D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

I didn't mean to imply that Cooper thought fingerprints could be lifted from fabric... otherwise he would have thrown away the cigarettes, unless those were planted too (though I'd doubt this).

What I meant was the clasp or the clip.

I agree with you regarding better choices of items to leave behind other than people saw him wear a tie & it's reasonably conclusive that Cooper wore the one left behind. What other item would be better to leave behind? His attache case (that he carried on?) a phony pair of shoes? Maybe the battery to the bomb? What I'm getting at is there's not too many items that Cooper could have left behind if the goal was to leave exculpatory prints and have them reasonably linked to Cooper. A tie, with the clasp still on it & having been used/worn by multiple males could easily fit the idea... but it assumes Cooper thought prints could be lifted from the metallic portions of the tie.

What about the drinking glass??? You mentioned it was partially spilt. Was it wiped clean? Is that how it spilled? Did the alcohol that spilled ruin the possibility of getting prints? Was the glass wiped??? Answer this and you might be able to destroy the idea that the tie was left behind purposely with the intent of leaving exculpatory evidence.

If Cooper leaves his prints on that glass, then the idea of him purposely leaving the tie to mislead authorities (or get himself reasonable doubt should he ever get caught) goes flying out of the plane just like Cooper. It would get really far fetched to think that Cooper retrieved someone else's glass from a different flight and brought it with him to plant on flight 305.

Do you think there's any relation to any of the donors on the tie? In other words, are two or more of the donors genetically related?? It's a long shot.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

The DNA on the tie proves one thing (if he truly wore it)...

Cooper was poor.

He either purchased this second hand or he stole it. How else do you have multiple male donors?

The only other reasonable answer is that the evidence was mishandled at some point in the last 36 years.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

I'd add one more thing to my assertion that Cooper was poor due to multiple DNA on the tie.

The simple fact that it was a clip-on would insinuate a less sophisticated Cooper.

I can't speak to how things were in 1971, but a grown man wearing a clip-on tie as part of his regular job/dressing up just doesn't sound right to me. I could be way off here, and I know it. I will say with some confidence though, that a guy who wears a clip on does not have the sophistication that a person who wears a regular tie has.

Call it socioeconomic background, call it hating the feeling of a tie (which you wouldn't get from a clip on) but I just don't see a life long business professional wearing such a tie.

Take these two factors: clip on & multiple DNA, and I'm thinking Cooper wasn't too well off economically.

A black raincoat would also suggest lower economic status. Most high end business professionals & executives didn't wear black raincoats, they wore beige. (for reference, see some of Malloy's older writings)

I also don't see a reason why he needed to remove the tie, since it was a clip on. The only thing I can think of is that it would allow him to loosen his collar. Is his collar that intrusive in putting on the harness? I'm not sold. I'm just not sold on Cooper feeling so uncomfortable with a clip on tie, that he takes it off and then grabs everything else he brought with him except the tie.

[NickDG 23]

>>Well, Cooper didn't know how to lower the stairs. Having them down on take-off solves that little problem.
Maybe, but the 727 airstair opening mechanism is pretty well placarded as it needed to be PAX operated in a ground emergency. One thing I never understood is why, according to the Wikipedia page, did the airplane land with the stairs deployed. Why didn't someone go back there and close it?

And just an aside, after Cooper's jump all 727 airstairs were equipped with a "Cooper Vane" a device that prevented the stairs from being lowered in flight.

>> My initial thinking is that he wanted to jump right away into a urban/suburban area, not necessarily the heavy woods.
LOL, I just flashed on DB Cooper hailing a cab . . .

Here's an interesting side bar on 727 airstairs:

Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics.airliners
From: David Lednicer
Subject: A320, MD-80, 727
Date: 01 Dec 93 03:16:29 PST

In reply to the question as to why MD-80s and 727s have their ventral stairs down on the ground: it keeps them from tipping over (tail down) should someone goof when loading them! In the AIAA "Case Study in Aircraft Design: The Boeing 727", Mark Gregoire relates a story about when the first 727-200 was delivered to National Airlines. "As it rolled to a stop near the National hangar, amid the expectant dignitaries, the pilot touched the brakes and the airplane nose went down and then recoiled up and lifted the nose gear off the concrete approximately 6 to 8 inches. The gasps in the crowd were heard 3,000 miles away in Seattle. Bill Clay put a team together and, armed with weight and balance data, toured the airlines outlining the entire spectrum of configuration control, ground handling, ballasting, and precautionary measures from sloping ramps to heavy snow loads on the tail. As far as we know, no 727-200 has ever sat on its tail and maybe we over reacted to the National incident, but that's why, you will nearly always see a 727 with its rear airstairs down when parked. There are some rare cases where we attach lead to the radome
bulkhead for extreme loading conditions."

