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quade

DB Cooper

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I have let my cable subscription lapse. This forum is more entertaining and it's free.

377



Cable - what's that?
This is the most fun I have had in this forum.

BTW Cable is a sensiless waste of money to watch an average of 2 hours per day.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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[
What drives me nuts is the Tena Bar find. How do we write that into the script. I am eager to hear Galen Cook's story on this aspect of the case. it had better be good.

Weber, Mayfield, McCoy... they can all have a role in the story as suspects. You don't know until the end who Cooper really is.

377



OR: It could be a ending with no ending - let the public decide with a postage free vote they recieve with each ticket purchased.

When it wins the Emmy they announce who Cooper was - everyone wins and everyone plays.

This way the audience gets their two cents in - just like the forum had done.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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post 1087 of the old thread. From skyjack71. Before I arrived here. I just found it and smiled at the coincidence.

"Before we hit I-5 he pointed down a road and told me about a tavern at Dollars Corner and that he knew a man there. I went to Dollar Corner in 2001 and asked a lot of questions. One man (named Snow) pulled me aside and gave me the directions and the a man I was to find. He claimed to have remembered the man in the picture I showed and that he used to get up and sing with the band...and that this other man was a hermit type but that he knew him....the crew and I never found the man and they had a schedule. I also did not have time to go back on my own with the ladies (one was an undercover Narco off-duty doing this as a favor)."



:)I would never have taken the time to find that.

You guys are being too kind today - what is going on?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo, seems odd that one more time, Duane was near a skydiving center "Loveland" just a few miles from Collins
......
Just a little error on the keyboard.
We lived in Ft. Collins Co and he got a DUI there in 1979 or maybe early 1980.
.................



We lived in lots of places. Denver CO, Fort Collins CO, Mobile AL, Atlanta, GA, Virgiania Bch. VA, and Birminham AL.

In every place we lived we traveled to make our living - so we were always in the road - there would be Skydiving Centers around - it was just a matter of chance I think and not by plan. We only attended 1 event in our marriage related to skydiving.

His teminology when they wanted him to take a management position in 1984 or 83 in Va? This position required he train a crew of men - he did not want to take it - he saidB| "I have to keep a low profile" .

:)but I do now. This was about the time the books hit the stands. - Norjak and D.B. Cooper What Really Happened.

I had a discussion with him about why he didn't want to take the position - I thought it was the jail time he had admitted to after the dream. I remember telling if his 2 months in a county jail had not caught up with him in all those yrs. that it was not likely to do so. He got really really drunk and a wk later accepted the position...and he was very sucessful in that position - he never dreamt he could make that kind of money.

He immediately grew a thick head of hair and a moustache. Yuck!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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I just wonder if McCoy's "at home in Utah" alibi was corrobrated by evidence other than just family and friends testimony. I could see a frustrated McCoy- Cooper losing the loot on the first caper and deciding to do it over and do it right. McCoy makes such a perfect Cooper. Could he have arranged a false alibi?



clicky

Alibi:

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Calame also believes that McCoy's alibi - that he was in Provo enjoying Thanksgiving dinner with his family- is disputable, and could have been fabricated by members of McCoy's family to protect both McCoy and themselves.

Rhodes and Calame allege in their book that McCoy had gone to Las Vegas to gamble away the marked bills scored in the Cooper hijacking, and never would have made it back in time to Provo, where McCoy said he was cooking the Thanksgiving turkey all day.

"Only members of the family, I think, said that he was home for Thanksgiving dinner. I don't think there was anyone else that said that," Calame said.

A credit card slip proves that McCoy purchased 5.6 gallons of gas for his Volkswagen bug on Nov. 25, 1971, at the Power Thrust Service Station just south of the Tropicana Hotel in Las Vegas, and verifies his license plate number at this location.

"We also have a phone call, which was made from one of the hotels in Las Vegas to his home number [at 10:41 p.m. on Nov. 25]," he said.



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Rhodes and Calame believe McCoy's hijacking, just five months later, shares too many similarities with Cooper's to be a mere coincidence.

Logistically, both hijackings were similar. During the escapade, both men sat in almost the exact same spot on the airplane. And, the refueling instructions given by both Cooper and McCoy direct the fuel truck to nearly the same position.

Just before their final jumps, both men also used U.S. interstates as landmarks for instructing their pilots where to fly.

