pchapman 261 #1 November 28, 2005 I just read in a European paragliding magazine (Fly & Glide) about a replica of a Barish Sailwing being flown. The Sailwing gets mentioned in histories of the development of parachute technology as the first wing style gliding canopy flown, although it was actually flown as a paraglider and not as a parachute deployed from an aircraft. It was a mostly a single surface design, unlike a two surface ram air wing. The year was 1965 or 1967 according to different sources I've seen. The replica was built in France by Francis Heilmann, who has a long tradition of sewing spectacular flying costumes for the annual paragliding festival at St. Hilaire, France. (He has aslo built some skydiving wing suits.) For the Sailwing, no plans or detailed construction information were available, even though Heilmann was in contact with David Barish. So it is a replica based on photos. It does use modern paragliding fabric. Barish went to the St. Hilaire Coupe Icare festival in September 2005 to see the canopy fly. At least the way the replica was built, it flew acceptably although reportedly somewhat unstable in turbulence. It managed a 3:1 glide ratio. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #2 November 28, 2005 Heilman also develops hybrids between paragliders and parachutes with Nervures, a french paraglider manufacturer...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #3 November 28, 2005 That phot depicts a 5-lobe ... er ... 5-cell Barish Sail Wing. Poynter's manual only shows 3-lobe Barish Sail Wing parachutes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #4 November 28, 2005 Quote Poynter's manual only shows 3-lobe Barish Sail Wing Good point - I didn't realize there were different versions. Just doing quick Google or Google Images searches brings up a few photos, that show a 3-lobe version of the original Barish wing being jumped as a parachute and a 5-lobe version paraglided. (Eg, at http://www.llab.se/kgp/dvdoc/barish/barish.html) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 25 #5 November 28, 2005 Scotty Carbone used to jump a Sailwing back in the mid - late seventies. But the pictures I've seen of his Sailwing showed an additional lower surface with ribs, making it a sort of hybridized ram air Barish, if I remember correctly. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #6 November 29, 2005 Quote Scotty Carbone used to jump a Sailwing back in the mid - late seventies. But the pictures I've seen of his Sailwing showed an additional lower surface with ribs, making it a sort of hybridized ram air Barish, if I remember correctly. There was a hybrid 2 surface and 1 surface wing called a Volplane that might be what you are remembering. It had two surfaces on the front half of the canopy, and a single surface on the back half. Here is an image of one, although not a good image. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 25 #7 November 29, 2005 QuoteQuote Scotty Carbone used to jump a Sailwing back in the mid - late seventies. But the pictures I've seen of his Sailwing showed an additional lower surface with ribs, making it a sort of hybridized ram air Barish, if I remember correctly. There was a hybrid 2 surface and 1 surface wing called a Volplane that might be what you are remembering. It had two surfaces on the front half of the canopy, and a single surface on the back half. Here is an image of one, although not a good image. Nope, I remember the Volplane, that was an early ram air from Pioneer. This Carbone Barish Sailwing was reported a number of times, with a picture or two, in Star Crest Magazine and maybe in Skydiving. Can't remember if Parachutist ever ran a shot. But it was mentioned fairly often in the mid - late seventies and it definitely looked like the Barish in the pic at the top of the threads, except it had cells added into it. Maybe Scotty Carbone can fill us in ? Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #8 November 29, 2005 You might be referring to a Hornet, which was an early ram-air canopy with only half a bottom skin. IIRC, the Hornet had a hydraulic reefing system that was far more trouble than it was worth (i.e. one setting for hop-and-pops, but a different setting for terminal openings). On a similar note, Atair has experimented recently with a partial-bottom-skin, ram-air canopy with V-shaped load-bearing-ribs. Apparently it flies much "bigger" than its top skin area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 25 #9 November 29, 2005 QuoteYou might be referring to a Hornet, which was an early ram-air canopy with only half a bottom skin. IIRC, the Hornet had a hydraulic reefing system that was far more trouble than it was worth (i.e. one setting for hop-and-pops, but a different setting for terminal openings). I remember the Hornet (the Pioneer Hornet, not the more recent So. African 9 cell). It was advertised in Parachutist back in '75, though I never actually saw one. Was a 185 ft. 7 cell. Never saw a Volplane either, just pictures, but I always heard it was the Volplane that had the hydraulic reefing system - the Hornet came out in 1975 and I recall the pictures showed a slider. I Guess we need to hear from Scotty, because I'm positive I used to read these little reports about "Scotty Carbone was out jumping his Barish Sailwing at Z-Hills, during the Turkey Meet", etc, etc. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carbonezone 0 #10 November 29, 2005 QuoteI Guess we need to hear from Scotty, because I'm positive I used to read these little reports about "Scotty Carbone was out jumping his Barish Sailwing at Z-Hills, during the Turkey Meet", etc, etc. Hello Tom, Tami here typing for Scotty Scotty Says: " I guess I can put all this to rest. The canopy that I jumped, was called the Barish Aerobat. It was tri-lobed. It had 5 cell in each lobe and then had a single surface attached to the back of a double surface. In other words, it was 1/2 ram air and 1/2 flat on the control surface. It was also angled so the middle lobe was angled down. The outside lobes were angled up. So it actually became drive over lift. Its the only parachute I have ever jumped that actually gained altitude after a turn . I probably have about 200 jumps on the Barish AEROBAT. Unfortunatly 1/2 of them were cut-aways because of the reefing system problems. Dave stopped making the Barish for sport parachuting after he got military contracts. If anyone out there has Dave's number or email please PM us so I can get in touch with him. John Labance of PD has a picture I sent him of a Barish Bi-Plane that I did in 1977 with Steve Haley (CCR#1). BSBD Scotty Carbone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #11 November 30, 2005 dave barish was working at atair last week, doing some design work for us on a rotating parachute. he lives in ny and i will be glad to pm you with his contact info. its pretty amazing what this man did, long before anyone else. what got my attention recently was a photograph of a beautiful barish ram air parachute with a fully formed nose, near identical to a modern day xfire, and it was dated 1970 ! .Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #12 December 8, 2005 I jumped a "Barish Beta" (I think that is what he called it) in the 70's. It was a mostly closed leading edge 5 cell, made of zero P. It had no reefing system, and only one steering line per side. It had "zero" toggle pressure, but also "zero" flare. It also seemed to go "up" when you cranked a "hard" turn. Barish was way ahead of his time. Good to hear he is still around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites