Triangle Parachutes..

[howardwhite 4]

Here are a couple more Rogallo wing pix, taken at Orange, MA, probably during the '65 Nationals. Canopy (probably the same one in both pix) bears the Pioneer logo, and was presumably a test model, since AFAIK Pioneer never sold any -- at least into the sport market.

Also from the same batch of scans a Barish sailwing jumped by Lee Guilfoyle, D-50, at the '65 Nationals.

HW

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi howard,

Looks like that guy in the first photo may be wearing a 3-canopy rig.



Jerry

[murrays 0]

Quote

Canopy (probably the same one in both pix) bears the Pioneer logo, and was presumably a test model, since AFAIK Pioneer never sold any -- at least into the sport market.

Also from the same batch of scans a Barish sailwing jumped by Lee Guilfoyle, D-50, at the '65 Nationals.

HW

Those are very cool shots. Are the two triangular shots of the same canopy? The lines are much longer in the second photo...incredibly long! T10 long under a tiny triangle....that must have swung around a lot!

That Barish Sailwing is very wild looking!!

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[howardwhite 4]

Quote

Are the two triangular shots of the same canopy? The lines are much longer in the second photo...incredibly long!
That Barish Sailwing is very wild looking!!

I think they are of the same canopy. Sometime, I'll have to ask the guy who took them. But I think the apparent difference in line length might be a matter of perspective -- the one more directly underneath does not display the length.

What is more interesting from a development point of view is that there seems to be no sort of opening shock inhibitor; the later production Rogallo wings initially used a strap that wrapped around line groups and released them in sequence (too complicated to explain in a sentence -- have to draw a diagram or post a movie.) Later wings used sliders, I think.

I can ask Lee Guilfoyle, who probably was among the jumpers, or Loy Brydon, who also made early Rogallo jumps (I've seen both of them in the past couple of months and have email and phone contacts.)

For Jerry Baumchen -- yes, it's quite possible that it's a three-canopy system. I'll look at the original; this version was considerably down-sampled to meet posting limitations. But such systems were common for Pioneer testing at the time; I have other pictures of jumps from that time with additional canopies.

As to the Sailwing, yes, it's a wierd canopy. I lost a coin toss to jump one in the late '60s. The guy who won the toss (we had only one rig that would hold it) had to chop. But David Barish, its developer, was still testing modifications to it at Lakewood, NJ into the '70s, I'm told by Someone Who Was There -- he's got lots of pictures and movies and I plan to scan/archive them this winter.

HW

[howardwhite 4]

Quote

Looks like that guy in the first photo may be wearing a 3-canopy rig.

Here is the best closeup of the rig I can muster without rescanning the original, which is 40 miles west of where I sit at the moment. It's not possible to see if he's wearing a front-mounted reserve.

Also attached is a picture of Pete ("the incredible packing machine") Peterson just after exiting a Norseman at Orange. He's wearing a piggyback rig and a chest-mounted reserve, and is almost certainly testing some canopy for Pioneer. (I took the picture, but have no idea about what's in the main.)

HW

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi Howard,

The photo of Pete is a little interesting. He seems to be wearing a Security piggyback rig with the chest pack added to it.

Also, it looks like the reserve ripcord housing is going to the reserve container on the right side (over his right shoulder); quite different than a normal XBO piggyback. Maybe Security made it that way just for this rig.

Jerry

[howardwhite 4]

Could be Security, could be Pioneer, could even be Strong (my first pig, which I bought when I started S/L jumpmastering in 1967, was a Strong container on a Pioneer harness, and had front D-rings.)

Need to go look at some old books and catalogs. Also will go back to the original scan and see if there's more detail (this one, as others, was sliced and diced to fit upload requirements.)

HW

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi howard,

Quote

Security, could be Pioneer, could even be Strong

I vote Security. Pioneer's ParaTwin used a reserve pin spacing the same as their 3 & 4 pin back packs
(5 1/2" as I recall, but do not hold me to it); they just cut the plate shorter to fit.

I don't think Strong ever made a piggyback with a reserve that bulky. Security's was really just a chest pack relocated to the back.

But I have been wrong before and . . .

Jerry

[howardwhite 4]

Here's another picture of Pete boarding Norseman with Pig rig. (Not guaranteed to be the same one, and no chest mount in this one.)

Lousy color; I quick 'n dirty Photoshopped for sharpening details and let color find its own way. (At right is Vic Deveau.)

HW

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi howard,

That I am very sure is a Pioneer rig looking at the snap pads and the ripcord handle.

Oh, BTW I was wrong about Strong never making a bulky reserve container. In about '69 - '70 or so he built & sold a rig that had the Stylemaster main & reserve containers on the back; very bulky.

Jerry

[howardwhite 4]

Quote

That Barish Sailwing is very wild looking!!

Here's a better Sailwing picture -- the best I've seen. (And I don't remember ever seeing a red Sailwing.) It comes from a Pioneer Parachute Co. annual report and was recently posted on Flickr by Jon Guignard, an early rigger at Orange.
It makes clear how few lines the Sailwing has.

HW

[murrays 0]

Howard,

How did you steer the Sailwing? To me, that picture looks like it only had three control lines connected to one steering line?? Which doesn't make much sense I'm very confused from looking at that photo.

Imagine how small you could biuld one with modern materials! Whether that would be a good idea is, of course, another topic

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[highspeeddirt 0]

what you are seeing as the steering/control lines is actually the sleeve retainer line and pilotchute bridle

[murrays 0]

Thank-you!!

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[maggott 0]

Got about 50 dactyl jumps and I still jump it from time to time.
i have also put a jump on one of those russian Ragollo reserves... I believe it's called a Telka.

~Maggott
__________________________________________________________________________________
"Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone?"

[Zing 2]

This thread made go dig out some old logbooks where I found jumps on a ThunderBow, Crossbow (not a triangle), Irvin Parawing, Delta II and of course, my Paradactyl.
Never had any malfunctions on the Irving or Delta II, but then I only jumped them a couple times each.
I jumped my dactyl more than 2000 times and had two cutaways, one a streamer, the other a couple broken lines and a blown panel. I was a pretty light weight back then, and that dactyl served me well and I usually stood it up.
Oh, there was that time I bounced under it on a demo, but that's a another story.

Zing Lurks

[jimp 1]

Hi, Rob,

I'll bring my "Spravochnik Instruktora-parashutista" next time I come down to Pitt. Maybe one of our Russian-speaking friends can do an accurate translation that will help out.

Jim

(edited for spelling)

[lekstrom10k 0]

THe housing you see is the standard main ripcord . It went over the shoulder,past the reserve,then to the top right corner of the main container diagonally to the lower left.It was either two or threepin and you left one out stuffed your pilot chute in. Then closed the soft bottom flap put in the last pin and tucked the corners.The Jump Shack Super Swooper was the only rig tha you pulled up as the housing went down under your arm to the main container.

[riggerrob 558]

Great idea!
We have at least three Russian-speaking regulars who jump at Pitt Meadows.

[davidlayne 5]

We have at least three Russian-speaking regulars who jump at Pitt Meadows.

[riggerrob 558]

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We have at least three Russian-speaking regulars who jump at Pitt Meadows.

Is that legal?

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi lekstrom,

When I first looked at that photo I thought the same thing. And it may just be the main ripcord housing going over his shoulder. However, if you look at the top of the reserve container you will see a ripcord housing (covered) mounted on the right side of the pins/cones, not on the left as would be normal.

Just my observation; I may be wrong,

Jerry