GobbleGobble 0 #26 April 10, 2013 QuoteEven including the fact that on the bottom side of the reserve flap there is a bungee that could 'potentially' interfere w the reserve pc? I'm not terribly familar with other containers. I own a Jav. I have a skytie. The elastic hasn't deformed the reserve flap. Additionally it goes around the outer flap. There is another under the reserve pin. I'm not saying the potential doesn't exist. But I don't see the mechanism by which it would become a problem. After the pin is pulled or the loop is cut the interior top flap above the pilot chute will push up, flat against the flap that the skytie is secured to. The rpc (or anything else for that matter) has nothing it can snag on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
demon4o7 0 #27 April 11, 2013 Ahhhh very true. Thank you for pointing that out! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #28 April 11, 2013 Quote I tested it in the only direction it will ever be deployed - away. Stick a slider in the dang thing, attach it, and pull it. It will come apart with a few pounds of force. In which orientation? Head down, head up, belly to earth, or your back or all of the above?"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #29 April 11, 2013 QuoteQuote....I don't see the mechanism by which it would become a problem. No one ever does.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckakers 370 #30 April 11, 2013 QuoteQuote I tested it in the only direction it will ever be deployed - away. Stick a slider in the dang thing, attach it, and pull it. It will come apart with a few pounds of force. In which orientation? Head down, head up, belly to earth, or your back or all of the above? Why do you ask? Do you really think the forces would be dramatically different pulling the slider out and up vs down and out vs whatever? It let's go easily in every direction. Try it for yourself. BTW, I'm probably not as clueless as you think, I think.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GobbleGobble 0 #31 April 11, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuote....I don't see the mechanism by which it would become a problem. No one ever does. Is this just a general comment about things in hindsight or do you have specific feedback? I don't disagree with what you are saying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #32 April 11, 2013 QuoteQuote I tested it in the only direction it will ever be deployed - away. Stick a slider in the dang thing, attach it, and pull it. It will come apart with a few pounds of force. In which orientation? Head down, head up, belly to earth, or your back or all of the above? I've had my share of malfunctions but I can't say I've ever stowed my slider and then ended up head down. For the record, I use a couple wraps of binding tape sewn to the front risers a few inches above the confluence wrap. That's all it really takes to catch and hold slider grommets, and it doesn't add any protrusions to catch anything else. Also for the record, I don't like the magnetic holders. When I'm flying camera for a four-way team and the outside center or tail has one, it's always flapping around, banging into the plane the entire time they're in the door, and no matter how many times I see it, for an instant I swear I'm about to get hit in the face with a reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckakers 370 #33 April 11, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote....I don't see the mechanism by which it would become a problem. No one ever does. Is this just a general comment about things in hindsight or do you have specific feedback? I don't disagree with what you are saying. Just an observation from the countless times stuff has bit folks in the ass.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Divalent 89 #34 April 11, 2013 I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #35 April 11, 2013 Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckakers 370 #36 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hellis 0 #37 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. Actually, most RSLs are velcroed to the rig. So if one would be concerned with velcro not releasing they should disconnect the RSL IMO. I use the magnetic version, and I know for sure it let's go. Not because I have cut away, but since it sometimes "drops" my slider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #38 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. Yup....'odds are' everything will work just fine. But like I said, I still (personally) don't like putting something on the HC behind me...not on my last chance. . ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wolfriverjoe 1,340 #39 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. Yup....'odds are' everything will work just fine. But like I said, I still (personally) don't like putting something on the HC behind me...not on my last chance. . But he's not attaching it to the H/C. He said specifically that he attached the little Velcro strap to the collar of the jumpsuit. I agree that the "ball and bungee" attached to the reserve flaps seem like an invitation for trouble. And I try very hard to look at something and envision a "failure mode." Interestingly, but not too surprisingly, I'm far better at spotting potential issues in someone else's stuff than my own ideas. And I really can't see any real issues with Chuck's idea. Small patch of Velcro, not a lot of force to release it. It's right by the 3 rings, so it's not likely to pull anything in an odd direction when the main gets chopped. And although it's theoretically possible for the main to be in some direction other than straight "up" (Up meaning over your head, even though the earth may not be directly under your feet), the chances of it are really low. If the main is out, it will be over your head."