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tbrown

Who's Jumped a Strato Star ?

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here's the picture of the "(rings not seen) & ropes" and the old ripcord system on a low altitude, jump and pull from a UH-H. The old ropes did show attached to the old spring type pilot chute.

:-)



Very nice. Yes, the original setup came with it's own deployment bag, rings on the bottom of the canopy, and the reefing rope passed through all the rings and then ran up through the center of the canopy (there was a cotton square of material there with grommets for the lines to prevent burning of the bottom and top surfaces of the canopy) and attached typically to a MA-1 pilot chute. When you deployed, something like 30 feet of reefing line stowed on the bag left first, followed by the bag. Then the suspension lines, also stowed on the bag would deploy. Bag comes off next. Then as the canopy tries to inflate, it has to pull all that reefing line with the drag of the pilot chute down through those grommets. This was so much more effective than the old rings on top (Para-Plane) that opening went from firm (or brutal) to super soft and there was no longer a need to reef the bag differently for sub-terminal vs. terminal opening. It was the beginning of a new era. The introduction of the slider about a year later cemented the end of the round era as it made square reserves possible and made openings even more reliable and predictable.

When Bill Booth and I went to pack the thing for the first time, we had to call the factory as the instructions they sent were hand written and not very clear. I never had a problem with that canopy and would not hesitate to jump one today :)

-----------------------
Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

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That's a great video of some safe landings, Roge.. but.. er... you were short 1 guy on your RW there !! :)



Hmmm, that's confusing to me as I am not in any of the RW shots in that film (as far as I have been able to determine)...

-----------------------
Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

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Hi Roger,

Thanks for the very technical narrative of the square chute deployment system. As I was reading your description, it was like traveling back in time. Every step I could visualize with ease, including that of the old para-plane. My para-plane had lots of line burns compared to that of the *Star. What a great improvement in technology for a new era. Thank you again for the fond memories...

We did not have the luxury to get back to the factory at that time. I guess we were half a world away; so we had to rely on gut-feel. We did not have the internet then. GREAT!

By the way, I saw your stand-up landing. I can still remember doing some of those, too! :-))) I always loved playing around the toggle lines (brakes) between 33% to 50% and the final flair at 75% to 85%; till a feather type touchdown. Controls were not too heavy. Back then, I didn't realize that the steering lines could break. Glad that it never did...OK!

I'm attaching pictures of your nice landing... I hope you like them.

Regards,

Chito

P.S. when I get back to So. Pasadena, Ca. this September 2011, I will go to some nearby drop zone and see for myself how they do it nowadays... Who knows... I might do a jump or two? :-)))

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Hi Roger,

Thanks for the very technical narrative of the square chute deployment system. As I was reading your description, it was like traveling back in time. Every step I could visualize with ease, including that of the old para-plane. My para-plane had lots of line burns compared to that of the *Star. What a great improvement in technology for a new era. Thank you again for the fond memories...

We did not have the luxury to get back to the factory at that time. I guess we were half a world away; so we had to rely on gut-feel. We did not have the internet then. GREAT!

By the way, I saw your stand-up landing. I can still remember doing some of those, too! :-))) I always loved playing around the toggle lines (brakes) between 33% to 50% and the final flair at 75% to 85%; till a feather type touchdown. Controls were not too heavy. Back then, I didn't realize that the steering lines could break. Glad that it never did...OK!

I'm attaching pictures of your nice landing... I hope you like them.

Regards,

Chito

P.S. when I get back to So. Pasadena, Ca. this September 2011, I will go to some nearby drop zone and see for myself how they do it nowadays... Who knows... I might do a jump or two? :-)))



Thanks! I just found I was in this video when someone posted it here recently.

Landing my Strato-Star: As you can see from the video, I was very good at doing a full flare at the correct altitude. If you watch, one of the next Strato-Star landings on the video they guy really flares too low and too fast. Even though he stands up, it is not near the light landing he could have had if flaring correctly. I still see this problem today. For me, if there was no wind, I stood up with both feet pretty easily. If there was 3mph or better, I could one foot stand up. I don't remember ever not standing it up. When I reached the magic jump number at Z-Hills that allowed you to jump a square (100), I found someone willing to lend me their Para-Plane and proceeded to jump it, then an original Foil, an original Sled, and the Para-Cloud. For some reason I had a natural feel for them and stood them all up easily. Before getting the "Ramjet" nickname from Roger Nelson, I was sometimes called Roger Ramair because I was always jumping one of those dangerous square canopies. Interestingly, I never had a malfunction on a square even with the weird reefing systems of the day. I was told that 1 in 10 jumps resulted in a reserve ride when I started jumping them; but I believe it wasn't quite that bad though I certainly saw some cutaways from them.

Today, it's not so much getting the canopy to open as it is getting to the ground and landing it in one piece.

