georger 197
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georger 197
QuoteQuoteWe already know he contemptuously
pulled the packing card(s) out and tossed that on
the floor and Tina questioned him about that and
his reply.
Again - fiction and fact - WHERE does the FACTs state he pulled the packing cards out and tossed them on the floor?
REPLY> OK you are technically correct. Tina had the
instruction sheet(s) - the packing cards were "in" the chutes.
Strange turnaround you've done since saying there
were no instruction sheets - now you are anexpert!
Snowmman you are getting this all messed up. The packing card was something that is packed with the chute telling who packed it (as to my understanding ). The only time a packing card was mentioned was in one of the fiction books.
We are ALL aware of the instruction sheet that Tina was given - a packing card in the chute and the instruction sheet Tina had possession of are TWO different animals as I understand it.
If I am wrong ok - but you guys (skydivers hashed this out in the other thread or earlier in this one) I had nothing to do with it that information. One is fiction and one is fact. But both are not fact.
Quote
What did a frightened young stewardess actually see? Could she have thought he was devising handles when it could have been loops to attach the package to himself?
As for tying a rope around his waist - what did she actually see? Considering the lenght of rope removed from the chute - perhaps what she saw was his using a piece of rope to secure the package to his waist, but from what direction did she view this. If he had been facing her he would have noted her observance and have told her to go on forward.
I want to know if anyone has notice in the past several months that when any of us make a post that suggests something we were not aware of before and going in a positive direction the following posts go a complete different direction.
Now this is parnoid at its height -It is as though we are being diverted to a different train of thought on purpose.
We were talking about how the money was attached and suddenly we go into a repetive back lash. Different trains for different folks I guess.
I was really interested in the line of thought we had going about the attachment of the money to the jumper.
Maybe I am watching too much - of the Presidential crap on TV. Have you notice the candidates when asked a question end up NOT answering the question, but leading the interviewer in a different direct - the question never gets answered?
Politics and Cooper sure have a lot in common...twisting of facts, lots of misinformation, answering questions with a leading diverson.
I believe it is called the DUMBING down of AMERICA. Right now I don't want to vote for either of them. Neither one of the candidates gives direct answers.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
This is worst than the convention - the packing cards - we never even knew if that was true - it was in a book. Who cares?
Dual personality or two people using one posting name? This actually happened on another forum regarding Cooper. I am getting that same feeling here. 
Skyjumpers
Attention Nick:
If I could get the answer to the question I asked Nick about the ropes - handles versus loops - I would appreciate it.
Attention Nitro:
I couldn't find the pic of the alligator clips - are they similar to the alligator clips used in an office? Doubt it.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
377 20
I want to know if anyone has noticed in the past several months that when any of us make a post that suggests something we were not aware of before and going in a positive direction the following posts go a complete different direction.
They are both just practicing to be President.
"Barbie" (Cindy) doesn't like Sarah.
"Damn it John, how could you??? You told me you'd pick Colin Powell. I didn't fund this campaign just to have you distract everyone from MY beauty. I am the peach. I am the prize. Alaska is just a goddamned arctic trailer park that somehow achieved statehood and she is just a small town mayor with a big butt"
377
Right now I don't want to vote for either of them. Neither one of the candidates gives direct answers.***Quote
No, I haven't noticed that. How do you define "positive direction?"
They are both just practicing to be President.
"Barbie" (Cindy) doesn't like Sarah.
"Damn it John, how could you??? You told me you'd pick Colin Powell. I didn't fund this campaign just to have you distract everyone from MY beauty. I am the peach. I am the prize. Alaska is just a goddamned arctic trailer park that somehow achieved statehood and she is just a small town mayor with a big butt"
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
quade 3
Please keep the discussion here limited to DB Cooper.
If you guys want to discuss politics, we actually do have an 8th Circle of Hell called Speakers Corner. Beware . . . evil lurks inside.
If you guys want to discuss politics, we actually do have an 8th Circle of Hell called Speakers Corner. Beware . . . evil lurks inside.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
georger 197
QuotePlease keep the discussion here limited to DB Cooper.
If you guys want to discuss politics, we actually do have an 8th Circle of Hell called Speakers Corner. Beware . . . evil lurks inside.
REPLY: Thank you. Agree. Appreciated.
Georger
377 20
OK Quade.
Now back to Cooper. I wish someone would pack a rig just like the one Cooper used and measure the pull force. I had a couple of really hard pulls on rented surplus gear back in the 60s, non extended military containers and 28 ft C 9s. It was scary and disorienting... and that was jumping from a slow flying Cessna on a warm clear summer day. What comes to a mind in the first stage of panic is that you must be pulling on the wrong object which could cause you to drop the handle grip and start pulling frantically on something else.
Now back to Cooper. I wish someone would pack a rig just like the one Cooper used and measure the pull force. I had a couple of really hard pulls on rented surplus gear back in the 60s, non extended military containers and 28 ft C 9s. It was scary and disorienting... and that was jumping from a slow flying Cessna on a warm clear summer day. What comes to a mind in the first stage of panic is that you must be pulling on the wrong object which could cause you to drop the handle grip and start pulling frantically on something else.
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Ckret 0
There were no belly bands given with the chest chutes.
do we know if there were pilotchutes installed on those chest pack chutes? there is no placard warning that the pilotchute had been removed (as required by faa regs) in the pix of the chest chutes, but as we have seen , the letter of the law certainly has not been followed regarding the packing and maintainance of the chutes. if there were pilotchutes, there would be a bridle line (made of anything from 550 cord to 1/2 '' tubular to 3/4'' tubular nylon) up to 2 or 3 feet in length. it wouldcertainly have given ol coop some more stuff to attatch the money to hisself.
snowmman 3
QuoteThere were no belly bands given with the chest chutes.
Ckret, some questions when you find time:
1) any thoughts on the white cord/line on the side straps of the chest chute that you have? Were they there before Cooper got it? Or did Cooper put them on? or is it just unknown?
I could imagine that someone before Cooper might have tried to jury-rig a belly-band..but it's odd that at least one of the white cords appears frayed, as if cut.
2) are there cords inside the chest container? (cut?) if so: what color?
3) Can you confirm whether a rip was found, or not, for the chest container?
Orange1 0
QuoteQuote
What did a frightened young stewardess actually see? Could she have thought he was devising handles when it could have been loops to attach the package to himself?
As for tying a rope around his waist - what did she actually see? Considering the lenght of rope removed from the chute - perhaps what she saw was his using a piece of rope to secure the package to his waist, but from what direction did she view this. If he had been facing her he would have noted her observance and have told her to go on forward.
I want to know if anyone has notice in the past several months that when any of us make a post that suggests something we were not aware of before and going in a positive direction the following posts go a complete different direction.
Now this is parnoid at its height -It is as though we are being diverted to a different train of thought on purpose.
We were talking about how the money was attached and suddenly we go into a repetive back lash. Different trains for different folks I guess.
I was really interested in the line of thought we had going about the attachment of the money to the jumper.
Well, Jo, the link to the transcript has been posted here more than once. It is in there that Tina saw him tying something around his waist. I would take that as pretty authoritative as it was a report Tina made right at the time. It is certainly not Ckret's speculation. I wonder what agenda you have for now trying to cast doubt on what she said she saw, at the time - NOT published later in anyone's book, etc.
Your paranoia is almost amusing. You were really interested in how the money was tied? Apart from the fact that I seem to recall a LOT of discussion on that topic - how does that square with your later post that you weren't interested in theories about anything except Duane? as you said:
QuoteAll of this talk about the chutes and the money is not going to solve this case - and tell us who Dan Cooper was.
The more I learn about Duane Weber the more confusing this gets.
Of course, it might simply be the case that different people have different opinions - that what you think is a "positive direction" may not be viewed as such by others, and vice versa. People will naturally keep posting on what they find interesting or think will actually lead somewhere, and let other topics drop.
By the way, I do think your insistence on trying to keep facts from fiction is commendable. I also think what's good for the goose is good for the gander, so perhaps you would try stick to that rule too?
And a final PS: it gets really tiresome when you start accusing, directly or indirectly, anyone whose thoughts you don't seem to like of being previous posters, authors incognito, etc. I see the mere mention of Mayfield has brought that up again. Tell you what: you keep on asking people to prove that Duane Weber wasn't Cooper. Why don't you prove that Mayfield wasn't Cooper? You say that previous discussions dismissed him - I am not entirely convinced yet that he wasn't, and from a couple of PM conversations I have had I know he is still considered a possibility by others (old time jumpers, not authors etc).
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
georger 197
QuoteThere were no belly bands given with the chest chutes.
REPLY:
Thanks.
snowmman 3
Okay. you jumpers have talked about how tight the community is, and how everyone knows everyone, and us nonjumpers just don't quite understand.
Well, I'm kind of flabbergasted right now (and feel like the outsider Hoop likes to describe). I posted those pics of Brett Maurer's first jump, which was off El Cap. I didn't have any background on it other than the caption from the '84 article. I mentioned that some pics of Robin Heid were also in Leavitt's article, along with Rob Slater.
And then what do you know? I get a PM from XXXXX XXXXX giving the details. I'm blown away..feels like just 1 or 2 degrees of Kevin Bacon :)
What's interesting from the Cooper angle was that there was prior tunnel time (a little). So more pre-jump training than I thought.
(Sections redacted at request of the original author.)
Well, I'm kind of flabbergasted right now (and feel like the outsider Hoop likes to describe). I posted those pics of Brett Maurer's first jump, which was off El Cap. I didn't have any background on it other than the caption from the '84 article. I mentioned that some pics of Robin Heid were also in Leavitt's article, along with Rob Slater.
And then what do you know? I get a PM from XXXXX XXXXX giving the details. I'm blown away..feels like just 1 or 2 degrees of Kevin Bacon :)
What's interesting from the Cooper angle was that there was prior tunnel time (a little). So more pre-jump training than I thought.
(Sections redacted at request of the original author.)
georger 197
I see the mere mention of Mayfield has brought that up again. Tell you what: you keep on asking people to prove that Duane Weber wasn't Cooper. Why don't you prove that Mayfield wasn't Cooper? You say that previous discussions dismissed him - I am not entirely convinced yet that he wasn't, and from a couple of PM conversations I have had I know he is still considered a possibility by others (old time jumpers, not authors etc).
REPLY>
I think Cooper was not known or well-known in
the jumping community in WA and OR, and was
from out of that area. Mayfield was not Cooper.
He strikes me as more the accomplice-type and
since he was not seen in the Scholls airfield area
or anywhere else in a compromised situation, very
likely Cooper is as much a mystery to Mayfield as
to the rest of the world. I think Mayfield would have
jumped at the chance to sovle this and turn Cooper
in to collect a reward, if he could have.
That does not mean he wouldnt have had insight to give in this matter and perhaps he did. Mayfield and
H got to know each other pretty well.
But Mayfield was/is too easy a target - a natural
target. He's the wrong personality type to do something like this in his own back yard. Mayfield
has always had strong social connections which he
values. Cooper probably came from the opposite
condition -
George
But If Cossey dealt with sport pilot's rigs he might have something like a one page instruction sheet on hand. He might give them out to aerobatic pilots as they must wear parachutes and most have no parachuting experience or formal training. And that's another point. Think of all the emergency parachute jumps, both civilian and military, done since parachutes were invented. More often than not they were successful and more often than not they were done by people who had never jumped before . . .
NickD
REPLY> I wasnt there but yours above or something along those lines is my guess and I am assuming
the 'cards' were in the NB6's only because Cossey
placed them there on purpose at his home.
I have three different versions of how the chutes
were procured - all versions close in detail. The front packs came from the jump school after hours.
Cossey was not there. One of the staff supplied those, pulled them off a shelf and that is how the training pack got thrown in by mistake. Cossey discovered this later because he knew what packs
were on the shelves in specific places.
Cossey was at home and supplied the 2 NB6 back
packs at his home, they were rushed to the airport.
Cossey may have thrown the instruction cards in just
to be safe, complete, or to cover himself legally ? Only Cossey could explain and Im sure he already has, to someone. .
But somebody calls you up and says they want four parachutes in an emergency, so what do you do?
From Cossey's viewpoint only God knew where these
chutes would wind up and be used, et cetera ...
with who being legally liable should anything go wrong. I can see Master Rigger Cossey throwing some instruction cards in ... I would! That Cooper
tossed the cards aside saying 'I dont need to read
those' (or whatever) means nothing in and of itself.
(He also jumped and down like a kid at the sight of $200000 in a bag, in the middle of a hijacking, so
Im not prone to give Coop to much credit on the
scale of rationality or experience.)
The only thing that smacks of experience is Tina's statement that Coop dawned the NB6 with ease as
if he had done it before.
But, Cooper did not specify anything about the chutes he wanted. Nada. (He did not ask for V23 either).
The fact that he had to cut lines at all (2) and made a hand hold loop out of one of those would seem to
select against Cossey having supplied belly straps
etc. Cossey may have simply supplied packs without
anything attached to them - Cossey would know.
He asked for a knapsack but he didnt get that either
and he didnt complain about it.
We all know his reserves were pointless anyway. So
if you think about this he had two ready containers
which would have held (together) all the money and
more. Instead we find this guy fumbling around
as Tina describes finally cutting lines and trying to
tie the bank bag around his waste? That is amateur
stuff!
And he actually takes a reserve pack with him! What
in blazes did he think he would do with that? Need it?
Something does not add up for Cooper being an experienced chutist.
George
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