NickD

[skyjack71 0]

I just spent the last few minutes doing an intense post and it just disappeared. I was telling things that I had tried to tell the FBI before and then POOF! it disappeared like the magic dragon.
I thinkCkret needs to spend some time finding the CIGARETTE BUTTS and going to talk with the witnesses that are still alive.

A step-daughter of Duane's told me when I called and her mother was not home "I know Duane was Cooper" .She also told me something else in that conversation. I informed the FBI of this, but they never did go back to see them. This young lady died a yr or so later and her mother died in 2006 - part of the truth died with them.

This is not all that was in the post - but, POOF like the Magic Dragon - not only disappeared off the screen but from my mind. Maybe I can condition myself to tell it again - later. But you know sometimes LATER never comes.
I do remember that most of it was about what the FBI is not doing - and their turning a deaf ear to my pleas to investigate Duane's back-ground more thoroughly including individuals I have named to them.

The cigarettes - it is evident that the chain of custody on the evidence has been broken and that the tie may not be the original tie. They have not produced the cigarette butts nor the note from Oakdale.

This AGENT has not responded to how much Duane's old photo's look like all of the composites....am I manufacturing photos? But he has time to talk about how Cooper did this or that. All of this is interesting, but I just want the truth before it is too late.

I would go see the man who threatened me, and Florence, and Tina. Armed with all the photo's and composites. I would be curious as to why and man would threaten the wife of a friend who claimed he was Cooper - why it made him very nervous.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Quote

One thing I never understood is why, according to the Wikipedia page, did the airplane land with the stairs deployed. Why didn't someone go back there and close it?

First, I just want to say there's been some ridiculously GREAT posts lately by the DZ community. Thanks, you guys really make it a pleasure to discuss this topic.
Okay, now to respond to what you said NickDG...

The reason (and I'm projecting what I know into their minds) is that Cooper specifically told Tina to go into the cockpit and not to come out. Something happend, I can't remember what at the moment, that caused Captain Scott to phone to the back of the plane using the intercom and ask Cooper if everything was okay and if he needed anything. There was silence for several moments until Cooper reached the intercom and said everything was okay and he did not need help.

My assumption is that he was in the middle of doing something (maybe trying to figure out the slipstream?) and he heard that intercom and decided to respond. They didn't want to risk upsetting Cooper so they did NOT use the intercom after this (maybe they should have once they approached Reno).

Essentially it's like that old joke where the robber tells you to go count to 300 or something before you do anything... meanwhile the robber is long gone.

Short answer: Fear. That's why no one went back there to put the stairs back up.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Skyjack71, I had never heard that a family member of Duane's ever said they knew or even suspected that he was Cooper.

What you just wrote, as plainly as I can say it... shocking.

I've been doing some reading on some of your many posts on this board and others, and I'm compiling a list that hopefully I can post sometime tomorrow. I'd like to put some key points I've read into one post.

[Erroll 49]

Quote

I've been doing some reading on some of your many posts on this board and others, and I'm compiling a list that hopefully I can post sometime tomorrow. I'd like to put some key points I've read into one post.

Without all the bolding, underlining, CAPS and , I hope.

[Ckret 0]

***

Cooper was under the belief that the stairs were lowered from the cockpit. When he learned that his demand for the stairs to be down on take off could not be met he said, "thats alright the captain can do after we take off."

[Ckret 0]

[Ckret 0]

I think another reason to believe Cooper may have been poor is the fact that risked losing his life either by sudden stop syndrome or jail for $200,000.

[Ckret 0]

You got it exactly right, Cooper told Tina that no one was to come out of the cockpit, so the complied with the demand.

Within just a few minutes after takeoff, Cooper tried to lower the airstairs. We know this from an indication light in the cockpit. The problem was that the airstairs operate on gravity to lower. I guess Cooper thought when he started the operation the stairs would lower automatically.

After several more minutes, Cooper called to the cockpit and advised the captain he could not get the stairs to drop. The captain leveled and slowed the plane, after a few minutes he called back to Cooper and asked if everything was ok, Cooper responded and thats the last we ever heard from Dan.

[SwampThing 0]

Quote

I think another reason to believe Cooper may have been poor is the fact that risked losing his life either by sudden stop syndrome or jail for $200,000.

Yearly income average in 1971 was 9028.00, that's 20 years of retirement.
And if Cooper had done any research into bank reserves, he would have had an idea how much money was available quickly.
There was also the size and weight concerns.

The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

[Orange1 0]

Quote

The big question, and the one we "might" be able answer if we put our heads together, is what kind of jumper was DB Cooper?

1. Non-Jumper?
2. Experienced Military Jumper?
3. Experienced Smoke Jumper?
4. Experienced Sport Jumper?

[etc...]

Nick, why do we have to assume an "either/or" here? Is it not possible he was one of 2 or 3 AND had done some sport training as well? ...maybe just enough to figure out he knew how to pull a ripcord? (Also, is it not incorrect to assume that any military jumper would have been restricted to SL?)

I'm still assuming that we had someone who was not afraid to land in trees with a load, which to my mind does support the idea of basic military or smoke training. Supplement that with some sports training - perhaps conveniently forgetting to mention that you have prior military/smoke experience - disappear after 10 or 20 jumps or whatever it took to get to freefall at a decent altitude in those days like i'm sure many did (and still do) - and no-one will necessarily think of you after the fact...? This could also explain why he didn't have his own rig. (Newbie buys rig, newbie disappears with rig after skyjack = not such a good idea?)

Just to go over what we know - suspects that have variously been dismissed - mayfield, mccoy, and christiansen - had jumping experience of various sorts. (Christiansen would be my personal favourite except ckret says he doesn't match the physical description) Who of the other "serious" suspects had (proven) jumping experience?

Is it safe to say that in that time - anyone who was known to have jumping experience and 'disappeared' after the hijacking would have been brought to light, as would anyone with that background who seemed to suddenly have more money than before? This, to me, is still the most puzzling aspect of the whole case.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[NickDG 23]

>>anyone who was known to have jumping experience and 'disappeared' after the hijacking would have been brought to light, as would anyone with that background who seemed to suddenly have more money than before? This, to me, is still the most puzzling aspect of the whole case.
That's why I think he had only a small number of jumps. He was somebody the parachuting community didn't miss.

And on the money thing, I don’t know, in the 70s I knew more than a few jumpers who were broke one week and flush with cash the next. And it had nothing to do with hijacking . . .

NickD

[skyjack71 0]

Orange states: "(Also, is it not incorrect to assume that any military jumper would have been restricted to SL?)"

Jo replies:

Weber enlisted 6/18/1941 in Cleveland, Ohio with a altered birth certicate (the family said he was born in 1925) stating he was born 6/18/24. This kid has just turned 17, but he is really only 16. He goes to basic in Newport, RI and in August is sent to Jacksonville, FL. and would remain there until May of 1942. He receives a Bad Conduct discharge May 30, 1942.

Now, Get this: He is hell bent on going to war and attempts on Oct. 1, 1942 to get into the Army Selective Service and his birthday is stated as 6/18/22. Finally on March 31, 1943 he manages to get himself in the Army and is sent to Fort Hayes.

On April 15, 1943 we have a letter sent from Camp Sibert, Alabama. (NOTE: the FBI told me he was NEVER at Camp Sibert). Yet, we have a letter sent to his mother thanking her for the $1. and telling her about his insurance and bonds being assigned to her, to send his watch -needs it in the field as he has lots of time precision, for washing his clothes, he won't be able to wear them when he gets home, and he sends photo of himself "all dressed up" in uniform, asking her to keep his "location secret because this boy is making good and wants to keep right on". He also talks about the chemical end of it is just as good as anything else. Duane L. Weber 35608905, Co D-2st C or an LWS Trng Regt. Camp Sibert, Al. He signs it
Dusty

Oct. 11, 1943 we have a marriage certificate to a Daisy Schuller in Monroe, Michigan.

We never find out when he left the Army - or who Daisy Schuller is.

Next information we have is that he is arrested in Nov. 25, 1944 in Chicago. This appears on his McNeil Island Penitentaiary papers.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Orange states: "someone who was not afraid to land in trees with a load, which to my mind does support the idea of basic military or smoke training. Supplement that with some sports training - perhaps conveniently forgetting to mention that you have prior military/smoke experience - disappear after 10 or 20 jumps or whatever it took to get to freefall and no-one will necessarily think of you after the fact...?

Jo Replies and Asks -

Does this sound like someone who might meet the above criteria? Would he not have had jumping included in any of the above? The military will not divulge any questions regarding this, but from the experience of you WWII guys out there --- What would you think and what can you tell me about this?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

I realize there are countless people out there with hundreds of theories regarding Cooper; who he was, whether he lived or not, and how he got away with it (or didn't).

Since this thread was started by Skyjack71 to assist her of finding evidence that would help point to Duane or point away from Duane, I will start here. A similar effort could be made for all the top suspects and for yet unknown suspects, but in my opinion, Duane continues to be the strongest suspect for reasons outlined below.

