DB Cooper

[Orange1 0]

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HARD PULL QUESTION: Lets assume hard pull with nb6 and 28ft canopy, and his money bag tied around his waste. 377 has said below this is a very hard pull. Another has said bag around his waste might interfere with finding the rip cord at all.

From 10000 ft Im assuming roughly 60-90 seconds
of free fall with no chute deployed.

Let's assume hard pull and interference from the bag. Is it reasonable to assume you would try and shift the bag or even try and get rid of the bag or dump its contents simply trying to get his chute open.

What options do you see here?

Freefall time - rule of thumb is 10' for the first 1000ft and 5' for every 1000ft thereafter. So 10K with no pull gives you 55 seconds till impact, 50 till you win the "low pull" contest and manage to survive it. No way you would have time to "get rid" of the bag, presuming you had tied it tight enough to begin with.

Re tying around the waist - ckret has said he had the harness on before the plane took off, if i recall correctly, and it was later he was seen tying a bag around his waist - so it makes sense he would have tried to tie it onto (rather than over) the harness. Any of you NB6 alumni have a picture of a jumper in one of those rigs? And where was the ripcord on those rigs - hip?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Yoohoooo Ckret! CKRET! Hello! (jumps up and down to try attract Special Agent Lawrence D Carr's attention):

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Ckret, on another tack, was Mayfield ever formally identified as a suspect? Were his prints ever compared? He has a criminal record so presumably you (FBI) have them on file.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Ckret 0]

Mayfield is subject #3 out of 1057 and yes a full investigation was conducted to include far more than fingerprint analysis.

[Ckret 0]

From the witness statements and a bit of guess work, I think we can conclude Cooper did not tie the bag to his body.

He tied the neck of the bag by wrapping the cord around it, then used what was left to wrap around the bag, leaving a loop. I believe he clipped this loop into the harness, leaving the bag dangling from the harness not his waist.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

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From the witness statements and a bit of guess work, I think we can conclude Cooper did not tie the bag to his body.

He tied the neck of the bag by wrapping the cord around it, then used what was left to wrap around the bag, leaving a loop. I believe he clipped this loop into the harness, leaving the bag dangling from the harness not his waist.

Ckret,

I’m not trying to give you crap, I just need clarification. This statement is conjecture, right? Hence the term “guess work.”

Yours or someone else’s?

Is it based on information not (yet
Thanks for all you have done (and I hope will continue to do),

(Uncle) Sluggo

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[Orange1 0]

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Mayfield is subject #3 out of 1057 and yes a full investigation was conducted to include far more than fingerprint analysis.

Thanks

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Ckret 0]

Question about the NB6, now that we have an NB6 expert here. When I talked with Cossey he explained how he configured the chute but did so as if I knew what he was talking about. (you ever talk to someone with so much expertise they don't have the time or desire to take it down a notch)

He talked about a two phase pull because of where he placed the handle. (it would have been under the right armpit) He said Cooper would have had to pull fully out and then up to deploy the chute. If he only pulled the handle out the chute would not have delopyed.

Can someone tell me if this is normal? Why would there have been a two directional pull?

[skyjumpsteve 0]

Auction is over. The 15 bills went for a total of about $38,000 with the top 5 going for between $3,346 and $6,572 each. The cheapest one which was just a tiny piece of a bill showing the Federal Reservce letter went for $358. I really wanted one of the more complete bills but my cut-off was $3,000. Oh well.....maybe I will bid on the canopy when it is found.

[snowmman 3]

Maybe I'm just all caught up in this red state/blue state way of thinking, but I hate the way Sluggo's most excellent recent Analysis jpgs end with a blue tick.

It seems we really want to end with a red tick.

Is there data to end with a red tick? It doesn't matter how far you have to go for a red tick. Just need to end with it. (assuming the reliability of single red ticks are not in question...otherwise might want more than one red tick after Portland)

Sluggo?

[Ckret 0]

I am just trying to put myself in Coopers shoes. If I went through the trouble of making a loop it was done for a reason, the only logical reason is to clip it into the harness.

[snowmman 3]

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From the witness statements and a bit of guess work, I think we can conclude Cooper did not tie the bag to his body.

He tied the neck of the bag by wrapping the cord around it, then used what was left to wrap around the bag, leaving a loop. I believe he clipped this loop into the harness, leaving the bag dangling from the harness not his waist.

Interesting. Actually, the worse the bag tie-on, the better Cooper's survivability. i.e. no whapping him upside the head. Best for Cooper to loose the bag immediately.

[Ckret 0]

to clarify, the number assigned to Mayfield isn't a ranking, it's just he was named that early in the investigation.

[377 20]

Were these auctioned bills just from the portion of the money that the finder was allowed to keep? If so, there should be a lot more available... unless the insurance company or the bank was dumb enough to turn them in for new currency.

I am amazed that people would pay this much, but then I remember that piece of toast with the image of Jesus on it and how much that went for.

The price does tell you a LOT about whether everyone but us has forgotten about DB Cooper. The public fascination with the caper obviously endures.

What I'd like to have is the counterfeit Cooper-numbered bills that those con artists used to get a big advance from Newsweek or whatever the magazine was. That was pretty clever, but not clever enough to escape the long arm of the law. I think they served time for that caper.

I wonder how hard it would be to fake the data panel from the chute Cooper jumped? Riggers... your opinion?

I read a rumor that Perris was going to retire or sell their DC 9 jet. Can you imagine how expensive it must be to fly it with Jet A over $6 a gallon? Lt Diver, what is the real story?

Better hurry Ckret, your chances for a jet jump may be diminishing. I think the FBI should pay for your jump as part of the investigation. I'd bet they spent a fortune on those 727 sled drop tests with a chase plane and air to air camera work.

I hope someone is running Wolfgang's photo past Tina's eyes.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

377:

you're not clever enough.
The thing to fake was the sawed off machine gun that Cooper obviously had in the paper bag.

:)

Once you start going down all the "fake" scenarios, there is no limit to the imagination. There's not enough data to prove any "fake" is untrue. It's funny you focus on bills or chute.

What about Cooper's long underwear? (supposedly) or the girlfriend he had on the side? or the needle he used for that last good rush?

[377 20]

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to clarify, the number assigned to Mayfield isn't a ranking, it's just he was named that early in the investigation.

Wonder what number Bill Dause and Ralph Hatley have? You know how jumpers love list numbers, like SCR numbers, POPS numbers, BASE numbers? Imagine how prestigious it would be to have an OFFICIAL FBI COOPER SUSPECT NUMBER?

Ckret, PLEEEEASE PLEEEEASE put me on the list. I get no respect from the hotshots at the DZ and this would definitely solve that problem.

I visited Seattle in 1971 and I was even jumping surplus gear back then. Motives? Well, first would be a free jet jump. Second, I only had $1200 to my name at the time of the crime, provable by bank records. Come on Ckret, it's a small favor to ask.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[nitrochute 2]

the ripcord is on the left main liftweb, about where your reserve ripcord is on todays modern rigs.maybe a a few inches higher.but remember, the nb6/8 has a floating main liftweb and the reserve ripcord pocket is mounted on it, which could also make locating and pulling the ripcord more difficult,as the r/c pocket and main liftweb will move as you pull on the r/c handle.(would also buffet around in freefall)if the mainliftweb is really loose, it will take several inches of pull just to get the r/c handle out of the pocket,then you still have to pull on the ripcord to extract the closing pins and deploy the parachute

[377 20]

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377:

you're not clever enough.
The thing to fake was the sawed off machine gun that Cooper obviously had in the paper bag.

:)

Once you start going down all the "fake" scenarios, there is no limit to the imagination. There's not enough data to prove any "fake" is untrue. It's funny you focus on bills or chute.

What about Cooper's long underwear? (supposedly) or the girlfriend he had on the side? or the needle he used for that last good rush?

Great ideas Snowman. Let's get it going on eBay. Fortunes have been made with less clever ideas. I do think pieces of his chute would bring big bucks. Have you seen how much small pieces of the Space Shuttle booster rocket recovery chutes go for on eBay?

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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Great ideas Snowman. Let's get it going on eBay. Fortunes have been made with less clever ideas. I do think pieces of his chute would bring big bucks. Have you seen how much small pieces of the Space Shuttle booster rocket recovery chutes go for on eBay?

Didn't some of the moon rocks actually get into private hands? article here
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E3DC103FF936A1575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

32 were authorized into private hands by Congress
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/09/26/moon.rocks/

Imagine if you could convince someone you somehow got a rock NASA secretly retrieved from Mars but didn't want to inform the US because there was water and microbes detected on it.

Basically you see my point. Human imagination is boundless. Trying to pretend you can predict it is silly and a waste of time.

[377 20]

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the ripcord is on the left main liftweb, about where your reserve ripcord is on todays modern rigs.maybe a a few inches higher.but remember, the nb6/8 has a floating main liftweb and the reserve ripcord pocket is mounted on it, which could also make locating and pulling the ripcord more difficult,as the r/c pocket and main liftweb will move as you pull on the r/c handle.(would also buffet around in freefall)if the mainliftweb is really loose, it will take several inches of pull just to get the r/c handle out of the pocket,then you still have to pull on the ripcord to extract the closing pins and deploy the parachute

Nitro has some very good points. Another would be that an inexperienced person migh try to pull at right angles to the cable housing once the handle was extracted from the pocket. That would make a hard pull even harder.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

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to clarify, the number assigned to Mayfield isn't a ranking, it's just he was named that early in the investigation.

Wonder what number Bill Dause and Ralph Hatley have? You know how jumpers love list numbers, like SCR numbers, POPS numbers, BASE numbers? Imagine how prestigious it would be to have an OFFICIAL FBI COOPER SUSPECT NUMBER?

Ckret, PLEEEEASE PLEEEEASE put me on the list. I get no respect from the hotshots at the DZ and this would definitely solve that problem.

ckret, what number suspect was Guru??

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Ckret 0]

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the ripcord is on the left main liftweb, about where your reserve ripcord is on todays modern rigs.maybe a a few inches higher.but remember, the nb6/8 has a floating main liftweb and the reserve ripcord pocket is mounted on it, which could also make locating and pulling the ripcord more difficult,as the r/c pocket and main liftweb will move as you pull on the r/c handle.(would also buffet around in freefall)if the mainliftweb is really loose, it will take several inches of pull just to get the r/c handle out of the pocket,then you still have to pull on the ripcord to extract the closing pins and deploy the parachute

See what I mean, people with expertise just don't understand what it is like being normal.

[377 20]

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Great ideas Snowman. Let's get it going on eBay. Fortunes have been made with less clever ideas. I do think pieces of his chute would bring big bucks. Have you seen how much small pieces of the Space Shuttle booster rocket recovery chutes go for on eBay?

Didn't some of the moon rocks actually get into private hands? article here
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E3DC103FF936A1575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

32 were authorized into private hands by Congress
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E3DC103FF936A1575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Imagine if you could convince someone you somehow got a rock NASA secretly retrieved from Mars but didn't want to inform the US because there was water and microbes detected on it.

Basically you see my point. Human imagination is boundless. Trying to pretend you can predict it is silly and a waste of time.

Good point. Predicting public favor is difficult.

Did you know that we do have Mars rocks here? They are found in the Antarctic. They reach Earth by being ejected at speeds above orbital escape velocity from the Mars surface by meteor strikes. I didn't believe it when told but it is true. Also, there is a serious debate about microbe evidence contained in some of them. I think the items in dispute are just mineral formations, not anything generated by organic life forms, but I hardly know the difference between a molecule and an atom.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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I am just trying to put myself in Coopers shoes. If I went through the trouble of making a loop it was done for a reason, the only logical reason is to clip it into the harness.

Ckret is the best at making these hidden jokes. I think this might be the first time he referenced Cooper possibly making a "logical" decision. Good one!

[nitrochute 2]

i have never seen an nb6/8 with the ripcord located on the right side main liftweb(unless it was a military rig modified for use as a sport main parchute).it is designed (as all military pilot rigs are) with the ripcord on the left main liftweb.for the reasons that guru stated, it would be dangerous to have moved the r/c to the right side main liftweb (what we call an outboard pull)it exposes the r/c to a greater risk of snagging or getting grabbed by a student who is panicking.i think maybe cossey is either mistaken or getting senile. it DOES NOT make sense that he would have configured it that way.
as to the 2 stage pull.yes most any ripcord deployed system requires a 2 stage pull, the 1st stage is to remove the handle from its pocket, the second stage is actually to pull on the handle to extract the pins and open the container.the direction of pull to extract the pins depends on the type of rig. a backpack you pull down and out toward your feet .that is because the metal r/c housing(,the metal tube that the ripcord cable travels in to go from the front of the harness to the top of the parachute container,)travels up and over your left shoulder on a back type parachute.[right shoulder if outboard pull].if you pull sideways ,there is so much friction between the r/c cable and the housing that you may not be able to pull it.the pull that cossey suggested is for a seat type parchute where the r/c housing comes up from the left side of the seat pack (on your butt) to the left side main lift web.i have never seen a stock military harness backpack(from that era) where the r/c housing comes off the bottom of the container and then upwards toward the main liftweb.

[Guru312 0]

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ckret, what number suspect was Guru??

Well, duh! Obviously number 312.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper