblance in delivery style and appearance to motivational speaker/huckster Tony Robbins? Not like they are identical twins, but a resemblance. Ckret definitely has a future in Hollywood if he cares to pursue it. Georger, you weren't mentioned by name (perhaps by choice) but your contribution was HUGE. Sluggo, you are the only person I have ever seen on TV being credited for correcting an FBI investigative error. I want to be your agent. I am not gonna stay home while all you celebs are running around Hollywood in limos, living large and hanging with the stars. This news story and video sure made my morning. Carry on gentlemen. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomKaye 1 #5419 November 26, 2008 Hello Everyone! Tom Kaye from the news clip checking in. I have been watching this forum daily for months and have enjoyed your interchange very much. There was a lot of discussion within our team about going public and yes some of them prefer to remain anonymous for the moment. We did it mostly because it would help out Ckret and shake the trees. I am most curious to see what Snowman can come up with about me so I will not say much more besides the fact I am not a Dr.. The guy has amazing skills.. Although I knew of the Cooper story for decades, I was never really a fan until this project came along. Hats off to Georger and Sluggo for the immense databank on this subject. TomKaye Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5420 November 26, 2008 kudos to everyone. Sluggo's flight path work was seminal and the extensions off it he did, amazing. Tom, you reminded me of a mad scientist guy whose lab I happened to see in the '80s in Tempe. (his wife showed me :) ) He had his own private forensic lab, mostly worked for lawsuits. He bought used gear and had it all set up like a mad frankenstein lab. It was like you looked around his lab and thought "Is it legal to own all this gear?" ...He had a big hang glider he was analyzing that failed at the time. (edit) Funny Tom! you got me, yeah the first thing I did while watching the clip was a quick google. But unless you worked as a night clerk sometime in the past...:) a blog entry http://blogs.king5.com/archives/2008/11/cooper-case-age.html "You've got to hand it to Larry Carr. The Seattle FBI agent volunteered to take over the DB Cooper investigation last year. It's a stone-cold case and lower than low on the FBI's priority scale. Carr is the lone case agent and even he is a part-timer. His day job is chasing bank robbers for the FBI. That's why Carr deserves credit for making the most of what he's got. He realizes the one powerful tool at his disposal is continuing public interest in the Cooper case. When he started releasing previously secret evidence about the case last year, reporters (including this one) came running. Along with the expected kooks, a contingent of talented citizen sleuths has responded. As our story shows, those volunteers are performing work at their own expense and developing exciting new leads. It reminds me of that scene where Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer is dreading painting the picket fence, so he cunningly convinces the other kids that it's fun and then lets them do the job. Fortunately for Carr, there are many of us who are all too happy to help the FBI with its chores." (edit) I would note a popular myth propagated by the media: that there is a distinction between "kooks" and "talented". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ckret 0 #5421 November 26, 2008 Quote Hello Everyone! Tom Kaye from the news clip checking in. I have been watching this forum daily for months and have enjoyed your interchange very much. There was a lot of discussion within our team about going public and yes some of them prefer to remain anonymous for the moment. We did it mostly because it would help out Ckret and shake the trees. I am most curious to see what Snowman can come up with about me so I will not say much more besides the fact I am not a Dr.. The guy has amazing skills.. Although I knew of the Cooper story for decades, I was never really a fan until this project came along. Hats off to Georger and Sluggo for the immense databank on this subject. TomKaye Tom: I hope you don’t have too many skeletons in the closet, Snowmman is about to tell the world your life story. Great job on the story, you represented the project very well, I had no doubts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5422 November 26, 2008 Quote I hope you don’t have too many skeletons in the closet, Snowmman is about to tell the world your life story. Great job on the story, you represented the project very well, I had no doubts. :) no not even going to look. Tom gets a pass. Anyone who's willing to put themselves out there in the media deserves some slack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #5423 November 26, 2008 I just realized there is one brass ring, that millions dream of, but only few can ever attain. Getting your story on the front page of Digg No. that's not possible. There's no way, it's the impossible dream. That's A-list way beyond Angelina. (edit) So I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas. A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald ... striking. So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one – big hitter, the Lama – long, into a 10,000-foot crevice, right at the base of this glacier. And do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga ... gunga – gunga lagunga. So we finish the 18th and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sluggo_Monster 0 #5424 November 26, 2008 How's this for logic? Let’s see now: SF = snowmman’s friend : : : : TK = Tom Kaye SF – Mad Scientist type TK – Mad Scientist type SF – Has wife TK – Has wife SF – Lives in Tempe, AZ TK – Lives in Sierra Vista, AZ SF – Has his own private forensics lab TK – Has his own private forensics lab SF – Bought used gear TK – Got his EM on e-Bay That settles it: Jo! Hey Jo! Snowmman’s friend is Tom Kaye! Seriously... Tom, Great job! Now... when you gonna publish some results, so we can all go and invade the countryside of South Clark County, WA (or is it North Multnomah County, OR?) Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #5425 November 26, 2008 QuoteSee the video about Dr. Kaye's work on the money: H E R E I have a really crappy net connection at the moment - can someone summarize the video for me...please?Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 Next Page 217 of 2540 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 47 47
Orange1 0 #5406 November 25, 2008 Quote But Orange1, you're promoting myth as far as I can tell, unless you got more? The story as i recall came off the BBC News website, which I generally trust... didn't think to bother following it up. If you say it is myth, OK, will follow up later sometime when I have time to do some searches.Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ckret 0 #5407 November 25, 2008 Quote37 years to the day. Snowman says that Larry Carr is "full of shit." No, he's just full of himself. I heard today that Larry Carr is going to appear on the "History Channel" in a role as Ckret Agent for a tv docu-drama. So Larry must be saving all the good "shit" for himself. I thought Larry wanted us to help him solve the DB Cooper mystery. Hollywood Carr. Well, after over 500 posts (many on company time), I guess Larry is positioning for "something shit" of this forum. How come the audience here is getting smaller? Well Buzzard, lets see, the investigative strategy from the beginning of my effort has been to get as much factual info to the public as possible. The belief is that if the public has the right info new leads may develop. The best way to accomplish this is to use conduits capable of reaching as many people as possible. In this day and age that would be the media and internet. To that end, I wish the History Channel would do something on Cooper. As for your blurb about, “doing it on company time” I do believe I am the case agent. If the investigative strategy is to openly communicate to folks on the web and through the media when do you propose I do it. So you can rest a bit easy, the majority of my posting and surfing of this site and others about Cooper happens before or after work, or like now while on vacation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #5408 November 25, 2008 Quote37 years to the day. Snowman says that Larry Carr is "full of shit." No, he's just full of himself. I heard today that Larry Carr is going to appear on the "History Channel" in a role as Ckret Agent for a tv docu-drama. So Larry must be saving all the good "shit" for himself. I thought Larry wanted us to help him solve the DB Cooper mystery. Hollywood Carr. Well, after over 500 posts (many on company time), I guess Larry is positioning for "something shit" of this forum. How come the audience here is getting smaller? BuzzardNest, Hey, the more exposure the case gets the more likely that someone previously silent or uninvolved will decide to come forward with some real evidence. There is no such thing as bad publicity on a cold case. All publicity is good. We are feeding on ourselves here, we need fresh meat. Face it, Ckret, due to his FBI credentials, will have way more mainstream credibility and interest than any of us could possibly hope for. It is only natural that he will be sought out by the media on matters regarding Cooper. I don't see him quitting his day job just yet. The Hollywood stuff is just part of his FBI Cooper job at the moment. Actually, Ckret is far less of a media hound than other FBI agents assigned to high profile cases. Remember the Patty Hearst/SLA case? You couldn't turn on your TV in the evening from the kidnapping in Feb 74 to her capture in Sept 75 and far beyond without seeing Charles Bates, head of the SF FBI office on your TV screen as a talking head. There was even a docudrama about the case as seen through his eyes starring Dennis Weaver as Bates. Bates rode the Patty Hearst case long after her capture, trial and conviction. Defense lawyers jokingly referred to him as SAC Hearst. Although I join in the kidding about Ckret going Hollywood on us, actually it is a good thing for the case. We are only a few dozen obscure people on this specialized low publicity forum. National TV exposure will bring Cooper to the attention of millions. If only one of those millions of viewers comes forward with some useful evidence it is worth it. Until I see photos of Ckret hanging with Brad Angelina or Paris, I am going to cut him some slack on this media stuff. I won't stop kidding him or asking him to put me on the A list for the clubs where the stars hang out. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #5409 November 25, 2008 I'm not saying anything negative in this post, and talking only about myself. I'll use a skydiving metaphor, even though I'm whuffo. My impression of reading a bunch of stuff in March, was that Larry was saying "let's all go do a big N-way" I don't know if Larry understood what he was saying (how it would be perceived by people like me) versus what he actually wanted to do, but the reality is not "let's all go do a big N-way". Now Larry has all sorts of good reasons for that, and he's mentioned them before, so I'm not faulting that. I had a hard time understanding whether Larry understood there was a difference between the message and the reality. Sometimes I thought "Larry just thinks that goes with the program, and everyone needs to just fly straight". I disagreed with that, since that's not how interactions on an Internet forum work. I'm not sure how experienced Larry is at Internet forums, or how people collaborate and share information and goals on them, whether it's gaming or crocheting, and how individual members build their persona solely within that thread and how. I know I am an asshole here. You can still find postings to different internet forums from me with Google going back to 1993. So it's fair to say maybe all of that has rubbed off on me, on my perception of the virtual reality we exist in, here. Like I say, I have no idea what Larry is about. I'm only talking about how I perceive things and what I do. So none of this should be perceived at being directed at anyone. I'm just talking about my head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #5410 November 25, 2008 QuoteQuote37 years to the day. Snowman says that Larry Carr is "full of shit." No, he's just full of himself. I heard today that Larry Carr is going to appear on the "History Channel" in a role as Ckret Agent for a tv docu-drama. So Larry must be saving all the good "shit" for himself. I thought Larry wanted us to help him solve the DB Cooper mystery. Hollywood Carr. Well, after over 500 posts (many on company time), I guess Larry is positioning for "something shit" of this forum. How come the audience here is getting smaller? BuzzardNest, Hey, the more exposure the case gets the more likely that someone previously silent or uninvolved will decide to come forward with some real evidence. There is no such thing as bad publicity on a cold case. All publicity is good. We are feeding on ourselves here, we need fresh meat. Face it, Ckret, due to his FBI credentials, will have way more mainstream credibility and interest than any of us could possibly hope for. It is only natural that he will be sought out by the media on matters regarding Cooper. I don't see him quitting his day job just yet. The Hollywood stuff is just part of his FBI Cooper job at the moment. Actually, Ckret is far less of a media hound than other FBI agents assigned to high profile cases. Remember the Patty Hearst/SLA case? You couldn't turn on your TV in the evening from the kidnapping in Feb 74 to her capture in Sept 75 and far beyond without seeing Charles Bates, head of the SF FBI office on your TV screen as a talking head. There was even a docudrama about the case as seen through his eyes starring Dennis Weaver as Bates. Bates rode the Patty Hearst case long after her capture, trial and conviction. Defense lawyers jokingly referred to him as SAC Hearst. Although I join in the kidding about Ckret going Hollywood on us, actually it is a good thing for the case. We are only a few dozen obscure people on this specialized low publicity forum. National TV exposure will bring Cooper to the attention of millions. If only one of those millions of viewers comes forward with some useful evidence it is worth it. Until I see photos of Ckret hanging with Brad Angelina or Paris, I am going to cut him some slack on this media stuff. I won't stop kidding him or asking him to put me on the A list for the clubs where the stars hang out. 377 and the Turchie_Puckett angle isnt bad either. It brought forth a connection in the Kaczynski case. Kaczinski however was in hiding already forced by public awareness to keep a low profile. Excerpts of anything Cooper actually said or any peculiar-unique things he did (or said) from the files, might be an opening for someone in the public. And these horrible mug shots have to go! Get a good artist to produce mug shots which have realism and look like a living person! Good photos of the tie and clip and anything else. A check list of basic facts (with photos!), eg. "He smokes Raleigh cigarettes" coupled with a good large size photo of a packof Raleighs. That kind of thing. It came down to the brother recognising two short lines in the whole manifesto, that snagged Kaczynski. Ted's brother had seen/read the same two lines or something very much like them years before. Or, wait and see if the hotel clerk comes through! Turn Turchie and Puckett lose on Jo and the hotel clerk and get that over with once and for all! Georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #5411 November 25, 2008 remember there may be no brothers, sisters or living family or wives from the critical time period. Rather than a "lone wolf", there may be a loner that appears to be part of a well-interconnected life, but without the people that normally are "loose lips" like in the unabomber case. It's important to think about this, because Ckret may have been thinking he wants to jostle info from memory banks from certain types of people, but those people may not exist in this case. So the unabomber example of "brother" while interesting, may just be hopeful. Have to think broader to guarantee success, I think. The media and the FBI I think too easily grasp at easy models of real lives, that reflect the high percentage probability case. Remember: if we want to assume the high probability cases have all been explored, and we're confident of the skills and resources of those who explored them, then we should just be thinking about low probability cases. If we're not confident of the skills, techniques and resources of those who explored the high probability cases, then we have to cover everything. We should always try to extend our net 2-3 standard deviations beyond the center point of whatever our current nest of theories is. The dvd rental prediction model feels good in my head. Everyone can make their own model of what this search is supposed to be about, all equally valid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #5412 November 25, 2008 Quote A check list of basic facts (with photos!), eg. "He smokes Raleigh cigarettes" coupled with a good large size photo of a packof Raleighs. That kind of thing. I posted photos of Raleigh packs, I believe from the period way back in the thread. So while I may be an asshole, I've always thought I acted as a good thread member here, in a narrow way. We all have different contributions. I only judge people in this context based on the skills displayed, resources provided or entertainment value! I really don't care about the rest of their lives. If the rest of their lives provide value for this thread, then show it here. And anyone can get offended about anything, as we all know. So I don't care if I offend anyone. If I worried about that on the internet, there are so many ways to offend, there would be nothing left for my brain to do. And the only "respect" anyone deserves, is respect earned within the thread, for whatever reason. Everyone is godlike in some other context. No reason to try to claim that somehow should be a claim for unearned respect here in this context. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #5413 November 25, 2008 Quoteremember there may be no brothers, sisters or living family or wives from the critical time period. Rather than a "lone wolf", there may be a loner that appears to be part of a well-interconnected life, but without the people that normally are "loose lips" like in the unabomber case. It's important to think about this, because Ckret may have been thinking he wants to jostle info from memory banks from certain types of people, but those people may not exist in this case. So the unabomber example of "brother" while interesting, may just be hopeful. Have to think broader to guarantee success, I think. The media and the FBI I think too easily grasp at easy models of real lives, that reflect the high percentage probability case. Remember: if we want to assume the high probability cases have all been explored, and we're confident of the skills and resources of those who explored them, then we should just be thinking about low probability cases. If we're not confident of the skills, techniques and resources of those who explored the high probability cases, then we have to cover everything. We should always try to extend our net 2-3 standard deviations beyond the center point of whatever our current nest of theories is. The dvd rental prediction model feels good in my head. Everyone can make their own model of what this search is supposed to be about, all equally valid. All valid thoughts. The probabilities involved in this case have been in my mind from the start. Really going back to '71 just after this happened. It was the probabilities people discussed most, around me at the time. But these probabilities have always eluded me. I'm not talking about some crude Drake equation (is there life in NGC0935_Cooper). When Safecracking joined I thought he might give it a shot, and perhaps he has? So finally last week, there i a phone message on someone's recorder who is a noted probability statistician who I am trying to entice into this. He hasn't replied. He "probably" is sitting laughing. Or, a year from now another new book will appear: 'Probabilities That Cooper Only Knows!". In the realworld its not quite like it is on TV. Any result would be endlessly debatable. It would take someone with a lot of hard facts particular to 11-24-71 itself. NWA (Soderlind?) tried and we know where that went. P(c1 c2 c3 ... cn) = ? Georger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #5414 November 25, 2008 Quote Quote A check list of basic facts (with photos!), eg. "He smokes Raleigh cigarettes" coupled with a good large size photo of a packof Raleighs. That kind of thing. I posted photos of Raleigh packs, I believe from the period way back in the thread. So while I may be an asshole, I've always thought I acted as a good thread member here, in a narrow way. We all have different contributions. I only judge people in this context based on the skills displayed, resources provided or entertainment value! I really don't care about the rest of their lives. If the rest of their lives provide value for this thread, then show it here. And anyone can get offended about anything, as we all know. So I don't care if I offend anyone. If I worried about that on the internet, there are so many ways to offend, there would be nothing left for my brain to do. And the only "respect" anyone deserves, is respect earned within the thread, for whatever reason. Everyone is godlike in some other context. No reason to try to claim that somehow should be a claim for unearned respect here in this context. This is the public sector. People are who they are. I have no problem with you or I am an asshole too! Now two of us. Happy Thanksgiving. George Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #5415 November 25, 2008 Quote In the realworld its not quite like it is on TV. Georger Agreed. But, if you extend that to say TV, plus the current state of the art gaming consoles, with maybe non-US games, does that cover the real world? I mean doesn't it work if you get the Soul Stone with +500 manna and a Divine Intervention Shout? Ah man. This is the kind of thing that turns people to the old school stuff, like religion. JOKE! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo_Monster 0 #5416 November 26, 2008 See the video about Dr. Kaye's work on the money: H E R E Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ckret 0 #5417 November 26, 2008 QuoteSee the video about Dr. Kaye's work on the money: H E R E Thanks to Georger, Sluggo and the rest of you citizen sleuths. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #5418 November 26, 2008 QuoteQuoteSee the video about Dr. Kaye's work on the money: H E R E Thanks to Georger, Sluggo and the rest of you citizen sleuths. WOW!!! Very cool! I am really proud of you guys. The tease is killing me. What is Kaye saying? Did the people who found the money lie about where they found it? Am I the only one who thinks Ckret has some resemblance in delivery style and appearance to motivational speaker/huckster Tony Robbins? Not like they are identical twins, but a resemblance. Ckret definitely has a future in Hollywood if he cares to pursue it. Georger, you weren't mentioned by name (perhaps by choice) but your contribution was HUGE. Sluggo, you are the only person I have ever seen on TV being credited for correcting an FBI investigative error. I want to be your agent. I am not gonna stay home while all you celebs are running around Hollywood in limos, living large and hanging with the stars. This news story and video sure made my morning. Carry on gentlemen. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomKaye 1 #5419 November 26, 2008 Hello Everyone! Tom Kaye from the news clip checking in. I have been watching this forum daily for months and have enjoyed your interchange very much. There was a lot of discussion within our team about going public and yes some of them prefer to remain anonymous for the moment. We did it mostly because it would help out Ckret and shake the trees. I am most curious to see what Snowman can come up with about me so I will not say much more besides the fact I am not a Dr.. The guy has amazing skills.. Although I knew of the Cooper story for decades, I was never really a fan until this project came along. Hats off to Georger and Sluggo for the immense databank on this subject. TomKaye Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #5420 November 26, 2008 kudos to everyone. Sluggo's flight path work was seminal and the extensions off it he did, amazing. Tom, you reminded me of a mad scientist guy whose lab I happened to see in the '80s in Tempe. (his wife showed me :) ) He had his own private forensic lab, mostly worked for lawsuits. He bought used gear and had it all set up like a mad frankenstein lab. It was like you looked around his lab and thought "Is it legal to own all this gear?" ...He had a big hang glider he was analyzing that failed at the time. (edit) Funny Tom! you got me, yeah the first thing I did while watching the clip was a quick google. But unless you worked as a night clerk sometime in the past...:) a blog entry http://blogs.king5.com/archives/2008/11/cooper-case-age.html "You've got to hand it to Larry Carr. The Seattle FBI agent volunteered to take over the DB Cooper investigation last year. It's a stone-cold case and lower than low on the FBI's priority scale. Carr is the lone case agent and even he is a part-timer. His day job is chasing bank robbers for the FBI. That's why Carr deserves credit for making the most of what he's got. He realizes the one powerful tool at his disposal is continuing public interest in the Cooper case. When he started releasing previously secret evidence about the case last year, reporters (including this one) came running. Along with the expected kooks, a contingent of talented citizen sleuths has responded. As our story shows, those volunteers are performing work at their own expense and developing exciting new leads. It reminds me of that scene where Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer is dreading painting the picket fence, so he cunningly convinces the other kids that it's fun and then lets them do the job. Fortunately for Carr, there are many of us who are all too happy to help the FBI with its chores." (edit) I would note a popular myth propagated by the media: that there is a distinction between "kooks" and "talented". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ckret 0 #5421 November 26, 2008 Quote Hello Everyone! Tom Kaye from the news clip checking in. I have been watching this forum daily for months and have enjoyed your interchange very much. There was a lot of discussion within our team about going public and yes some of them prefer to remain anonymous for the moment. We did it mostly because it would help out Ckret and shake the trees. I am most curious to see what Snowman can come up with about me so I will not say much more besides the fact I am not a Dr.. The guy has amazing skills.. Although I knew of the Cooper story for decades, I was never really a fan until this project came along. Hats off to Georger and Sluggo for the immense databank on this subject. TomKaye Tom: I hope you don’t have too many skeletons in the closet, Snowmman is about to tell the world your life story. Great job on the story, you represented the project very well, I had no doubts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #5422 November 26, 2008 Quote I hope you don’t have too many skeletons in the closet, Snowmman is about to tell the world your life story. Great job on the story, you represented the project very well, I had no doubts. :) no not even going to look. Tom gets a pass. Anyone who's willing to put themselves out there in the media deserves some slack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #5423 November 26, 2008 I just realized there is one brass ring, that millions dream of, but only few can ever attain. Getting your story on the front page of Digg No. that's not possible. There's no way, it's the impossible dream. That's A-list way beyond Angelina. (edit) So I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas. A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I'm a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald ... striking. So, I'm on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one – big hitter, the Lama – long, into a 10,000-foot crevice, right at the base of this glacier. And do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga ... gunga – gunga lagunga. So we finish the 18th and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo_Monster 0 #5424 November 26, 2008 How's this for logic? Let’s see now: SF = snowmman’s friend : : : : TK = Tom Kaye SF – Mad Scientist type TK – Mad Scientist type SF – Has wife TK – Has wife SF – Lives in Tempe, AZ TK – Lives in Sierra Vista, AZ SF – Has his own private forensics lab TK – Has his own private forensics lab SF – Bought used gear TK – Got his EM on e-Bay That settles it: Jo! Hey Jo! Snowmman’s friend is Tom Kaye! Seriously... Tom, Great job! Now... when you gonna publish some results, so we can all go and invade the countryside of South Clark County, WA (or is it North Multnomah County, OR?) Sluggo Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #5425 November 26, 2008 QuoteSee the video about Dr. Kaye's work on the money: H E R E I have a really crappy net connection at the moment - can someone summarize the video for me...please?Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