The attire of Cooper and McCoy aboard the jets also matches. Both wore dark business suits with narrow lapels, white shirts, and conservative, thin ties. The sunglasses both men used to hide their eyes are described the same- as dark wrap-around shades.

Conveniently, both take-overs happened close to holidays, when BYU students were on vacation. And during the week of the Cooper skyjacking, McCoy, a member of the Utah National Guard, missed his guard duty

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Jo,
What does knowing what time the helicopter got airborne and where it turned back to Portland tell you about anything? If you want to elaborate on the point you are trying to make that would be great. Thanks.



++++++
It was just another piece of information - I don't know if it would prove anything, but just one more thing to pull into the analysis.
Something that had not been mentioned before.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Ed Daly loved to drink and loved to shoot his gun (just shoot it, not shoot it at someone), usually at the same time which reportedly got him in trouble with the law a couple of times. I met his personal pilot and got a tour of Ed's plane at Oakland CA back in the 80s. You'd think with tons of money and a huge maintenance base at Oakland, Ed would have the sleekest corp jet of the day at his disposal. Nope. His personal plane was an absolutely immaculate Convair 340 with two R 2800 radial piston engines and a well stocked bar. It had all the latest avionics including a Collins HF SSB radio and had recently flown to Europe... slowly. That was one sweet propliner.




What has any of this to do with DB Cooper?

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I had made reference to the US 1970 census data.
The 136 page document is available online.
http://www2.census.gov/prod2/statcomp/documents/1970-02.pdf
there are 9 sections, you can change the -2 at the end to 1-9, or look here and select them...you only need the -2 though, I think...there is a 67M 1970.zip there that has it all, if you're obsessive.
http://www2.census.gov/prod2/statcomp/documents/


Here's the breakdown by age groups in WA in 1970.
It's a reasonable guess that half of the number are male. (OR numbers are about 2/3 of these but similar)

one could estimate that there were about 100k males in the 45-50 age group in WA in 1970.

Washington 100,000's (page 25)
280 under 5 years
608 5-13 years
271 14-17 years
192 18-20 years
232 21-24 years
432 25-34 years
374 35-44 years
393 45-54 years
305 55-64 years
191 65-74 years
131 75 and over

I'm just reporting how the data is broken out here, kind of a sign of the times that they broke out black and everyone else?
wash, excluding black (page 28)
1,655,910 male
1,681,951 female

only about 70.5k black in WA in 1970

98.5 males per 100 females

total 3,409,000

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Ed Daly loved to drink and loved to shoot his gun (just shoot it, not shoot it at someone), usually at the same time which reportedly got him in trouble with the law a couple of times. I met his personal pilot and got a tour of Ed's plane at Oakland CA back in the 80s. You'd think with tons of money and a huge maintenance base at Oakland, Ed would have the sleekest corp jet of the day at his disposal. Nope. His personal plane was an absolutely immaculate Convair 340 with two R 2800 radial piston engines and a well stocked bar. It had all the latest avionics including a Collins HF SSB radio and had recently flown to Europe... slowly. That was one sweet propliner.




What has any of this to do with DB Cooper?



It brings up one thought.
Theory: Cooper didn't own or shoot a gun.

If he did, I would think he would have brought it and displayed it on the hijack? Just my bias when thinking of personalities/behaviors. People can chime in with thoughts.

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McCoy was heavily debated in a forum on Unsolved Mysteries - it was locked down because of a guy claiming McCoy was Cooper and then he kept switching sides - this turned out to the the same person who took Mayfield out as a suspect.

It was long and boring - DBCoopercatcher as he called himself made life for everyone there miserable - eventually he managed without my help to get the thread locked down.

It has been proven time and time again that McCoy could not be Cooper---right at this moment I don't want to try to look it up. Go read that old forum - I think it might still be available to read and then decide if you really want this forum and this thread to go that way.

It was cut-throat all the way. Spare yourself and everyone else.
Go read the whole thread (will take you days.) - you will find the answer there. It came down to improbabilities - no way he could get from point A to point B in the time involved and he was on duty with his unit.

It wasn't possible except in the mind of an FBI agent who wanted to write the great American novel.
This FBI agent was able to access evidence. This agent took the tie to the wife who did not live in Wa. Ckret says the tie did not leave the office - so it is who you believe - the family, the agent or the FBI.

It was in this same time frame the cigarette butts came up missing ... dna was starting find it's place in crime solving. Odd is it not?