First, Duane actually confessed to the crime and confessed to being Dan Cooper. False confessions have happened and continue to happen everyday around the world, but they are generally coerced or an attempt to bring the confessor into some glory. Countless people made various confessions to the FBI about being Cooper.

What separates Duane from almost all of these false confessors is that Duane waited until the very last moments of his life to make the confession, and he confessed only to his wife. He signed over his living will to his doctors, basically signing his own death certificate stating that he was to remain off of kidney treatments. He was expected to die within 5 days. Once the paper work was completed, the nurses left him alone with his wife. Skyjack71 didn't know who Dan Cooper was, but she can clearly remember the name because he pronounced it in a peculiar way. When she continued to challenge Duane on the confession (telling him that his story was non-sense), Duane cursed loudly. Having heard Duane getting upset and thinking he was having trouble dealing with his pain and the idea of his ultimate death, the nurses rushed in and immediately gave him a shot of morphine.

No other top suspect that I'm aware of, has ever confessed to being Dan Cooper, and if they did, I highly doubt they would do it at such a serious time in their life. Facing your own death is not the time for fun and games! This is a very serious matter that I'd believe most people would find humbling and would want to speak their mind as honestly as possible.

When I spoke to my grandfather for the last time, while he was on his deathbed, part of me knew it would be final time we’d ever speak. This was not a time for practical jokes or flippant behavior; this was a time to tell him that I loved him and to leave him with what could very well be my final words.

Beginning with the confession, there's plenty of evidence to support the confession being real and not some prank that Duane decided to play on his wife just following the serious matter of handing over his living will to his doctors.

1. Skyjack71 witnessed Duane having an intense nightmare (1977) where Duane said "I left fingerprints on the aft stairs, I'm going to die, (loud scream)" I think most of us would remember witnessing our spouse having such a nightmare. She remembers asking him what aft stairs were and he said stairs from jail or something to that effect.

2. In Fall of 1979, Duane took Skyjack71 to the NW for a sentimental journey. This journey is chalk full of circumstantial evidence that supports his confession some 15 years later. First, he "had to do something" one morning while just outside of Portland. He left very early and came back several hours later all dirty. Second, he drove Skyjack71 to an area near LaCamas lake and actually said the words "that's where Cooper came out of the woods" and when Skyjack71 asked him how he would know, he replied "maybe I was the one on the ground". Later on that trip, Duane appeared to be looking for a tower and mentioned that he had buried something behind a shed at a tower nearby. Third, they stopped near the river for an extended period of time and he made Skyjack71 stay in the car. He took something out of the trunk and went into a wooded area down near the water. No one knows why and no one knows for how long. Fourth, they stopped by a hotel adjacent to the I-5 and Columbia river just before leaving. Duane had a paper sack with him that he claimed had trash in it. Within 5 months of this sentimental journey, Brian Ingram found four bundles of money close to the water's edge just downriver from each of these two points.

While traveling up to Seattle, Duane took an unnecessary detour, heading over to the Sea Tac airport. He drove around the airport and to the backside (west) of it. When questioned why they were doing this, Duane said it was a shortcut to Seattle. Skyjack71, pulling out the map, could see clearly that a detour into the SeaTac/Burien area is no shortcut to downtown Seattle.

Throughout the entire trip to the Northwest, Duane never used a map. In fact, he continually pointed out odd points of interest, such as an out of sight dollar corner store that Skyjack71 was able to confirm 21 years later.

3. In Feb 1980 when the money was found, Skyjack71 was reading the newspaper article to Duane. Referring to the money that had been unearthed, Duane simply said, “it’s worthless.”

4. Shortly thereafter, a television special came out on DB Cooper and the money that had recently been found. Skyjack71 remarked to Duane that she was eager to watch the special, but as it turned out, something “came up” that night that prevented her from seeing it. Duane made arrangements for them to go out with another couple which was something they had never done on a week day. During the dinner conversation, Skyjack71 spoke to the other woman and commented on the fact that they never went out this way on weeknights. This is how she recollects the incident so well. It turned out that throughout their 17 year marriage, this would be the first and only time Duane made such dinner arrangements without consulting Skyjack71 first. Further, they never socialized with other couples unless it was through his work or was business related.

5. Shortly after the television special aired, Duane told Skyjack71 that his company was reducing his territory and assigning it to someone else. He promptly moved to Alabama, leaving his family behind for a few months. After Duane died, Skyjack71 discovered an old resume and a letter of resignation written to his boss in early 1980. The explanation he had stated to his boss in this letter of resignation was that he was resigning because Skyjack71 and her daughter wanted to “move back to the South.” This, of course, was patently false because Skyjack71 and her daughter (who was still in school at the time), loved living in the Colorado suburb of Fort Collins. Duane completely resigned from his company, moved to Alabama, and began working for a familiar company he had worked for previously. The new job was for a fledgling company trying to stay in business, and Duane was well aware that the company may not remain in business long.

In short, Duane had told Skyjack71 that his employer in F. Collins was taking away his territory which turned out to be a lie. Duane had actually resigned even though he was making substantial money at the time.

6. In the 1960s, Duane worked for the insurance company that funded the Cooper ransom. The dollar amount on the insurance policy just so happened to be $200,000.

7. Skyjack71 can only recall Duane reading one book during their 17 year marriage. Duane bought a copy of Norjack and he sat in his favorite chair and read it cover to cover. Skyjack71 asked him what it was about and he said it was about a hijacking. Skyjack71 told him it sounded interesting and to let her read it when he was finished. He agreed, but then days later when Skyjack71 asked him about the book, he claimed someone from work borrowed it from him. The book was never seen again.

What’s more is that in the following weeks after reading the book, Duane grew out his hair and took on a full mustache.

8. In 1990, Skyjack71 actually did see a book amongst Duane's possessions. It was during a brief separation due to his emotional stress of becoming dependent on kidney machines. This may have been a similar stress he would have felt in 1971 when he first was told he had kidney disease, a condition he’d seen his mother suffer through until her death.

Skyjack71 happened to notice a book in Duane’s trailer that he lived in during this time. 6 years later, she saw the book once again.... she had checked it out from the library. In some of the margins, she noticed Duane's handwritten notes. The book turned out to be about DB Cooper. Skyjack71 immediately called the FBI the night she read the first few pages of this book and learned for the first time about some of the details of the crime.

9. Discovery channel's Unsolved History did a story on the Cooper case. As part of their story, they took the 1972 composite sketch of Cooper and fed it into the FRS of a Vegas Casino. They added several pictures to the database, including a handful of the top suspects, such as McCoy and Duane, and then ran a search amongst the entire database against the composite sketch. Of everyone in the database and all the top suspects, Duane's photo came up as the top biometric match.

10. When Skyjack71 pursued Duane's ex-wife (whom he was married to at the time of the heist) regarding Cooper, his ex-wife was reticent. She told Skyjack71 to "leave the past behind". At no time did she ever deny the allegation that Duane was Cooper and she remained reticent about the topic. She was deliberate and adamant that they were separated from October 1971 until February 1972 and she did not have any contact with Duane during that time.

11. Years later, this ex-wife was preparing to move into assisted living. With no prompting, she sent Skyjack71 some old original photos (not reprints) of Duane. Amongst the photos was one of the ex-wife and not Duane. It wasn’t as though the widow and the ex-wife had been close, and therefore this picture seemed a little out of place. As she examined this particular photo, it happened to have an unusual object in the foreground... some wrap around sunglasses. Why the ex-wife sent these pictures and also included this photo will always be a mystery as the ex-wife has since died.

12. This ex-wife had a daughter who once told Skyjack71, “I know that Duane was Cooper,” and made some type of elaboration that Skyjack71 has never mentioned. She says the FBI knows what was said because she had called them to interview this daughter who has since passed away.

13. At some point in 1990, Skyjack71 happened to come across a ticket stub of some kind with the SeaTac or Sea-Tac printed on it. It was sitting on his desk in his shop and she saw it there and thought it peculiar.

14. In 1994, Duane had broken his leg. The shop had been closed for years, and there were some boxes with tax information in it. Skyjack71 decided to clean and organize a box from 1990 that had been packed when they closed the shop and she did this despite Duane’s protest. She dumped out the box and began to sort the box from the 1990 tax year. She began throwing some items away and then filing others. One of the items she picked up was an old airline ticket from the year 1971. According to her memory, the ticket was a Portland to Seattle ticket. She remembered this because this was the year she had flown for the first time. Seeing the old ticket, she went to ask Duane about it, and he said that it used to mean something, “but now it doesn’t” and instructed her to throw it away. She then placed it in the garbage bag with all the other non-relevant papers and items she threw away from that box.

Later on that day, he asked her what she did with the old ticket. She replied that she threw it away as per his instructions and that it was in a garbage bag in the garage. She then grabbed another old box out of his closet and he again told her not to sift through his things and that he would do it later. She left the second box alone.

That night, she went out to the garage and sifted through the garbage bag and did not see the ticket.

A few weeks later, Skyjack71 folded up Duane’s clothing and went to put away his socks and undergarments like she always did. This time, Duane told her not to and that he’d put them away himself. Ignoring his comments, she went to his drawer as she frequently did to put away his garments. Upon opening one of the drawers, she saw the old airline ticket lying in the drawer. At this point, she knew Duane well enough not to ask him about the ticket.

15. In the late fall of 1994, the same year as the above incidents, the Webers held a garage sale. Duane had gotten to the point where she had to drive him to and pick him up from dialysis. Amongst the items that would be sold were some false books; the kind that you could hide items in. When Skyjack71 went to pick up Duane from dialysis, there was a young woman who was helping her with the garage sale. The helper asked both of them what to do with one of these false books. Duane instructed her to put it aside and that he’d take care of it. Later that evening, Duane instructed Skyjack71 to retrieve the book for him and she was unable to find it. Many of the items for sale that day were old items from the shop that they had closed. Skyjack71 then called the helper and the helper told Skyjack71 there were old papers and such in the false book and claimed “it should be there.”

A weakened Duane was so upset about the lost book that Skyjack71 felt it was important to search through the garage until late at night to find it. Duane finally told her that he would search for himself later on when he could muster the strength.

Two years later, Skyjack71 contacted this helper, who may have suffered from addiction, and the helper claimed no recollection of the events or the false book. Skyjack71 happened to find this odd because this helper purposely came in and asked what to do with it and they contacted her later to ask her about it.

Incidentally, the old ticket was never seen after 1994. It may or may not have been in the false book.

16. There was a second garage sale after Duane's death. One item was something Duane had kept in his desk. Skyjack71 had no idea what it was, but someone who visited the garage sale purchased it because he collected these sorts of things and told her that it was part of a parachute.

17. On Duane's deathbed, he instructed Skyjack71 to check his van and told her specifically what to check, but Skyjack71’s focus was to comfort him and really wasn’t listening to him. This was during his confession and she thought he was talking non-sense. Skyjack71 just told him she’d take care of it and not to worry. Skyjack71 wound up selling the van. Later, the new owner contacted Skyjack71 and gave her a wallet that only contained some peculiar identification. It was a military ID and some other ID of Duane's under various names. The returned wallet appeared to have held many more items at one time in its life. The purchasers of the van told Skyjack71 about the wallet on the phone there was a license and papers in it and when she arrived they told her they never opened it and could not comment on the contents. Skyjack71 maintains a belief that there may have been more items in the van, but cannot nor will not say for sure. It was subsequently torn apart from top to bottom for “rebuilding purposes.”

We did read earlier on this thread that the new owners began to fly every other weekend to south Florida right after purchasing the van. Whether or not this happened to be related to them purchasing the van, we’ll never know and at best could only speculate. They may have inherited money or won the state lottery or just enjoyed prosperous sales in their flea market endeavors… we do not know.

18. In 1990, around the same time that Skyjack71 saw the ticket stub with SeaTac printed on it, Skyjack71 and Duane were in his van. He left her in the van to go grab something out of the shop. On the console, Skyjack71 happened to notice a grayish money bag. From her recollection, it had printing on one side of it, but she did not pull the bag out of the console all the way because Duane was coming back to the van. This was a very trying time of their marriage (he was staying in the trailer) and she didn’t want to get him upset.

Duane later was arrested for attempting to obtain a fraudulent driver’s license. Among his possessions was a new, or barely used, hand gun.

In his paranoia, Duane blamed Skyjack71 for the arrest thinking she ratted him out. She actually saved him from more serious charges because her and his doctor pleaded with authorities and told them Duane only attempted this because of his illness. The real reason Duane attempted to obtain a fraudulent driver’s license is unknown.

19. In 1971/early 72, a Reno newspaper received a letter or note of some kind from someone claiming to be Cooper. There were several of these received by various news outlets at the time, but this one in Reno had been postmarked in a suburb of one of Duane's family member's.

20. According to his ex-wife, Duane was unaccounted for in the fall of 1971 through February of 1972. In February of 1972, Duane got back together with his wife. Further, his employer at the time was unaware of his whereabouts. In February of 1972, Duane returned to work and claimed he was injured when he fell out of a tree in his yard. He told them he had been trimming the tree. Skyjack71 later got the ex-wife to confess that there was no tree in their yard at the time.

21. Duane and his wife made very little money in 1972. Their tax return, however, shows that they claimed a significant portion of their income from selling things they already owned. From what I've heard, this wasn't filed on any capital gain or investment schedule. Do most people who hold a garage sale claim 25% of their income from items they sold around the house? Why was Duane and his wife so eager to claim income that could never be traced?

22. In June of 1972, according to the ex-wife’s daughter, Duane and the ex-wife had recently purchased a brand new car. The daughter vividly remembered this because she helped them move to Kansas and she had the privilege of driving the new car.