-----------------------
Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

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Yup! You had a very good feel of your descent and forward speeds to do that stand-up flared landing. Some don't have that because of poor speeds and too much target fixation. I remember the old cheapo saying, "eyes at the horizon." :-)))

I had an air force pilot friend who jumped the squares, too. Red flew both the rotary and fixed wings by profession, but never had a good flared stand-up landing. He always was coming in too fast, and more often than not, landed, (i approximate, with 25% brakes) on his butt, like he was seated on his a/c pilot seat. I guess he was too conscious w/ his stall speed. Yes, I saw his stalls too before impact in some of his landings. Anyways, it has finally taken its toll. Today at 64 yrs old, he feels a lot of pain around his pelvis area, he says.

BTW, I like this quote: "Today, it's not so much getting the canopy to open as it is getting to the ground and landing it in one piece." Standing-up! Right you are...

Good Job, RamJet!

:-)

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RamJet,

BTW, I like your story about the various squares you flew. I was also, sort of the test pilot of different system during my time. hehehehe... it did keep my adrenalin up all the time. I guess i became addicted to that...

...and during landings, one has to be in control; don't let the canopy speed control you... you have to take control of your descent and forward speeds to have a great landing.

I was going to say, ...during landings... I always wanted to land close to a friend standing near the "target." They didn't realize until after that i was always using them as reference for my altitude and speed. They found out my secret, eventually... hehehehehe... Soon, after, a lot of us were doing stand-up landings.

:-)

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Yup! You had a very good feel of your descent and forward speeds to do that stand-up flared landing. Some don't have that because of poor speeds and too much target fixation. I remember the old cheapo saying, "eyes at the horizon." :-)))

I had an air force pilot friend who jumped the squares, too. Red flew both the rotary and fixed wings by profession, but never had a good flared stand-up landing. He always was coming in too fast, and more often than not, landed, (i approximate, with 25% brakes) on his butt, like he was seated on his a/c pilot seat. I guess he was too conscious w/ his stall speed. Yes, I saw his stalls too before impact in some of his landings. Anyways, it has finally taken its toll. Today at 64 yrs old, he feels a lot of pain around his pelvis area, he says.

BTW, I like this quote: "Today, it's not so much getting the canopy to open as it is getting to the ground and landing it in one piece." Standing-up! Right you are...

Good Job, RamJet!

:-)



Thanks for the frame grab and the nice caption you put on it! I'm now 58 and other than great memories, have no left over issues from skydiving. Today, my sport is competitive water-skiing in the slalom event. You can see a shot of me in competition on this site: http://www.rclarks.freehomepage.com/photo.html

I don't know if I'll ever jump again. I have thought about it and have a standing offer from a friend that still jumps for a free re-cert jump in Deland, so still a possibility.

-----------------------
Roger "Ramjet" Clark
FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519

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Welcome RamJet!

Please do tell me if you ever jump again... We are 59 yrs. old here, and 60, come November. I will do the same, if you take your friend's offer. :-)))

Just read on Bill Booth. although, i never lost a ripcord. Didn't realize Bill was the one who invented the throw-away pilot chute. GREAT! We owe a lot to him. Great invention. Pls., thank him for me.

Well, golf keeps me busy, of late. I walk no less than 12 miles a week, and that should keep our legs strong for awhile, till our next jump. hehehehe... But water-skiing should keep you in shape, too!

Do tell me if you ever jump. I always loved suiting up, hear the hum of the engines to full-throttle, the exit, free-fall, and all that, till our next jump.

:-)

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My first rig in 1980 was a Strato Star with a 26' reserve in a PA [ Parachutes Australia] container. Put 28 jumps on the Strat, landings were okay here and there but I guess better than the old surplus C -9 's and T-10's ! Switched to a GQ Security Unit with far better results. I seem to recall that the Strato had hard toggles, big old things that looked like they were made out of perspex. Anybody remember those ? My Dad gave me money for college and I used most of it to buy the Strat - boy, was he mad at me ...

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Hi Pat:
You brought up some nice memories. I remember "Norton" (what ever happened to him?) and Steve. I also jumped a Strat. Mine was gold and black. I did a lot of air-to-air photo work and jumpmastering at Antioch. Even flew a few loads before I wrecked the 182 and 206 taxiing in one day. That was in my slightly "lighter" days (195 v 205) and I was even able to slope soar the back side of the bowl a couple of times. I was up in that area a couple of weeks ago and stayed in Concord overnight but couldn't make myself go out and see to old DZ area. The GoogleEarth pics are bad enough.

I was flying my Strat on a demo at Oakland Army Terminal in July of 1979 when I stalled it at about 50 feet on the second jump of the day. I took the brunt of the landing on the ball of my right foot. Put the navicular over to the outside of the foot. Was in surgery that night and spent 9 days in Letterman Army Hospital and a bunch of weeks in a cast. Not the most fun time of my life. I hope I can catch up with some of the other people who jumped at Antioch on here.
If you know how many guns you have - you don't have enough!

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Strato Stars opened well and were reliable. In windy OK where spotting was pretty important for PC's and cheapos, we Strato Star guys knew we could 'always' get back !!! It was pretty neat. :)

( Mine never did malfunction.... but for those that did, I suppose the subsequent ride on a Navy conical was pretty exciting, but not for very long, ha ha !! )

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After the first couple of jumps with "ropes and rings" I converted mine to a system that I designed. Started off with a plain slider and found that it was still pretty stout on opening, which is NOT fun with a camera on your helmet. I installed a long bridle line that went through the canopy and attached to the slider. When the ripcord (pre-throw out days) was pulled, the pilot chute took off and deployed the long bridle, which pulled the bagged canopy off and let out the suspension lines. Once the canopy was in the air the pilot chute slowed the slider down enough for a nice opening. No sharp snatches, just a gentle sitting up position and slow opening. After opening I would pump the braked a couple of times to bring the slider down and I was good to go. Never a malfunction with the Strat. I still have it and at times get the urge to drag it out, re-pack the reserve and go make one. The only thing holding me back is the cost of the "re-training" I'd have to go through in order to do a freefall. Oh well, maybe one of these days.
If you know how many guns you have - you don't have enough!

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After the first couple of jumps with "ropes and rings" I converted mine to a system that I designed. Started off with a plain slider and found that it was still pretty stout on opening, which is NOT fun with a camera on your helmet. I installed a long bridle line that went through the canopy and attached to the slider. When the ripcord (pre-throw out days) was pulled, the pilot chute took off and deployed the long bridle, which pulled the bagged canopy off and let out the suspension lines. Once the canopy was in the air the pilot chute slowed the slider down enough for a nice opening. No sharp snatches, just a gentle sitting up position and slow opening. After opening I would pump the braked a couple of times to bring the slider down and I was good to go. Never a malfunction with the Strat. I still have it and at times get the urge to drag it out, re-pack the reserve and go make one. The only thing holding me back is the cost of the "re-training" I'd have to go through in order to do a freefall. Oh well, maybe one of these days.



What you are describing sounds like pilot chute controlled reefing or “spider slider” first used on the Jalbert Para Foils made by North American.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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That may well be. I came up with the system while working on my Rigger license at Perry Stevens loft. Did all the sewing and rigging myself and had never seen the Jalbert system. The pilot chute bridle used a solid woven nylon line that I found in the loft. Worked great. I'm a little concerned about using the Strat again because I've blossomed to 205 from 195 and the manual, as I recall without digging it out, said that the gross weight was about 175. After reading some of the comments here about some of the heavier jumpers having no troubles, I just may go ahead and do it. I still haven't figured out what caused the canopy to stall that one time but I am constantly reminded of the day when my foot gives me Hell.
If you know how many guns you have - you don't have enough!

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After the first couple of jumps with "ropes and rings" I converted mine to a system that I designed. Started off with a plain slider and found that it was still pretty stout on opening, which is NOT fun with a camera on your helmet. I installed a long bridle line that went through the canopy and attached to the slider. When the ripcord (pre-throw out days) was pulled, the pilot chute took off and deployed the long bridle, which pulled the bagged canopy off and let out the suspension lines. Once the canopy was in the air the pilot chute slowed the slider down enough for a nice opening. No sharp snatches, just a gentle sitting up position and slow opening. After opening I would pump the braked a couple of times to bring the slider down and I was good to go. Never a malfunction with the Strat. I still have it and at times get the urge to drag it out, re-pack the reserve and go make one. The only thing holding me back is the cost of the "re-training" I'd have to go through in order to do a freefall. Oh well, maybe one of these days.



What you are describing sounds like pilot chute controlled reefing or “spider slider” first used on the Jalbert Para Foils made by North American.

Sparky



Interesting and nostalgic thread.
My first square jump was on a Strato Star with rings and ropes. If I hadn't been told about the openings before hand I would have thought I had a streamer.

When I finally got my own square it was a 5-Cell parafoil with a spider slider. It worked well, but occasionaly would hang up for a second or so. All in all, the standard sliders were more consistent. Once open, however, I felt the canopies were comparable in performance.

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All:

New to the forum, so I know this post is as late. I jumped a Star in Antioch and Acampo in the late 70s and early 80s. I purchased this from Perry Stevens (I think it was on consignment) so I don't remember who actually owned it. Would really like to know if anyone remembers this canopy around Antioch, Yolo or other Nor Cal DZs.

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Pat. I remember that canopy well from my days at Antioch. I do recall that Gus got Norton's Orange/Black rig. Norton was lost at sea piloting a single engine airplane to or from Hawaii as I recall. I think I made a few lifts with you back in the day.
DOC

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