I am only stating things that have been said before - read it and make your report back to the forum.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/16-07/pb_theory

"All models are wrong, but some are useful."

So proclaimed statistician George Box 30 years ago, and he was right. But what choice did we have? Only models, from cosmological equations to theories of human behavior, seemed to be able to consistently, if imperfectly, explain the world around us. Until now. Today companies like Google, which have grown up in an era of massively abundant data, don't have to settle for wrong models. Indeed, they don't have to settle for models at all.

Sixty years ago, digital computers made information readable. Twenty years ago, the Internet made it reachable. Ten years ago, the first search engine crawlers made it a single database. Now Google and like-minded companies are sifting through the most measured age in history, treating this massive corpus as a laboratory of the human condition. They are the children of the Petabyte Age.
...
This is a world where massive amounts of data and applied mathematics replace every other tool that might be brought to bear. Out with every theory of human behavior, from linguistics to sociology. Forget taxonomy, ontology, and psychology. Who knows why people do what they do? The point is they do it, and we can track and measure it with unprecedented fidelity. With enough data, the numbers speak for themselves.
...
There is now a better way. Petabytes allow us to say: "Correlation is enough." We can stop looking for models. We can analyze the data without hypotheses about what it might show. We can throw the numbers into the biggest computing clusters the world has ever seen and let statistical algorithms find patterns where science cannot.

The best practical example of this is the shotgun gene sequencing by J. Craig Venter. Enabled by high-speed sequencers and supercomputers that statistically analyze the data they produce, Venter went from sequencing individual organisms to sequencing entire ecosystems. In 2003, he started sequencing much of the ocean, retracing the voyage of Captain Cook. And in 2005 he started sequencing the air. In the process, he discovered thousands of previously unknown species of bacteria and other life-forms.
...
Learning to use a "computer" of this scale may be challenging. But the opportunity is great: The new availability of huge amounts of data, along with the statistical tools to crunch these numbers, offers a whole new way of understanding the world. Correlation supersedes causation, and science can advance even without coherent models, unified theories, or really any mechanistic explanation at all.

There's no reason to cling to our old ways. It's time to ask: What can science learn from Google?

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It brings up one thought.
Theory: Cooper didn't own or shoot a gun.

If he did, I would think he would have brought it and displayed it on the hijack? Just my bias when thinking of personalities/behaviors. People can chime in with thoughts.



More speculation. Has been brought up many times.
Cooper never displayed a firearm, unless Ckret knows
something not on Suggo's website.

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Okay…

You are all fired. Turn in your badge and weapon.

Snowman has been posting (off and on) on this forum for about three months. You guys haven’t figured out (yet) what his screen-name is.

It isn’t Snowman, or snowman. Not snow-man, or Snow-Man.

His screen name is “snowmman”!

You’re gonna have to get a lot sharper if you’re gonna solve this case.

Sluggo


By the way, he is a first-cousin to waterboardmman.




REPLY:

GORT. KLATU BARADA NIKTU ?

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Okay…

You are all fired. Turn in your badge and weapon.

Snowman has been posting (off and on) on this forum for about three months. You guys haven’t figured out (yet) what his screen-name is.

It isn’t Snowman, or snowman. Not snow-man, or Snow-Man.

His screen name is “snowmman”!

You’re gonna have to get a lot sharper if you’re gonna solve this case.

Sluggo


By the way, he is a first-cousin to waterboardmman.




REPLY:

GORT. KLATU BARADA NIKTU ?



it goes both ways, doesn't it? "you are" "no, you are" "no you are"

(edit) alternate theory attached
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/april2006/research/2006_04_research01.htm

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Ed Daly loved to drink and loved to shoot his gun (just shoot it, not shoot it at someone), usually at the same time which reportedly got him in trouble with the law a couple of times. I met his personal pilot and got a tour of Ed's plane at Oakland CA back in the 80s. You'd think with tons of money and a huge maintenance base at Oakland, Ed would have the sleekest corp jet of the day at his disposal. Nope. His personal plane was an absolutely immaculate Convair 340 with two R 2800 radial piston engines and a well stocked bar. It had all the latest avionics including a Collins HF SSB radio and had recently flown to Europe... slowly. That was one sweet propliner.




What has any of this to do with DB Cooper?



A fair question. Not much actually, just a very tangential relevance to guys who have stood on deployed airstairs of moving 727s. It seemed more on point when I was on my fourth cup of coffee... OD of caffeine can make you see clear patterns in utter chaos. Gotta switch to decaf.

That being said, once in a while a random cosmic ray produces a gene mutation that is beneficial. The same kind of thing happens in this forum from time to time. Something out of left field will trigger a few neurons in Sluggo, Snowmman or another contributor and we are on to something relevant and new.

If I don't like a post, I just skip it rather than criticizing it. Things have been amazingly cordial here lately, which makes Quade's job easier. Still, it's always open season on off topic ducks (quack quack) and you are free to take a shot.

This isn't rigourous science, law enforcement or academic inquiry. It's fun, entertaining and might even solve the case. The average IQ here is pretty high and you never know what the collective forum brain might figure out.

PAX GORT.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Jo, have you tried looking at Goggle Earth satellite images. I was just playing around on there following some of you directions and you can see quite a bit.



I have a real hard time with maps on the computer. What I need is an up to date ground map the same size and area as this old Topography map - to lay one over the other and then we get roads and houses and all of those things that would be like my making a trip there and then I might find the exact roads we turned on and off of. I would be able to pin-point the things and the places he took me. It would be better if the the google map was also dated 1979.

The map I am working with is 1:100 000- scale metric of Vancouver, Wa It is a geological survey map.

Wow, to be able to overlay two maps like that - would be a dream come true.



Jo Goggle Earth is not a map but satellite image. You can choose to have it show you roads. I have looked around a bunch where you have talked about and the detail of the satellite image is very good. You can easily find railroad tracks and power lines.
“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th

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In reference to McCoy, everyone associated with him, family, babysitter and friend from school, put McCoy in Provo for Thanksgiving dinner. If more than you know your secret, it's going to get out.
People who don't have a vested relationship with McCoy would not lie for him, so their statements seem valid. He also does not match the physical description of Cooper. Because of the money find we know Cooper lost all of it in the jump. So going to Vegas to launder the stolen cash is out. There's more but it's boring so I won't waste your time.

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" Because of the money find we know Cooper lost all of it in the jump. "


Alright Ckret I've got to call you out on that one. You know as well as anyone else that until ALL the money is found we will never KNOW what happened to all of itB|

“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th

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Every time I find an H. quote vehemently stating who Cooper wasn't, I say to myself..."Okay that's who Cooper was"
(edit)
NOW WHY THE HECK DID H. SAY 48 HERE?



Because, according to Ralph (as he has said elsewhere), 48 was the median age estimated by eyewitnesses who claimed to have seen Cooper. The estimates ranged from early 40s to mid-50s, but 48 was the median.



Thanks. Are you theorizing, or did you talk to Ralph?



I saw a TV interview in which he said it. I think it is - or at least used to be - up on youtube.

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Thanks for the response Ckret. I figured that McCoy was such a strong suspect that it would take more than a weak alibi to clear him.

Darn, McCoy was the perfect Cooper if you ignore the physical description mismatch.

Alibis can be strong (e.g. many independent witnesses and physical evidence corroborating) or weak (e.g. a single corroborating witness who has a relationship with the accused).

Steven Soliah, who the FBI is absolutely certain was a participant in the fatal SLA bank robbery in Carmichael CA, had a weak alibi (only his girlfriend testified in support of his alibi) but was aqutitted by a jury.

McCoy's alibi appears much stronger than Soliah's. Even if you doubted McCoy's innocence, not much point prosecuting someone you can't convict.

I am sure your statement that the Tena bar money find proves Cooper lost all the money in the jump will stir things up.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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REPLY: Tina knew "giddy" first hand. She knew what
it implied, in the context of the money.



I understand that. I'm not contradicting her account by saying that the guy probably didn't show a certain amount of joyous emotion upon seeing the money. What I'm saying is that I think it's potentially easy and tempting for someone who wasn't there and who is looking for any sign of a possible clue to read too much into her description.

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Because of the money find we know Cooper lost all of it in the jump.


Crket, because roughly 3% of the money was found we know for certain that Cooper lost the other 97%?



There are some statisticians who would argue that Ckret is absolutely correct. The same ones who work for plaintiff's attorneys seeking to convince juries that smoke alarms cause cancer, AgHg dental fillings cause Lupus and MS, and that overheated Teflon cookware causes every disease known to man.
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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