23. Shortly before Duane passed away, in March of 1995, Skyjack71 was helping him get dressed since he was injured with a broken arm and several broken fingers. She was attempting to help him put on long johns when she asked him if he was ever going to disclose how he had hurt his leg. He didn’t have trouble with the leg, but due to scarring and/or deformity, it was apparent to Skyjack71 that he had once injured it fairly severely. She had asked him about it before but he never disclosed the cause of his injury.

Duane’s response was that he had injured his leg jumping out of a plane once. Skyjack71 immediately laughed at his answer because she found it funny. Duane later reiterated this story during his confession.

24. At various points throughout their marriage, but only beginning in the very late 1980s, Duane would tell Skyjack71 that a famous invention was named after him. Time and time again, she'd say Weber grill. She even once made a sarcastic reply saying "Weber Bread". Every time she made one of her guesses, Duane just gave her a childlike grin and would say "you'll never know".

We don't know of any invention named specifically after Duane Weber. We do know, however, that an invention was named after Dan Cooper, and it was called The Cooper Vane.

25. In 1987, Duane and Skyjack71 were on a commercial airliner in Miami. They were either boarding or exiting, and Duane pointed at a door with a wheel on it as they walked by. He mentioned to Skyjack71 that if a person were to turn that wheel that stairs would lower from the belly of the plane.

26. Skyjack71 just made a post about Duane serving time in McNeil prison. This prison is located in Tacoma. According to Ckret, Cooper stated that McCord "is only 20 minutes from Tacoma. It shouldn't take that long."

I have included some photos of Duane along side some composite sketches of Cooper.

[skyjack71 0]

SafeCrack, I appreciate the post - it was lenghty and had a few errors of no significance. I just want to re-interate the things below that were posted right before your post - as I really need the assistance of the forum regarding this early military history.

Quoted from the prior post -

Weber enlisted 6/18/1941 in Cleveland, Ohio with a altered birth certicate (the family said he was born in 1925) stating he was born 6/18/24. This kid has just turned 17, but he is really only 16. He goes to basic in Newport, RI and in August is sent to Jacksonville, FL. and would remain there until May of 1942. He receives a Bad Conduct discharge May 30, 1942.

Now, Get this: He is hell bent on going to war and attempts on Oct. 1, 1942 to get into the Army Selective Service and his birthday is stated as 6/18/22. Finally on March 31, 1943 he manages to get himself in the Army and is sent to Fort Hayes.

On April 15, 1943 we have a letter sent from Camp Sibert, Alabama. (NOTE: the FBI told me he was NEVER at Camp Sibert). Yet, we have a letter sent to his mother thanking her for the $1. and telling her about his insurance and bonds being assigned to her, to send his watch -needs it in the field as he has lots of time precision, for washing his clothes, he won't be able to wear them when he gets home, and he sends photo of himself "all dressed up" in uniform, asking her to keep his "location secret because this boy is making good and wants to keep right on". He also talks about the chemical end of it is just as good as anything else. Duane L. Weber 35608905, Co D-2st C or an LWS Trng Regt. Camp Sibert, Al. He signs it
Dusty

Oct. 11, 1943 we have a marriage certificate to a Daisy Schuller in Monroe, Michigan.

We never find out when he left the Army - or who Daisy Schuller is.

Next information we have is that he is arrested in Nov. 25, 1944 in Chicago. This appears on his McNeil Island Penitentaiary papers.

CAN ANYONE OLD TIMERS TELL ME IF HE WOULD HAVE HAD JUMP TRAINING IN THE COURSE OF THE ABOVE MILITARY?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[redlegphi 0]

I'm not an "old timer", but I don't think that military record indicates that Duane had jump training in the military. Camp Sibert was the Army's Chemical School at that time, so I don't imagine they had an Airborne School as well. I don't think he was at Fort Hayes long enough. And I don't think they had an Airborne School in Jacksonville.
On top of all of that, Paratroopers tend to be pretty proud of what they volunteer to do. If he had volunteered to be a Paratrooper, I would think that he'd have mentioned that, either directly to his mother or in a letter.

[bozo 0]

So let me get this right. Duane enlisted 6-18-41 because he wanted to get to the war. The war wasnt even declared until December of that same year.

Hes kicked out bad conduct later.

Reenlists March -31-43 sent to Fort Hayes.
15 days later...not enough time for Basic ,hes sent to Camp Sibert Ala.

5 months later hes married in Michigan. Oct-11-43.
Then by Nov 44 hes in Jail again.

It seems like Duane was a busy boy but there wasnt time for Airborne school there anywhere.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[cabbage 0]

Quote

So let me get this right. Duane enlisted 6-18-41 because he wanted to get to the war. The war wasnt even declared until December of that same year.

Hes kicked out bad conduct later.

