Gypsy Moths - Howard. Is it still flying?

[kkeenan 13]

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Howard Row...just behind Stagger Wing Row...!

Howards are nice, but those Staggerwings are a work of art.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[mjosparky 3]

Oh yes, Stagger Wings.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[airtwardo 6]

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Oh yes, Stagger Wings.

***

I figured any mere mention would get your head popping up outta the hole!

I stopped a looked HARD at every one there..they ALL were PERFECT!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mjosparky 3]

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Howard Row...just behind Stagger Wing Row...!

Howards are nice, but those Staggerwings are a work of art.

A Staggerwing is what a Howard wants to be when it grows up.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[wartload 0]

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Oh yes, Stagger Wings.

Then you may like these pictures of my youngest son - age 8 at the time these were taken. The plane belongs to a guy that I taught how to fly many years back, then lost track of. When we made contact, he offered to take the kids up, then left each of them have the controls for about a half hour.

This kid hadn't been at the controls of a plane before, but he had a few hundred hours of flight simulator time. Because he couldn't see over the panel, he flew the thing on instruments, keeping the ball pretty well centered and doing controlled turns. When he cranked the thing around in a steep turn, my buddy looked a little apprehensive, but he let him keep on the controls ... but he drew the line when Dave asked, "Ok if I loop it?"

[kallend 1,623]

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Plane crashed in 32 seconds

If they walked away, that wasn't a crash, it was an acceptable landing.
Sparky

Right. And after an excellent landing you can use the plane again.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mjosparky 3]

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Using some of the first student piggyback gear a T10 was drapped over the tail at 3500'.

John,

I just looked at the picture again. How did the canopy get over the left horizontal?

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[jbrasher 0]

The picture was taken very shortly after the crash, just after Tommie got out of the airplane and before he ran out of film. The risers are hanging off the left stabilizer so my guess is during the landing. The main (apex) went over the right stabilizers and the student cut-away shortly there after and the plane must have towed it risers following until the landing.
The fence next to the plane naturally belonged to "farmer mcNasty" of course; but it mostly missed his property

Red, White and Blue Skies,

John T. Brasher D-5166

[strange 0]

The Howard was still sitting in the weeds at southern Parachute in 1972-1973. Leon had the wings inspected and found worms infesting the spar. As long as I was there it never flew. Too Bad.

[danchapman 0]

Hello Nitrochute- I'm new to this forum and it gives me a chance to remenisce (sp) about the old days. Well, you posted about the crash of the Howard dga18 in May '66 at New Hanvoer, Pa. I was on the first load that morning, it was competition and I was there with the Hudson Valley Club out of Gardiner, NY. As usual, I was broke but the event organisers let me help judge, marking landings for accuracy, in the pea gravel, in lieu of entry fees. As was typical, the judges made the first jump of the day, so the competitors could watch, then we landed and discussed our spot with the competitors. I went up on the first load, which was incomplete, only 4 or 5 jumpers, all jump and pulls, nowhere new gross load.
After landing, the Howard took on a full load of fuel and a full load of jumpers, every one from the US Navel Club at Lakehust NJ as I recall. Moreover, it was student accuracy, so they all had less than 35 jumps. Their JM was Mac McGraw, well known to jumpers from the 60's in the NE, and the Cap't of the Navy Team I believe.
I watched the entire flight, from takeoff to climb out and stall at about 1100' to crash and burn in the farmers field next to the DZ.
Mac was also a private pilot, he was in the door and looked to the pilot when the stall occured. The pilot nodded that conveyed 'I got it' to Mac, who hestated for a second then bailed and opened about 5-600 ft. I don't recall if he pulled his main or reserve. A second jumper followed immediately but was too low. The plane hit nose a little down and exploded in a fireball as we ran to the accident site. The body of the second jumper was about 30 ft away.
The Howard dga was not known as a gentle handing aircraft, and the pilot had a full load of fuel and jumpers. On the flight before the pilot had instructed us, as was customary, to huddle foward as much as possible on takeoff and climbout, to avoid the dreaded tail heavy stall condition. I suspect the jumpers redistributed themselves during climbout, moving cg rearward. The pilot had a commercial rating, 300 hrs total with 7 in the Howard. That Howard had a big old P&W radial hanging off the nose and he must have been right up against gross.
The thoughts on watching it drop was how slow it appeaded to be falling, like a leaf, and that the nose was not down, that is it was not a nosed down spiral, at least at first. Then there was the unreality of it all, 'this can't be happening' thing.
The wreck took less than 5 minutes to burn all that fuel. We all just packed up and left, competition canceled.

[nitrochute 2]

thanks for sharing your eyewitness account. i posted a published account from(i believe) bill ottley that was in either parachutist or the MEPA newsletter.tho i knew Mac Macgraw, i never asked him because i figured that it was probably a too painful event that he would rather not relive. we lost Mac in 2008 after an emergency landing(helicopter).as he exited the damaged helo, the skid collapsed and he was killed by the rotor.

[danchapman 0]

Very sorry to hear about Mac, who was a good guy.
He spoke briefly after the wreck, and before bailing he tried to get a student past him and out- next to impossible the way they were seated in the Howard.
He hollered words to the effect of 'follow me' when he exited. If I remember correctly the student who bailed pulled his main, which was still in sleeve at impact, rather than his reserve.
Bill Ottley used to jump in NJ from time to time in the 60's. You may recall he had a Bell Helmet with his initials in bold type- WHO?- just like that, with the question mark, across the front.

[oldwomanc6 38]

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Here's a look at it :-)
Early 80's after a flood at Elsinore we moved to Bear Valley. Using some of the first student piggyback gear a T10 was drapped over the tail at 3500'.
Plane crashed in 32 seconds with the pilot having some control .
Student cutaway to resrve 5 others walked away. Pilot cut face?
Tom Sanders took the picture.

I was looking through the H&T threads, and this one jumped out at me. The location of Bear Valley is somewhat confusing, but the details of the crash are what I remember.

Did this airplane crash more than once after Elsinore flooded? I ask this, since I was on the airport (Thompson Field, Murrietta, CA) the day this aircraft crashed.

After the Flood, the operation set up there for a very short while. We didn't jump for long there, because of the short runway and grape stakes everywhere, to say nothing of the trees.

Does anybody else remember any more details of this short-lived DZ?

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[jbrasher 0]

Hi Lisa,

We were actually there twice. The first time Elsinore flooded and then the lake receded about 9 months later and we moved back only to be flooded out again the next year. After that the DZ operation moved to Hemet, CA but only lasted around 6 months before folding.
What do you remember?

Red, White and Blue Skies,

John T. Brasher D-5166

[oldwomanc6 38]

John, I dug a little deeper after my post, and figured out why the Bear Valley comment confused me; The name of the airport was Thompson Field/Bear Creek Airport.

Then

Now

I didn't jump there for very long, and don't think I went back after the second flood, because I started jumping mostly at Perris by then. It was a small DZ, and for someone who had ~200 jumps at that point, it was kind of scary, and Perris was a much larger area. I remember newly planted grapes w/stakes, but couldn't see them in the pictures. Anybody remember them, or am I getting senile?

I remember Thundercloud (I think it was him, anyway) had a malfuntion, landed in the trees and puntured a lung.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[mccurley 0]

Just too cool having his shirt match the colour scheme of the plane

Watch my video Fat Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI

[bravoniner 0]

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the howard dga 15 is good airplane.back in 1966 the one they had at united parachute club in Pa. went in .aircraft stalled at about 500 feet(pilot error)and barrel rolled left onto its back and went in with a full fuel load .only one jumper survived after exiting the aircraft while the door was straight up.second jumper got out too low.

I'm pretty sure this is the Howard in question. It carried jumpers at the short-lived and now long-defunct Air City DZ in Sturtevant, WI, for a couple of years before heading to PA. These photos are probably circa 1964 or '65, taken at Air City.

B9

[WGore 0]

What a waste putting a nose wheel on a beautiful airplane like that. That gives new meaning to Butt Ugly.

GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!

[bravoniner 0]

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What a waste putting a nose wheel on a beautiful airplane like that. That gives new meaning to Butt Ugly.

No disagreement there. I think there were two tri-gear mod DGA-15s in jump service about the same time (the other one on the west coast somewhere).

B9

[chuteshack 4]

the actual howard involved in the united parachute club crash was N9120H

[bravoniner 0]

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the actual howard involved in the united parachute club crash was N9120H

I stand corrected. Thanks.

Wonder what happened to N74696, then. It's not in the FAA registry (at least under that N number) anymore.

B9

[WGore 0]

Greene County, Xenia OH had a 650HP Howard back in the mid 60s. That thing would give any turbine a run for the money.
I was in the Army at the time and only got to make one jump from it before it was severely damaged in an off field landing. I was on leave and it was Christmas Day 66'. Went to 16,500 and it had no door, air temp was -31*F at altitude, I didn't do that anymore after that. Just about everyone on board had some level of frostbite.

GUNFIRE, The sound of Freedom!