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #40 April 12, 2013 But he's not attaching it to the H/C. He said specifically that he attached the little Velcro strap to the collar of the jumpsuit. Quote Duh...guess the wife is right...time for NEW glasses! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wolfriverjoe 1,340 #41 April 12, 2013 Quote But he's not attaching it to the H/C. He said specifically that he attached the little Velcro strap to the collar of the jumpsuit. Quote Duh...guess the wife is right...time for NEW glasses! Meh. I had to read it twice to realize that he wasn't attaching it to the H/C. Chuck is the first one I've seen that doesn't tie something to the H/C. And this is apparently "old school." Sometimes those "old farts" know a thing or two. Every other idea for a "Slider Tie" attaches somewhere on the upper part of the H/C. Usually to a reserve flap in some way. Some are more "secure" (bad idea IMO) some are less (not a good idea, just less bad)."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites angryelf 0 #42 May 4, 2013 I have personally had an issue with a ball and bungee (AAD fire which led to a canopy transfer at -700ft). As a result of having to manually pull the device off of my reserve flap, I don't jump these things anymore. What's really scary is that I had one sewn to my jumpsuit collar for a while (Old School-but not with velcro) and that would have been a bit sportier with the same malfunction... As a jumper who wants to open every canopy I jump up (by loosening the chest strap and spreading the risers, which the slider impedes, not to mention loss of situational awareness with a slider obstructing vision) Here's my fix: Removable slider (Not full RDS) with slider blocks on the risers. I have one on my Velo, and on my Pilot (WS rig). If I don't have time to get the slider off, I pull it down over the blocks and get to the ground safely. It works, admittedly adds some complication and opens me up for the possibility of a miss-rigged slider. It's my system, not for everybody-but I like it. -Harry"Sometimes you eat the bar, and well-sometimes the bar eats you..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rwieder 0 #43 May 5, 2013 QuoteGood Lord, you guys. It's freakin'' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Heck, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. When I was Jumping SDSL & SDH, My rigger made me one, I thought it was really cool, and it is, I still use it. I caught more grief over that slider keeper than I did for swooping the area where the RW jumpers were holding a business convention in the LZ. I've got several Jumpsuits with the doggone things already sewed on them. (Tony's) WTHeck? Drama, Drama, Drama......-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #44 May 6, 2013 I still think split sliders are the way to go. I had one years ago and loved it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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chuckakers 370 #30 April 11, 2013 QuoteQuote I tested it in the only direction it will ever be deployed - away. Stick a slider in the dang thing, attach it, and pull it. It will come apart with a few pounds of force. In which orientation? Head down, head up, belly to earth, or your back or all of the above? Why do you ask? Do you really think the forces would be dramatically different pulling the slider out and up vs down and out vs whatever? It let's go easily in every direction. Try it for yourself. BTW, I'm probably not as clueless as you think, I think.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GobbleGobble 0 #31 April 11, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuote....I don't see the mechanism by which it would become a problem. No one ever does. Is this just a general comment about things in hindsight or do you have specific feedback? I don't disagree with what you are saying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites champu 1 #32 April 11, 2013 QuoteQuote I tested it in the only direction it will ever be deployed - away. Stick a slider in the dang thing, attach it, and pull it. It will come apart with a few pounds of force. In which orientation? Head down, head up, belly to earth, or your back or all of the above? I've had my share of malfunctions but I can't say I've ever stowed my slider and then ended up head down. For the record, I use a couple wraps of binding tape sewn to the front risers a few inches above the confluence wrap. That's all it really takes to catch and hold slider grommets, and it doesn't add any protrusions to catch anything else. Also for the record, I don't like the magnetic holders. When I'm flying camera for a four-way team and the outside center or tail has one, it's always flapping around, banging into the plane the entire time they're in the door, and no matter how many times I see it, for an instant I swear I'm about to get hit in the face with a reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckakers 370 #33 April 11, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote....I don't see the mechanism by which it would become a problem. No one ever does. Is this just a general comment about things in hindsight or do you have specific feedback? I don't disagree with what you are saying. Just an observation from the countless times stuff has bit folks in the ass.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Divalent 89 #34 April 11, 2013 I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #35 April 11, 2013 Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckakers 370 #36 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hellis 0 #37 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. Actually, most RSLs are velcroed to the rig. So if one would be concerned with velcro not releasing they should disconnect the RSL IMO. I use the magnetic version, and I know for sure it let's go. Not because I have cut away, but since it sometimes "drops" my slider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #38 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. Yup....'odds are' everything will work just fine. But like I said, I still (personally) don't like putting something on the HC behind me...not on my last chance. . ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wolfriverjoe 1,340 #39 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. Yup....'odds are' everything will work just fine. But like I said, I still (personally) don't like putting something on the HC behind me...not on my last chance. . But he's not attaching it to the H/C. He said specifically that he attached the little Velcro strap to the collar of the jumpsuit. I agree that the "ball and bungee" attached to the reserve flaps seem like an invitation for trouble. And I try very hard to look at something and envision a "failure mode." Interestingly, but not too surprisingly, I'm far better at spotting potential issues in someone else's stuff than my own ideas. And I really can't see any real issues with Chuck's idea. Small patch of Velcro, not a lot of force to release it. It's right by the 3 rings, so it's not likely to pull anything in an odd direction when the main gets chopped. And although it's theoretically possible for the main to be in some direction other than straight "up" (Up meaning over your head, even though the earth may not be directly under your feet), the chances of it are really low. If the main is out, it will be over your head."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #40 April 12, 2013 But he's not attaching it to the H/C. He said specifically that he attached the little Velcro strap to the collar of the jumpsuit. Quote Duh...guess the wife is right...time for NEW glasses! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wolfriverjoe 1,340 #41 April 12, 2013 Quote But he's not attaching it to the H/C. He said specifically that he attached the little Velcro strap to the collar of the jumpsuit. Quote Duh...guess the wife is right...time for NEW glasses! Meh. I had to read it twice to realize that he wasn't attaching it to the H/C. Chuck is the first one I've seen that doesn't tie something to the H/C. And this is apparently "old school." Sometimes those "old farts" know a thing or two. Every other idea for a "Slider Tie" attaches somewhere on the upper part of the H/C. Usually to a reserve flap in some way. Some are more "secure" (bad idea IMO) some are less (not a good idea, just less bad)."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites angryelf 0 #42 May 4, 2013 I have personally had an issue with a ball and bungee (AAD fire which led to a canopy transfer at -700ft). As a result of having to manually pull the device off of my reserve flap, I don't jump these things anymore. What's really scary is that I had one sewn to my jumpsuit collar for a while (Old School-but not with velcro) and that would have been a bit sportier with the same malfunction... As a jumper who wants to open every canopy I jump up (by loosening the chest strap and spreading the risers, which the slider impedes, not to mention loss of situational awareness with a slider obstructing vision) Here's my fix: Removable slider (Not full RDS) with slider blocks on the risers. I have one on my Velo, and on my Pilot (WS rig). If I don't have time to get the slider off, I pull it down over the blocks and get to the ground safely. It works, admittedly adds some complication and opens me up for the possibility of a miss-rigged slider. It's my system, not for everybody-but I like it. -Harry"Sometimes you eat the bar, and well-sometimes the bar eats you..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rwieder 0 #43 May 5, 2013 QuoteGood Lord, you guys. It's freakin'' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Heck, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. When I was Jumping SDSL & SDH, My rigger made me one, I thought it was really cool, and it is, I still use it. I caught more grief over that slider keeper than I did for swooping the area where the RW jumpers were holding a business convention in the LZ. I've got several Jumpsuits with the doggone things already sewed on them. (Tony's) WTHeck? Drama, Drama, Drama......-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #44 May 6, 2013 I still think split sliders are the way to go. I had one years ago and loved it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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champu 1 #32 April 11, 2013 QuoteQuote I tested it in the only direction it will ever be deployed - away. Stick a slider in the dang thing, attach it, and pull it. It will come apart with a few pounds of force. In which orientation? Head down, head up, belly to earth, or your back or all of the above? I've had my share of malfunctions but I can't say I've ever stowed my slider and then ended up head down. For the record, I use a couple wraps of binding tape sewn to the front risers a few inches above the confluence wrap. That's all it really takes to catch and hold slider grommets, and it doesn't add any protrusions to catch anything else. Also for the record, I don't like the magnetic holders. When I'm flying camera for a four-way team and the outside center or tail has one, it's always flapping around, banging into the plane the entire time they're in the door, and no matter how many times I see it, for an instant I swear I'm about to get hit in the face with a reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #33 April 11, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote....I don't see the mechanism by which it would become a problem. No one ever does. Is this just a general comment about things in hindsight or do you have specific feedback? I don't disagree with what you are saying. Just an observation from the countless times stuff has bit folks in the ass.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Divalent 89 #34 April 11, 2013 I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #35 April 11, 2013 Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckakers 370 #36 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hellis 0 #37 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. Actually, most RSLs are velcroed to the rig. So if one would be concerned with velcro not releasing they should disconnect the RSL IMO. I use the magnetic version, and I know for sure it let's go. Not because I have cut away, but since it sometimes "drops" my slider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #38 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. Yup....'odds are' everything will work just fine. But like I said, I still (personally) don't like putting something on the HC behind me...not on my last chance. . ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wolfriverjoe 1,340 #39 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. Yup....'odds are' everything will work just fine. But like I said, I still (personally) don't like putting something on the HC behind me...not on my last chance. . But he's not attaching it to the H/C. He said specifically that he attached the little Velcro strap to the collar of the jumpsuit. I agree that the "ball and bungee" attached to the reserve flaps seem like an invitation for trouble. And I try very hard to look at something and envision a "failure mode." Interestingly, but not too surprisingly, I'm far better at spotting potential issues in someone else's stuff than my own ideas. And I really can't see any real issues with Chuck's idea. Small patch of Velcro, not a lot of force to release it. It's right by the 3 rings, so it's not likely to pull anything in an odd direction when the main gets chopped. And although it's theoretically possible for the main to be in some direction other than straight "up" (Up meaning over your head, even though the earth may not be directly under your feet), the chances of it are really low. If the main is out, it will be over your head."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #40 April 12, 2013 But he's not attaching it to the H/C. He said specifically that he attached the little Velcro strap to the collar of the jumpsuit. Quote Duh...guess the wife is right...time for NEW glasses! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wolfriverjoe 1,340 #41 April 12, 2013 Quote But he's not attaching it to the H/C. He said specifically that he attached the little Velcro strap to the collar of the jumpsuit. Quote Duh...guess the wife is right...time for NEW glasses! Meh. I had to read it twice to realize that he wasn't attaching it to the H/C. Chuck is the first one I've seen that doesn't tie something to the H/C. And this is apparently "old school." Sometimes those "old farts" know a thing or two. Every other idea for a "Slider Tie" attaches somewhere on the upper part of the H/C. Usually to a reserve flap in some way. Some are more "secure" (bad idea IMO) some are less (not a good idea, just less bad)."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites angryelf 0 #42 May 4, 2013 I have personally had an issue with a ball and bungee (AAD fire which led to a canopy transfer at -700ft). As a result of having to manually pull the device off of my reserve flap, I don't jump these things anymore. What's really scary is that I had one sewn to my jumpsuit collar for a while (Old School-but not with velcro) and that would have been a bit sportier with the same malfunction... As a jumper who wants to open every canopy I jump up (by loosening the chest strap and spreading the risers, which the slider impedes, not to mention loss of situational awareness with a slider obstructing vision) Here's my fix: Removable slider (Not full RDS) with slider blocks on the risers. I have one on my Velo, and on my Pilot (WS rig). If I don't have time to get the slider off, I pull it down over the blocks and get to the ground safely. It works, admittedly adds some complication and opens me up for the possibility of a miss-rigged slider. It's my system, not for everybody-but I like it. -Harry"Sometimes you eat the bar, and well-sometimes the bar eats you..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rwieder 0 #43 May 5, 2013 QuoteGood Lord, you guys. It's freakin'' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Heck, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. When I was Jumping SDSL & SDH, My rigger made me one, I thought it was really cool, and it is, I still use it. I caught more grief over that slider keeper than I did for swooping the area where the RW jumpers were holding a business convention in the LZ. I've got several Jumpsuits with the doggone things already sewed on them. (Tony's) WTHeck? Drama, Drama, Drama......-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #44 May 6, 2013 I still think split sliders are the way to go. I had one years ago and loved it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Divalent 89 #34 April 11, 2013 I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #35 April 11, 2013 Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #36 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #37 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. Actually, most RSLs are velcroed to the rig. So if one would be concerned with velcro not releasing they should disconnect the RSL IMO. I use the magnetic version, and I know for sure it let's go. Not because I have cut away, but since it sometimes "drops" my slider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #38 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. Yup....'odds are' everything will work just fine. But like I said, I still (personally) don't like putting something on the HC behind me...not on my last chance. . ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #39 April 12, 2013 Quote Quote Quote Quote I'm trying to envision what scenario you are worried about. I mean, if you have stowed your slider, then at one point you had a fully opened main above you, so even if things later go to shits, I'm thinking that at worse you will have a big draggy ball of crap above you yanking back at just about 1g. And once the risers detach, that means it will be your weight yanking on that velco. If you got a spinning canopy, g forces will be higher, and in the direction forcing a separation of your body from the canopy. I just don't see a small patch of velcro being much of a hinderance (even if aligned so that it need a shear force to separate it). 'Odds are' it'll tear off and everything will be rosey... Then again, if it takes a heartbeat to tear off and the risers are released enough to pull the RSL you're firing a reserve into that mess... A stretch maybe...but the system wasn't designed to have a 3rd attachment point. It wasn't TSO'd with a knob attached to a reserve flap. Since there are ways of 'stowing' the slider that don't require attaching it to the HC...why not go with that? Good Lord, you guys. It's f*ckin' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Hell, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. Yup....'odds are' everything will work just fine. But like I said, I still (personally) don't like putting something on the HC behind me...not on my last chance. . But he's not attaching it to the H/C. He said specifically that he attached the little Velcro strap to the collar of the jumpsuit. I agree that the "ball and bungee" attached to the reserve flaps seem like an invitation for trouble. And I try very hard to look at something and envision a "failure mode." Interestingly, but not too surprisingly, I'm far better at spotting potential issues in someone else's stuff than my own ideas. And I really can't see any real issues with Chuck's idea. Small patch of Velcro, not a lot of force to release it. It's right by the 3 rings, so it's not likely to pull anything in an odd direction when the main gets chopped. And although it's theoretically possible for the main to be in some direction other than straight "up" (Up meaning over your head, even though the earth may not be directly under your feet), the chances of it are really low. If the main is out, it will be over your head."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #40 April 12, 2013 But he's not attaching it to the H/C. He said specifically that he attached the little Velcro strap to the collar of the jumpsuit. Quote Duh...guess the wife is right...time for NEW glasses! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #41 April 12, 2013 Quote But he's not attaching it to the H/C. He said specifically that he attached the little Velcro strap to the collar of the jumpsuit. Quote Duh...guess the wife is right...time for NEW glasses! Meh. I had to read it twice to realize that he wasn't attaching it to the H/C. Chuck is the first one I've seen that doesn't tie something to the H/C. And this is apparently "old school." Sometimes those "old farts" know a thing or two. Every other idea for a "Slider Tie" attaches somewhere on the upper part of the H/C. Usually to a reserve flap in some way. Some are more "secure" (bad idea IMO) some are less (not a good idea, just less bad)."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
angryelf 0 #42 May 4, 2013 I have personally had an issue with a ball and bungee (AAD fire which led to a canopy transfer at -700ft). As a result of having to manually pull the device off of my reserve flap, I don't jump these things anymore. What's really scary is that I had one sewn to my jumpsuit collar for a while (Old School-but not with velcro) and that would have been a bit sportier with the same malfunction... As a jumper who wants to open every canopy I jump up (by loosening the chest strap and spreading the risers, which the slider impedes, not to mention loss of situational awareness with a slider obstructing vision) Here's my fix: Removable slider (Not full RDS) with slider blocks on the risers. I have one on my Velo, and on my Pilot (WS rig). If I don't have time to get the slider off, I pull it down over the blocks and get to the ground safely. It works, admittedly adds some complication and opens me up for the possibility of a miss-rigged slider. It's my system, not for everybody-but I like it. -Harry"Sometimes you eat the bar, and well-sometimes the bar eats you..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #43 May 5, 2013 QuoteGood Lord, you guys. It's freakin'' velcro an inch and a half square. It releases VERY easily. Heck, the RSL requires more force to pull a reserve pin after a cutaway than the velcro does to release. When I was Jumping SDSL & SDH, My rigger made me one, I thought it was really cool, and it is, I still use it. I caught more grief over that slider keeper than I did for swooping the area where the RW jumpers were holding a business convention in the LZ. I've got several Jumpsuits with the doggone things already sewed on them. (Tony's) WTHeck? Drama, Drama, Drama......-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #44 May 6, 2013 I still think split sliders are the way to go. I had one years ago and loved it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