Reenlists March -31-43 sent to Fort Hayes.
15 days later...not enough time for Basic ,hes sent to Camp Sibert Ala.

5 months later hes married in Michigan. Oct-11-43.
Then by Nov 44 hes in Jail again.

It seems like Duane was a busy boy but there wasnt time for Airborne school there anywhere.

War was declaired in 1939. The USA just joined late. By mid 1941 it was obvious the USA would join in, and by that time it was obvious what side. Although earlier in the war it looked like the USA could go either way.

Cabbage

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We're a' just machines for makin' shite.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quote

So let me get this right. Duane enlisted 6-18-41 because he wanted to get to the war. The war wasnt even declared until December of that same year.

Hes kicked out bad conduct later.

Reenlists March -31-43 sent to Fort Hayes.
15 days later...not enough time for Basic ,hes sent to Camp Sibert Ala.

5 months later hes married in Michigan. Oct-11-43.
Then by Nov 44 hes in Jail again.

It seems like Duane was a busy boy but there wasnt time for Airborne school there anywhere.

War was declaired in 1939. The USA just joined late. By mid 1941 it was obvious the USA would join in, and by that time it was obvious what side. Although earlier in the war it looked like the USA could go either way.

Cabbage

regardless of the dates war was declared, bozo seems to make a convincing argument that he would not have had time to do airborne, combined with redlegphi's comments makes it unlikely. anyway from what i understand of paratroopers someone with bad conduct is not going to get a shot at that?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[mark 102]

Rhode Island + Jacksonville, Florida = Navy. No jump school.

A Bad Conduct Discharge (BCD) must be adjudicated by Special Court Martial, and is equivalent to felony conviction. It's only one step removed from Dishonorable Discharge, and is not something you earn just by being disagreeable or surly. You have to do something criminal.

So if one had a BCD, he'd be unwanted by any branch of service. It is still possible these days to create a new identity to reenlist; it would have been much easier -- and necessary, even with a change in branch of service -- in those days.

Fort Hayes = Army induction center. No training. Maybe some aptitude testing before being sent on to training schools. No jump school.

Camp Siebert = Chemical Warfare School. No jump school.

WW2 jump training at that time was unit training -- your whole regiment went. Individual replacement training came much later. Unless you were actually assigned to an airborne unit, you wouldn't get to go to jump school. (Sometimes even if you were assigned to an airborne unit, you didn't get to go. General Maxwell Taylor, commander of the 101st Airborne Division, made his first jump -- a night jump -- in the early morning hours of June 6, 1944.)

Also, although prisoners were trained and used as firefighters, this was pick-and-shovel work. No jump training there, either.

Mark

[skyjack71 0]

Mark you stated:
"Also, although prisoners were trained and used as fire fighters, this was pick-and-shovel work. No jump training there, either. "
------------------------------------------------------------
.
Folsom or San Quentin - it is a matter of history, started a SMOKE JUMP TRAINING OF PRISONERS. Somewhere in my massive files I do have that information (just by looking up the prisons).

McNeil had a forestry group - but I do not know if they included any smoke jumping...and they did put the prisoners on the fire lines as you stated above.

Smoke jumping was done by the Triple Nickels (a black group of jumpers). They were not part of the prison system - but they were some of the 1st black military jumpers. They hailed from Pendleton, OR. in the early 40's.and in 1944 Portland, OR. used them to to fight fires. They were used buy the Armed Forces in the N.W. to seek out the "Balloon Bombs" that the Japanese sent into the WA. and OR. area. One such device at the Hanford Works in WA cause quiet a stir...and the U.S was worried that the Japs might send Chemical Weapons into the States in this manner... this group was part of secret project called "Operation Firefly"


in the middle of all of this Duane is sent to McNeil Prison. See the connection. This group was very active and they were forthcoming in assisting the forestry and young men who were interested in learning more....this group was of assistance to both WA and OR in fighting fires - if Duane was on the fire lines from any of the prisons (the CA prisons sent fire fighters to WA and OR) in times of need during that time as most of our young men were Overseas fighting a war.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

I don't imagine they had an Airborne School -
And I don't think they had an Airborne School in Jacksonville.
Paratroopers tend to be pretty proud of what they volunteer to do. If he had volunteered to be a Paratrooper, I would think that he'd have mentioned that, either directly to his mother or in a letter.

Forgive me I took the liberty to shorten that:
In the 40's we were preparing for WAR. I was told by a local WW11 vet that they did basic jump training in Jacksonville and R.I. just to be sure the yokel had the guts to do it and to see if they were airborne material. I need for the 'Old Timers' to tell me if that is true. I wanted to hear it from more than one source and why I asked the Old Timers to respond.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber