DB Cooper

[itllclear 1]

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Are sport chutes not reliable?

Let's just say that a parachute dedicated to emergency use (a pilot rig) might be considered more reliable than a sport main.

The emergency rig has to be packed by a licensed FAA rigger, while a sport main may be packed by the person making the jump.

If Cooper had experience walking around the back of a plane dropping objects, he would have been wearing a pilot emergency rig, not a sport rig. The sport rig would have modifications unfamiliar to a load master.

It makes sense to stick with something familiar.

"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."

"Your statement answered your question."

[Ckret 0]

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Are sport chutes not reliable?

Let's just say that a parachute dedicated to emergency use (a pilot rig) might be considered more reliable than a sport main.

The emergency rig has to be packed by a licensed FAA rigger, while a sport main may be packed by the person making the jump.

If Cooper had experience walking around the back of a plane dropping objects, he would have been wearing a pilot emergency rig, not a sport rig. The sport rig would have modifications unfamiliar to a load master.

It makes sense to stick with something familiar.

Sounds like you have background in this, thanks for jumping in. Can anyone confirm that load masters wear PER's when working. Of coures you have go back to the 50's, what did they wear in the 50's?

Snowmman? the search king, can you get this.

This goes to the theory then that Cooper chose the best chute base on Cooper's experience, but not the best gear available. This then proves, or adds another piece to the puzzle, that Cooper was not an experienced skydiver.

[Albert18 0]

I wonder if load masters were given jump training so they knew what to do if they did fall out of the airplane.

If I know the military they just said, "Here, wear this." "But what do I do if I actually have to use it." "Don't worry about it."

[snowmman 3]

thanks Jo for sharing those new pics.
I can imagine it's tough sharing all these details of your private life with Duane.

[snowmman 3]

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Sounds like you have background in this, thanks for jumping in. Can anyone confirm that load masters wear PER's when working. Of coures you have go back to the 50's, what did they wear in the 50's?

Snowmman? the search king, can you get this.

I did good research on boom operators on refuel tankers that I was surprised no one jumped on. You can search back to find what I posted. I couldn't understand why no one responded. So I'm not going to research anything about load masters.

[happythoughts 0]

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You know if Cooper were still alive he'd be reading this and other forums that feature him. The temptation would be too great.

I support the idea that Cooper would follow any internet discussion of exploits.

Another aspect is that we are continually coming up with "theories" about what he thinks, who he was, motives, plans, etc. After a while, a person would want to clear some stuff up anonymously.

He'd want to say that he wasn't nuts/suicidal/whatever (even if they are, many crazy people mistakenly think they are sane also).

At some point, he'd give us some explanation of some tidbits because it would be too irritating to repeatedly read the misinterpretations.

However, this is the internet. My dad is in a rest home. They get a free class on Wednesdays on how to use a computer. A lot of the people in the 75-85 group do not understand email. Google is a mystery.
So, Cooper may not know how to use a computer.

Second, death. He actually may have passed on.
Car accidents, age, disease, poor landing in a tree in the Pacific northwest.

He may have been a habitual loser and got caught for a second crime and spent his remaining years in prison, hence no money spent.

[Mr.Nuke 0]

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I am glad you brought up flaps at 30, I found another log that references 30. If someone is up for scanning the docs I'll fax it to you. The time line if I recall is aft light on at 7:42, wheels up was 7:36

How many pages are we talking about?

[snowmman 3]

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He'd want to say that he wasn't nuts/suicidal/whatever (even if they are, many crazy people mistakenly think they are sane also).

This is an interesting theory happythoughts. Although it sounds along the lines of the 377/vanity theory...i.e. paperback book psychology?

Can you explain more. I'm wondering if there's a theory about Cooper we can extract. Are you saying he was concerned about how the world perceived him?

Otherwise it would be better to be perceived as nuts in case he was caught, right?

I didn't really follow your line of thought.

[snowmman 3]

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A lot of the people in the 75-85 group do not understand email. Google is a mystery.

Do you have statistics? My dad is in that age group and his computer use capabilities match mine. I have other examples.

Why would we care about this particular statistic anyhow? We only need one Cooper. Not 10,000.

[happythoughts 0]

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I wonder if load masters were given jump training so they knew what to do if they did fall out of the airplane.

Cooper was agitated when the fuel truck had a vapor lock and spent too much time fueling. So, he knew the appropriate amount of time that it takes to fuel. I've flown commercial air and wouldn't know.

When doing loadmaster work and pushing stuff out, they fly around and then, on jump run, they slow down.
I wonder what the standard speed and flap settings are ?

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

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However, this is the internet. My dad is in a rest home. They get a free class on Wednesdays on how to use a computer. A lot of the people in the 75-85 group do not understand email. Google is a mystery.
So, Cooper may not know how to use a computer.

Second, death. He actually may have passed on.
Car accidents, age, disease, poor landing in a tree in the Pacific northwest.

He may have been a habitual loser and got caught for a second crime and spent his remaining years in prison, hence no money spent.

happythoughts ,

You got me thinking (that’s dangerous).

I know from experi…. Ah… umm… I’ve been told, that sometimes when a person has knowledge of something that they learned in an activity covered by the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 as amended 1999 (NUREG-0980), and they want to get (their version) of the truth out to the public, they write a piece of fiction. I’m sure this is true of other “Official Secrets Acts” as well. So, why wouldn’t it be true for Cooper.

Has anybody out there read any bad fiction (magazine article, short story, book, etc.) that made Cooper seem like his crime was justified, heroic, clever, patriotic, etc.?

I know it’s a long shot, but maintaining an occult identity is easier by the use of a “Nom de plume” than posting on the internet. Because, if your contract with the publisher dictates that your real identity remain unknown, it would probably (I’ll get 377’s opinion on this) take a court order to find out who the author really is.

And, of course, if it was written before about 1990, the internet wouldn't have been a factor.

Just some quick thoughts.

Sluggo (Counting down the hours)

And thanks for all the kind words, it helps make the frustration worthwhile.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[happythoughts 0]

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He'd want to say that he wasn't nuts/suicidal/whatever (even if they are, many crazy people mistakenly think they are sane also).

This is an interesting theory happythoughts. Although it sounds along the lines of the 377/vanity theory...i.e. paperback book psychology?

Can you explain more. I'm wondering if there's a theory about Cooper we can extract. Are you saying he was concerned about how the world perceived him?

Otherwise it would be better to be perceived as nuts in case he was caught, right?

I didn't really follow your line of thought.

Just noting a variety of theories that I have seen posted. Source of the need for money has been described as bankruptcy, drug addiction, gambling. His demeanor state described as disturbed, angry, pleasant, or mentally ill.

If people were posting that I was mentally ill, then I'd want to logon with a fake id and clear up the motivations part.

Let's face it, McCoy did it two months later because he had the training (ex-airborne, sport skydiver, VN vet, jungles, survival).
If Cooper was untrained, then that is a pretty desperate and stupid way to get the money. Rob a bank robbery and drive away in a car.

[snowmman 3]

When I first read the transcripts, I thought it was very clear that Cooper didn't ask for the stairs down on takeoff, and that Flt Ops/crew got into the discussion because they didn't believe in deployment in the air.

I always thought that Cooper asked for the aft door open and stairs deployed in flight.

I went along with Ckret's insistence that Cooper asked for stairs deployed on takeoff, assuming there must be some other interviews that haven't been released.

Then I thought "What if people misremembered on their interviews...what if the transcripts (real time) are actually the best source of data for what Cooper actually asked for"

Ckret: can you reference the passage in the transcripts that tells you Cooper asked for stairs deployed on takeoff?

My thinking is based on page 11 of the transcripts

[happythoughts 0]

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A lot of the people in the 75-85 group do not understand email. Google is a mystery.

Do you have statistics? My dad is in that age group and his computer use capabilities match mine. I have other examples.

Why would we care about this particular statistic anyhow? We only need one Cooper. Not 10,000.

No statistics at all. People had mentioned that he may be reading this site, or other sites, and following discussions of his exploits.

It is just as valid to assume that he may be sitting at home watching Wheel of Fortune and eating cheese-curls.

(I printed up size 14-font instructions on how to use the DVD player for the people on my dads floor. They love me.)

[snowmman 3]

No matter what, the Cooper event directly led to people doing a number of hijacks in 1972, that might not have occurred if it wasn't for the Cooper stunt.

So even if Cooper's individual act could be debated, possibly because of mental state, the effect it had, was clearly criminal.

Everything each one of us does, has ripple effects, and yes we should all feel some sort of responsibility for them, good and bad.

[Ckret 0]

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Sounds like you have background in this, thanks for jumping in. Can anyone confirm that load masters wear PER's when working. Of coures you have go back to the 50's, what did they wear in the 50's?

Snowmman? the search king, can you get this.

I did good research on boom operators on refuel tankers that I was surprised no one jumped on. You can search back to find what I posted. I couldn't understand why no one responded. So I'm not going to research anything about load masters.

It is my understanding boom operators are enclosed in the tail of the refueling tanker, I don't know how it would equate to a load master.

"So I'm not going to research anything about load masters.

[snowmman 3]

Any KC-135 boom operators or anecdotes out there?
People chime in with info/applicability? I wanted to maybe show that "loadmaster" sounds good, but there seems to have been other ways to have gained skill/some-knowledge acquisition of similar quality/applicability? (check the photo and read the full post for why)

But: I don't think boom operator meshes with future business man attire. Who knows though. Showing bias.

Attached photo of refuel, plus a cool c-130 cargo drop just cuz it was kool.

info off web: Note parachute training happened regularly.

The KC-135 Stratotanker is for aerial refuel. It was another deriviative of the 367-80 (Dash 80) program, as was the 707.

Note the refuel boom comes out the rear of the plane. There used to be some kind of escape spoiler for safe parachute exit?

The KC-135 crew members were trained to be able to grab/use parachutes for emergencies or some operations. They got annual parachute training. Now apparently they have a harness available for those operations and no parachute.

Only recently, the USAF announced that parachutes have been removed from KC-135 operation, because it's statistically safer to stay with the plane.

http://www.afrc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123087912


background/McChord connection:

The Boeing model 367-80 (Dash 80) was the basic design for the commercial 707 as well as the KC-135A Stratotanker. In 1954, USAF purchased the first 29 of its future fleet of 732. The first of these aircraft left the assembly line at Renton, Wash. July 18, 1956, and flew for the first time August 31, 1956.

The Strategic Air Command positioned a squadron of KC-135 tankers at McChord in June 15, 1960. The new unit, 22d Air Refueling Squadron, was an element of the 92d Bombardment Wing (Heavy) based at Fairchild AFB, WA. After a 2 year stay at McChord, the 22nd ARS was deactivated on July 1 1962.

[Ckret 0]

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When I first read the transcripts, I thought it was very clear that Cooper didn't ask for the stairs down on takeoff, and that Flt Ops/crew got into the discussion because they didn't believe in deployment in the air.

I always thought that Cooper asked for the aft door open and stairs deployed in flight.

I went along with Ckret's insistence that Cooper asked for stairs deployed on takeoff, assuming there must be some other interviews that haven't been released.

Then I thought "What if people misremembered on their interviews...what if the transcripts (real time) are actually the best source of data for what Cooper actually asked for"

Ckret: can you reference the passage in the transcripts that tells you Cooper asked for stairs deployed on takeoff?

My thinking is based on page 11 of the transcripts

It's not insisting, its me telling you what the crew said, I have no idea if they are right or worng, I can only tell you what they said and nothing in the investigation points to them lying about Cooper wanting the airstairs down for takeoff. They were all interviewed the night they got off the plane so I highly doubt their memory would have lapsed on such an issue

[snowmman 3]

I was wondering about anything we might have missed that could apply to the Cooper event.

People familar with the parallels between Long Kesh and Gitmo?

[happythoughts 0]

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So even if Cooper's individual act could be debated, possibly because of mental state, the effect it had, was clearly criminal.

In the days preceding the hijacking, a mass murderer named List killed his family to cover up a theft.

There were a lot of events that made sense.
His physical features were very similar.
He had also stolen the exact amount from his mothers bank account. Remember, $200K was a huge amount of money in a day where people made $12K a year.

He also died this year in jail.

It would put a check mark in a lot of boxes.
Desperate actions, crazy, exact amount of money needed to cover up a theft. Time in jail after the crime.

(Stealing from your mom... Jeez)

Good candidate for a fingerprint check.

[Orange1 0]

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But: I don't think boom operator meshes with future business man attire. Who knows though. Showing bias.

You criticize other people for being fixated on issues... why are you so fixated with what he was wearing? It had nothing to do with "business suit", it was just what people wore in those days. Plenty of posts attesting to that, including the one about just about every male who got off the plane was dressed just like that. All his dress tells us, at most, is that he didn't want to stand out from the crowd.

btw there is a whole section in the transcript where they are saying he wants the stairs down at take-off and 305/flight ops are talking about needing to convince him they should only be lowered after take-off... read from 5.47pm to 6.59pm.

Right, now i'm off for 2 weeks... nothing to do with sluggo... look forward to seeing what will have transpired in my absence

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

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In the days preceding the hijacking, a mass murderer named List killed his family to cover up a theft.

Interesting. So the mass murderer/Cooper profile overlapped? I must misunderstand the profile.

What was the profile in '71? I know it has changed to date.

Was there just no profile in '71?..i.e. it could be anyone, anything?

[377 20]

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Any KC-135 boom operators or anecdotes out there?
People chime in with info/applicability? I wanted to maybe show that "loadmaster" sounds good, but there seems to have been other ways to have gained skill/some-knowledge acquisition of similar quality/applicability? (check the photo and read the full post for why)

But: I don't think boom operator meshes with future business man attire. Who knows though. Showing bias.

Attached photo of refuel, plus a cool c-130 cargo drop just cuz it was kool.

info off web: Note parachute training happened regularly.

The KC-135 Stratotanker is for aerial refuel. It was another deriviative of the 367-80 (Dash 80) program, as was the 707.

Note the refuel boom comes out the rear of the plane. There used to be some kind of escape spoiler for safe parachute exit?

The KC-135 crew members were trained to be able to grab/use parachutes for emergencies or some operations. They got annual parachute training. Now apparently they have a harness available for those operations and no parachute.

Only recently, the USAF announced that parachutes have been removed from KC-135 operation, because it's statistically safer to stay with the plane.

http://www.afrc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123087912


background/McChord connection:

The Boeing model 367-80 (Dash 80) was the basic design for the commercial 707 as well as the KC-135A Stratotanker. In 1954, USAF purchased the first 29 of its future fleet of 732. The first of these aircraft left the assembly line at Renton, Wash. July 18, 1956, and flew for the first time August 31, 1956.

The Strategic Air Command positioned a squadron of KC-135 tankers at McChord in June 15, 1960. The new unit, 22d Air Refueling Squadron, was an element of the 92d Bombardment Wing (Heavy) based at Fairchild AFB, WA. After a 2 year stay at McChord, the 22nd ARS was deactivated on July 1 1962.

[Ckret 0]

if you follow the Weber aspect of this see attached, if you could care less don't bother. I sent away for a copy of his master prints.

[georger 197]

FDR Question to S-M & Ckret:

I want to confirm the FDR did not record any voices
aboard 305. True - False ?

Are there any voice recordings of 305's communications?

I know Ive asked this before but, are there ANY
recordings of Cooper's voice or any direct transcription
of things Cooper supposedly said, his actual language, as reported by Tina or Scott etc. ?