Lockheed Lodestars as jumpships

[Zing 2]

Randy DeLuca took this photo at The Gulch in Arizona sometime in (I think) 1974.
A few folks managed to get out, including the guy just above the tail, and the rest of the load rode it down to about 7000 feet before the pilot got it back under control.
They don't call them Lodestalls for no reason.

Zing Lurks

[howardwhite 4]

Hmm, full flaps?

In my pix, it doesn't appear that flaps are used at all.

Remember this Rande pic in a Gulch ad?

HW

[bozo 0]

Quote

Hmm, full flaps?

In my pix, it doesn't appear that flaps are used at all.

Remember this Rande pic in a Gulch ad?

HW

Three out of four Canadians prefer The Gulch.

great t-shirt.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[Zing 2]

The three out four Canadians was a Ghoulidge t-shirt ... after the Gulch closed down. I don't know if any of the bounces at the Gulch were Canadians.
Seems like there were 7 at the Casa Grande Airport and 3 on demos in Phoenix during the two and a half years the Gulch was open.
Ghoulidge had 4 bounces already when I became manager, and 3 more after I left. I had a few injuries happen while I ran Ghoulidge, but nobody (amazingly) died. The only trouble on a demo was the time I bounced up at Fountain Hills.
I don't remember any fatalities while Larry Hill was there from 1986 to 1992.
I know of 2 other bounces at the Coolidge Airport since Larry Hill moved his operation over to Elroy.
CPS has a training jump operation at Ghoulidge now that isn't open to fun jumpers, and I heard a rumor that there is a tandem operation going now at Casa Grande.

Howard, yeah, those flaps at near full down were begging for trouble. After this one, which I believe was the second of two pretty scary rides, they changed to dropping the gear to move the CG forward and used just the first notch of flaps. I think they also stopped trying to slow that airplane down on jump run.
There are rumors the pilots flying the Gulch Lodestall were self-taught Lodestar pilots and didn't have the type-rating for the aircraft.
There is an infamous tale of the feds looking for the pilot of that Lodestar after an aborted takeoff at Elsinore when it blew an engine right at rotation.

Zing Lurks

[poppenhager 1]

On my Learstar II (modified Loadstar) I used full flaps and gear down for jump run at 90mph w/29 jumpers.Jumpers stayed forward until told by me to move toward the door.I only had a booboo once when I forgot to lower the gear on jump run!!N789F round trip to 13,500 and back was 15min!!!A great flyer.........Pop D47

Quote

The three out four Canadians was a Ghoulidge t-shirt ... after the Gulch closed down. I don't know if any of the bounces at the Gulch were Canadians.
Seems like there were 7 at the Casa Grande Airport and 3 on demos in Phoenix during the two and a half years the Gulch was open.
Ghoulidge had 4 bounces already when I became manager, and 3 more after I left. I had a few injuries happen while I ran Ghoulidge, but nobody (amazingly) died. The only trouble on a demo was the time I bounced up at Fountain Hills.
I don't remember any fatalities while Larry Hill was there from 1986 to 1992.
I know of 2 other bounces at the Coolidge Airport since Larry Hill moved his operation over to Elroy.
CPS has a training jump operation at Ghoulidge now that isn't open to fun jumpers, and I heard a rumor that there is a tandem operation going now at Casa Grande.

Howard, yeah, those flaps at near full down were begging for trouble. After this one, which I believe was the second of two pretty scary rides, they changed to dropping the gear to move the CG forward and used just the first notch of flaps. I think they also stopped trying to slow that airplane down on jump run.
There are rumors the pilots flying the Gulch Lodestall were self-taught Lodestar pilots and didn't have the type-rating for the aircraft.
There is an infamous tale of the feds looking for the pilot of that Lodestar after an aborted takeoff at Elsinore when it blew an engine right at rotation.

***

[Zing 2]

You'd know better than I do about Lodestars. I've only flown on one as a co-pilot, and that aircraft was not being used for skydiving.
I have jumped out of a couple Lodestars in bygone years. I seem to recall one at Z-hills during a turkey boogie that got real close to stalling when a bunch of jumpers packed the tail way to early and the plane started wallowing in a nose high attitude, causing the pilots to start yelling at the jumpers in the door to go and for the rest of us to stay as far forward as we could.
Like any other airplane, a Lodestar has to be resapected for the physical limitations of the aircraft's capabilities.

Zing Lurks

[allenfperos 0]

Lodestars, very, very LOCKHEED!! It demanded just alittle respect. I believe there was one for sale at Deland in the 80's.

It's actually a beautiful plane.

"Man Small, Why Fall, Skies Call, That's All"

[tbdavis1 0]

I know this is way after your post but I was on the Loadstar (learstar) that went in 8/21/1983 and when I let go and spun around to look at the plane it was nose up far more than that. Luckily for me I was a more experienced at CRW (Eclipse and Considerable Difficulty 1980-1886 3 time national champs) than free fall so I was front floater in the base. After the first 10 or so exited things went crazy and the plane flipped and began a flat spin at that moment time seemed to slow way down and it appeared that I was watching a movie in slow motion as it seemed to just waffle and fall past me with little horizontal separation from me and I could see people exiting from around the the aft end of the plane. Then everything went back to real time (it was 23 sec. stall at 12.5 impact) and I cleared my self and dumped. During opening I could see the fireball at impact and under canopy I heard it. I quickly counted open parachutes and I knew we were missing 9. This may sound selfish but I instantly looked for my CRW teammate's canopies to see if they got out, they had. Then I noticed one that had exploded on opening. Not a team member but a childhood Friend who I made my first jump with a lived with while we learned to skydive. He had struck part of the empennage on exit and that is what deployed his canopy some estimates were 250-300 mph at opening he did not survive. I lost 9 family that day I think about them often. That was the first day and last day I ever set foot in a loadstar and when the news flashed last weekend about the caravan that Jeff and Jessie owned my heart just stopped, we are a small community and most people don't understand the bond we have whether we know each other personally or not I made very few jumps in my career at Snohomish but my thoughts go out to each and everyone of those skydivers and and their families. I hope I haven't bored you with my rambling but this last week has made me appreciate the fact that I am still here and maybe shouldn't be.

Tbdavis1

[debonair 0]

Tim - good to see your post. We've missed you at the Paraphenalia BBQs. When the news broke, quite a few of us connected via email and phone calls and were taken back to the terrible memory of the Lodestar crash. Watching the story unfold about the caravan crash was almost like living it all over again. What horror, disbelief, loss. I didn't know anyone on board this time, but the pain was sharp nevertheless. My prayers go out to their families and friends.

Tim, you lived because you were supposed to. There's no doubt about that.

{{HUGS}}
Deb Henry

[tbdavis1 0]

Deb, sorry I didn't connect with you directly, I saw some of your posts when I first found this site after the news about the caravan was released but I really wasn't sure how to navagate through it (I am computer challenged). I haven't made a jump since our Eclipse reuinion dives back in 1996 during the diamond quest thing but when I heard that a kapowsin plane was missing I had the worst flashback and I think fear that I would know most of the people (Farringtons and friends) and the to hear they are from Snohomish and all so young kind of like all of us in the day at Issaquah I just surfed until I found what I thought would be a site that would understand how we feel.
Wow on a different note this is the 20th year since Jamey lost the battle and Issaquah closed I can't believe there is not a recognition or something. Also I am still married to Pat its our 25th this year!!! hope to hear from ya soon.

Tbdavis1

[RogerRamjet 0]

Quote

I am pretty sure there was one at the Richmond Boogie... circa 1976...

Ok, I was just re-reading this thread and came across your post. I was with the Z-Hills Loadstar at the Richmond Boogie in 1975. I don't think it went back up in 76, but I don't know that it didn't either.

Now, I think you and I HAVE met (contrary to our previous PM's).

-----------------------
Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

[Bsquared 0]

Greene County SPC Xenia had a Lodestar in the early 80's but it did not fly too much. It ended up inverted a few times with a load of jumpers on board.... but I think that it was intentional. Attached photo is me getting ready to pin the base. (photographer John Conklin, deceased). The pilots were Jim West and Dennis "Dudley" Downing.

[howardwhite 4]

Here's Jerry Irwin's fisheye photo of N7070 at ZHills, with anther Lodestar in the background -- probably the Stormville one, 43WT

HW

[piper17 1]

Howard,

Wasn't 7070 the Loadstar that Nate Pond flew at Turners Falls, MA one year ....1977, I think?

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[piper17 1]

Sounds like the one I was on at the Hills with Nate Pond flying and yelling at us to get out as the A/C was stalling. I was "semi-weightless" as I tried to get to the door....but those Lodestars could really climb.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[howardwhite 4]

Yup. I already posted that story here.

HW

[skybill 18]

Quote

The three out four Canadians was a Ghoulidge t-shirt ... after the Gulch closed down. I don't know if any of the bounces at the Gulch were Canadians.
Seems like there were 7 at the Casa Grande Airport and 3 on demos in Phoenix during the two and a half years the Gulch was open.
Ghoulidge had 4 bounces already when I became manager, and 3 more after I left. I had a few injuries happen while I ran Ghoulidge, but nobody (amazingly) died. The only trouble on a demo was the time I bounced up at Fountain Hills.
I don't remember any fatalities while Larry Hill was there from 1986 to 1992.
I know of 2 other bounces at the Coolidge Airport since Larry Hill moved his operation over to Elroy.
CPS has a training jump operation at Ghoulidge now that isn't open to fun jumpers, and I heard a rumor that there is a tandem operation going now at Casa Grande.

Howard, yeah, those flaps at near full down were begging for trouble. After this one, which I believe was the second of two pretty scary rides, they changed to dropping the gear to move the CG forward and used just the first notch of flaps. I think they also stopped trying to slow that airplane down on jump run.
There are rumors the pilots flying the Gulch Lodestall were self-taught Lodestar pilots and didn't have the type-rating for the aircraft.
There is an infamous tale of the feds looking for the pilot of that Lodestar after an aborted takeoff at Elsinore when it blew an engine right at rotation.

Hey Zinger!!,
The Elsinore Loadstall was at the 'Stumbles of '75!! I was standin' at the old packin' tables when it went by the gas pumps (headin' from the lake to the hanger) with the brakes smokin!!! 'Have to dig into the archives but I have some photos of the jumpers bailing out of the plane and doin' a "Ground Star!!!" 'Engine blew at Vmc and thank the Eternal that it wasn't 3 seconds later!!!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[JDutton 0]

That was the only "Stumbles" that I ever made it to. My "team" had jumped from the Lodestar earlier. That aborted takeoff was quite a sight. I think it barely stopped short of a fence.

I would LOVE to see some photos of that.

By the way - we had a small panic on that load. Someone on our team was near the door - I think we were on jump run - and somehow his reserve opened. I remember seeing several guys crowd around him and gingerly walk him up to the middle of the plane where they stuffed it all back in. We got back on jump run and away we went!

We only got 7 in the star. The pin man fell below, so everyone went for him instead of the base. So, everyone except the base was in - and IIRC he had always flown base so he didn't have much flying experience (not that I was any skygod myself). Well, he made a valiant effort to get into the star, but landed on someone's back and it funneled.

Boy, that was fun!

Jeff

[fastphil 0]

Quote

There was a Loadstar at Rosharon, close to Houston, in the late 70s. A friend of mine was seated on it about midship when it stalled on jump run. He said he went weightless and floated back and out the door.

Here’s the Lodestar we jumped at Cow Palace (pic), which was near the current Spaceland. At that time the population base was primarily cows, hence the name Cow Palace. Jumping was invitation style, and we usually just brought enough to fill the plane for a few loads…

[stormville73 0]

Bobby Sweet was Willie's nephew. His father (Willie's brother) was Sandy Sweet. Bobby died in the ninety's in a jumping accident. The Lodestar N43WT was taken from Z-hills by the Confederate Air force, put on display for a few years as a WW2 transport ship then sold as scrap.

To see what it looked like as scrap go to: http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/152677.html .

Makes me want to cry.

Marty T (Stormville 1973 - 1984)

[stormville73 0]

This is what Stormville's Lodestar looked like in 1974.

Marty T

[poppenhager 1]

Made my 5000th jump from that ship 12/31/72 Bill Sweet was flying.

POP

[stormville73 0]

You beat Willy's D license by 401. He was D-448.
Here is a photo of Willy & Sandy Sweet 1982.

[dks13827 2]

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19830821-0

[377 20]

Wasn't the one that spun in in WA a Learstar? Is a Learstar (go fast Lodestar mod) just viewed as a Lockheed 18-56 Lodestar by the FAA and NTSB?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.