w4p2 0 #1 June 12, 2003 Years ago I heard a story of someone jumping out of plane without rig. According to the story a second jumper then followed, passed a rig for the first one and both of them landed ok. This has supposedly happened in US roughly 25 years ago. Is it a urban legend or does someone know details? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #2 June 12, 2003 No, it is correct. I saw it many years ago on TV. If I remember right, one jumper had an old style (belly) reserve in his hands (might even have exited from a second plane - not quite sure). The other jumper had a harness on with 2 "risers" along his arms with D-rings in his hand. He then flew to the buddy and hooked the 2 rings onto the reserves (chest) attachment points (snap locks) and pulled reserve. I saw a documentary about it with the practise jumps etc. I think it was a well known stunt man and that it was in the 80's.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeFe 0 #3 June 12, 2003 Bill Cole try this there should be a thread on him somewhere down this forum blue ones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #4 June 12, 2003 Bill Cole...who posts on here as "Chuteless" did 2 (I believe) chuteless jumps way back when. I don't know exactly how Bill's jumps were done...I vaguely remember hearing that another jumper held a reserve that he attached to his harness and then opened....perhaps he will tell us the stories with all the facts correct...hey Bill..fill us in!! The chuteless jump where the long risers were used was done by, I believe, Jimmy Tyler. I could be wrong on the name. Pictures of Jimmy Tyler's jump are in Skies Call 3, photos 41-46. He flew up behind the other jumper and attached himself to the other jumper's harness with clips held/attached to his hands. After opening, extra webbing was released and he was suspended about 12-15 feet below the other jumper.-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #5 June 12, 2003 "The Chuteless Jump August ’69 marked the beginning of Bill’s troubles with CSPA. He arranged with a promoter to do a jump without a parachute, flying over to another jumper and snapping a reserve on to his harness. Murray Smith was to film the jump and Larry Costello would hold the reserve for Bill. Over Aug. 18 and 19 Bill and Larry made 4 practice jumps over Parkman, Ohio. Because of the weight differential, Bill made these practice jumps without a reserve chute. Because the jump would be illegal in the US, on Aug. 20th Bill and Larry took off from Ohio in a Beech 18 and flew across Lake Huron to Centralia, near Grand Bend, Ontario. They exited at 13,200’, with Murray Smith filming. Unfortunately, while on the practice jumps Bill had worn a parachute which constricted his jumpsuit, for this one he wore the harness under his jumpsuit with just the risers exiting slits on his chest and running down his arms to the D-rings he would snap onto the reserve. Because there was no harness over his suit he began to have problems floating – he managed to get down to Larry and deploy the reserve, opening at 3000’, but Murray had sunk away and they had virtually no usable film after the exit. It was Bill’s 436th jump."--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #6 June 12, 2003 Bill will probably come on and talk about it - it's been done by 3 people now. First was Rod Pack - I believe in '65 - there's an interesting account on his jump by Lyle Cameron on www.parachutehistory.com Bill did two - as Mikkey quoted, the first was in 1969 over Centralia, Ontario, but the film didn't turn out... Bill did it again in Ohio in 1972 and Mike Swain filmed it this time... His film "Bill Cole's Chuteless Jump' won a Cine golden Eagle award and first place at the 30th International Sports Film Competition in Italy in 1974. You can buy it at www.endlessfall.net Jimmy Tyler did at least two - on the first, as someone said, he hooked on to another guy's harness and they both landed under that chute... On the 2nd, they attached a chest mounted reserve to a board across the open end of a large baker's mixing bowl with a small drogue on it and threw it out the plane ahead of Jimmy. He dove out after it, caught up and hooked the reserve to his harness before opening it. This was shown on 'That's Incredible' with Cathy Lee Crosby in the '80's. Jimmy was quite the guy but he's dead now - Bounced off Half Dome...If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #7 June 12, 2003 Hi Murrays: You and the following posts have it correctly. I would point out here though, that Rod Pack did it 1st on Jan 1965, I did it Aug 20 1969, and July 20 1972, and Jim Tyler did two in (I think 83 and 84). After seeing his second one on TV I phoned his regular DZ to congratulate him. I was infotrmed of his death that had taken place about 2 weeks before. Later, a frenchman did a chuteless jump while in Africa, but I dont know his name. I offered Greg Gasson a chance to do one (without his famous wire attachment) and I would do one at the same time. His chute would come from my airplane, and mine would come from his. He quickly hung the phone up mumbling something that I could not understand. I topok that as a NO. The actual jump is nothing more than a glorified baton pass. The psycological part of the jump is something I built up on for a couple of monmths befiore actually doing the jump. Big Deal??? Not really. Anyhow, kindest regards to all. Bill Cole D41 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #8 June 12, 2003 I would like to point out one other thing. The thing that most interested me in doing the jump was the reaction of other people, like old school friends who I hadnt seen in years, like any of my 8 brothers and 4 sisters, like poeple I worked with on the Police Force, and so on. I experienced a wide range of reactions...all of them interesting. LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #9 June 12, 2003 I found the following on the net : Bill Cole the legend Wow, the stuff you were doing back then! All without cypreses, audibles and every other modern day gadget. I interviewed a British skydiver (Dean Fisher) from the same era for the Skydivemag. Seems that it took a lot more balls to skydive back then, but you guys seemed to have a blast! And you say the chuteless jumps weren't a big deal? You have my respect man! Will Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
w4p2 0 #10 June 12, 2003 The legend lives on Thank You for everyone, who has contributed to this thread. It is amusing how the time flies and 30 years is apparently enough to turn history into history with question marks. I am sure, there are a lot of rookies like myself who have wondered about the stories... weather to believe or not to. Well..... no more questions on that one. My special regards and respects to Mr.Bill Cole. It has been a honor to have your own comments on the matter. Blue skies: w4p2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #11 June 13, 2003 Quote"The legend lives on Thank You for everyone, who has contributed to this thread. It is amusing how the time flies and 30 years is apparently enough to turn history into history with question marks." I really dislike the term 'legend' as it has connotations of just what you speak of - that the story has outgrown the events it speaks of... I have to say that in this case that just isn't true... I have talked to Bill extensively when I wrote the article, saw his logbooks, scrapbooks, clippings. I have talked to people on his 2nd chuteless jump, on his demo teams, and the personal assistant who stepped in to finish a movie for him when he was injured on a jump... I talked to a DZO who CSPA was trying to get tow the party line and kick Cole out after CSPA rejected him (and who basically told CSPA to revoke his school's statis if they want and he's just continue without them). I know a guy on some of his more well known exhibitions and his high altitude jumps (30,000'+). Bill has done everything in that article and more I couldn't fit in. While many people, even his friends tell me Bill can be pig-headed and hard to get along with, the only people who tell me Bill is a liar and a self-aggrandizer are people on the board of CSPA or officials past and present with the competition committee of CSPA. Strangely enough I seem to have caught some of them embellishing the facts a few times myself. The old-timers in power in CSPA just don't like Bill, and the young ones don't really seem to know anything about it and go along with their elders out of some mis-guided respect, rather than making up their own minds... People on the CSPA board seem to feel that everyone agrees with them that Cole is evil personified - but there's a ton of people out there that know different... They just don't have the votes to do anything about it, and some were at some points forced not to acknowledge knowing or jumping with him for fear of damaging their own reputations.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vx99 0 #12 June 13, 2003 Been done in the early 90's by a French guy named Alain Prieur. They use 2 different plane, he was wearing a harness with riser oufitted with "B12" type quick connectors. Patrick Passe "swooped in the canopy put in a free bag type deplyoment system with two rings sticking out of the bag for the risers to attatch to. The bag was attached to his chess with a cutaway system. He would just dock on Alain, at which time Alain hooked up the riser, the bag was the release from Patrick chess and the canopu would be deployd when the bag was released. Patrick deGayardon was flying back up with a tandem rig just in case. They did this LIVE on French TV, I have a Copy of the tape. Alain was later killed while doing the stunt at an airshow. It is rumored that he did that jump 5 or 6 times. A malfonctioned canopy killed him, not failure to get it to them in freefall. Glenn_______________________________________________ More rules is NEVER the right the answer..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites w4p2 0 #13 June 13, 2003 Using the word legend, was by no means intended to be disrespectful. Nor was it intended to question the reality of any of the events under discussion, just the opposite. In my native language legend is considered as adjective with positive qualities, and that was it's intended use in my posting. Never the less the thread achieved it's purpose and brought into light something that at least for us green horns, was fading into the twilight. Respectfully: w4p2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuteless 1 #14 June 13, 2003 Thanks Skypuppy: I dont like the reference to "legend" either. I hear it too many times regarding movie stars etc. I am neither. I was simply a guy doing what he liked and being paid for it, and having a great time . I wish I had started earlier and got in on a bit more of the barnstorming type jumps at air shows. Those I really enjoyed, and I can only imagine how exciting those jumps were back in the 1920s. I did my best to capture some of the 1920s feelings by doing "unusual" stunt jumps. The crowdss loved it, and so did I. No, I am not any "legend". I've been involved in many exciting and dangerous activities in and out of parachuting, but those things were just to get my batteries charged up. I like the risk, and perhaps the greatest adrenalin rush I ever had was the malfunction and low opening on your chute at Penetang. Anyhow, thanks for your support and such....but you are right, legend does not apply here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites juanesky 0 #15 June 19, 2003 Mr. Cole, It has been very refreshing as well as incredible reading your post on this site. Thank you for sharing all this knowledge that only has helped improved the sport I trully love. Best regards, JV"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cuchulinn 0 #16 June 19, 2003 Awesome story Bill, thanks for checking in and filling us all in! SMA#18 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skypuppy 1 #17 June 19, 2003 Check the 'suspensions' thread for more.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites metalslug 31 #18 June 20, 2003 Isn't chuteless jumping considerably more common nowadays than the handful of stories in this thread ? I'm thinking that some of these jumps go undocumented, possibly so as not to raise a safety scandal at the DZ involved. First-timers at my DZ get a 10-minute long promotional video of skydiving clips taken by club members.. including a 'fun but not recommended' section lasting a few minutes. I will bet my rig that I saw an approx. 4-second snippet of least one jumper (and possibly even a second jumper in a later clip) freefalling without a rig. Our instructor on my fist jump even mentioned at one point in the training that 'some people do this' .. as though it has happened at least more than once in recent years at this DZ. I'll try to confirm the facts (and regularity) of these incidents if anyone is interested.. and would welcome any correction or confirmation from other DZ members on this. (I still have the video in VHS format but regretably no tools to create a digital multimedia file from it to upload what I saw.)No 'mericans were harmed during the making of this post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skypuppy 1 #19 June 20, 2003 "Isn't chuteless jumping considerably more common nowadays than the handful of stories in this thread ? I'm thinking that some of these jumps go undocumented, possibly so as not to raise a safety scandal at the DZ involved." ------------------------------------------------------------ Frankly I don't really believe it is more common - the only reason to do a jump without a rig would be for publicity/as a stunt/for money, and if it was done it would be marketed... On the other hand if a jump is done with a chute in a velcro-closed container such as the tuxes developed by Mike Zahar for BJ's Bond movies or Greg Gasson's handheld rig, they might be used just for effect in a movie... Look at these attempts - Rod Pack - the greatest stunt ever, Cole's chuteless jumps, Tyler's jumps on "That's Incredible" and Prieur's jumps. You can tell by the names involved in Alain Prieur's jumps that this is big stuff done live on tv and at big airshows... It may have been done and you should look into it more if you can, but I would doubt it very much...If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites metalslug 31 #20 June 21, 2003 Hehe.. I guess when an instructor is training me to save my own life, I take every word he says on that day seriously... including a bit of leg-pull when he points out chuteless jumpers. As it turns out; the video footage of one 'chuteless jumper' was taken from an outdoor wind tunnel/fan at a different DZ. The origins of the second chuteless jumper are less certain.. but I have been told its likely to be more wind tunnel footage. So yeah, he was 'falling' chuteless.. sorta.. about 10 feet off the ground.. I get to keep my rig? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuteless 1 #21 June 21, 2003 LOL......LOL......LOL......LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pop 0 #22 July 2, 2003 QuoteI offered Greg Gasson a chance to do one (without his famous wire attachment) So how does his wire attachment work anyway? Hashe done any chuteless jumps without the wire7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuteless 1 #23 July 3, 2003 no, he hasnt...thats what he told me on the phone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #24 July 3, 2003 Quoteno, he hasnt...thats what he told me on the phone. Wouldn't you say then Bill, Doing it with a wire...would be kinda like french kissin' yer sister through a screen door? "Not quite real?" ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuteless 1 #25 July 3, 2003 yeah LOL LOL LOL LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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vx99 0 #12 June 13, 2003 Been done in the early 90's by a French guy named Alain Prieur. They use 2 different plane, he was wearing a harness with riser oufitted with "B12" type quick connectors. Patrick Passe "swooped in the canopy put in a free bag type deplyoment system with two rings sticking out of the bag for the risers to attatch to. The bag was attached to his chess with a cutaway system. He would just dock on Alain, at which time Alain hooked up the riser, the bag was the release from Patrick chess and the canopu would be deployd when the bag was released. Patrick deGayardon was flying back up with a tandem rig just in case. They did this LIVE on French TV, I have a Copy of the tape. Alain was later killed while doing the stunt at an airshow. It is rumored that he did that jump 5 or 6 times. A malfonctioned canopy killed him, not failure to get it to them in freefall. Glenn_______________________________________________ More rules is NEVER the right the answer..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
w4p2 0 #13 June 13, 2003 Using the word legend, was by no means intended to be disrespectful. Nor was it intended to question the reality of any of the events under discussion, just the opposite. In my native language legend is considered as adjective with positive qualities, and that was it's intended use in my posting. Never the less the thread achieved it's purpose and brought into light something that at least for us green horns, was fading into the twilight. Respectfully: w4p2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #14 June 13, 2003 Thanks Skypuppy: I dont like the reference to "legend" either. I hear it too many times regarding movie stars etc. I am neither. I was simply a guy doing what he liked and being paid for it, and having a great time . I wish I had started earlier and got in on a bit more of the barnstorming type jumps at air shows. Those I really enjoyed, and I can only imagine how exciting those jumps were back in the 1920s. I did my best to capture some of the 1920s feelings by doing "unusual" stunt jumps. The crowdss loved it, and so did I. No, I am not any "legend". I've been involved in many exciting and dangerous activities in and out of parachuting, but those things were just to get my batteries charged up. I like the risk, and perhaps the greatest adrenalin rush I ever had was the malfunction and low opening on your chute at Penetang. Anyhow, thanks for your support and such....but you are right, legend does not apply here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #15 June 19, 2003 Mr. Cole, It has been very refreshing as well as incredible reading your post on this site. Thank you for sharing all this knowledge that only has helped improved the sport I trully love. Best regards, JV"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cuchulinn 0 #16 June 19, 2003 Awesome story Bill, thanks for checking in and filling us all in! SMA#18 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #17 June 19, 2003 Check the 'suspensions' thread for more.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalslug 31 #18 June 20, 2003 Isn't chuteless jumping considerably more common nowadays than the handful of stories in this thread ? I'm thinking that some of these jumps go undocumented, possibly so as not to raise a safety scandal at the DZ involved. First-timers at my DZ get a 10-minute long promotional video of skydiving clips taken by club members.. including a 'fun but not recommended' section lasting a few minutes. I will bet my rig that I saw an approx. 4-second snippet of least one jumper (and possibly even a second jumper in a later clip) freefalling without a rig. Our instructor on my fist jump even mentioned at one point in the training that 'some people do this' .. as though it has happened at least more than once in recent years at this DZ. I'll try to confirm the facts (and regularity) of these incidents if anyone is interested.. and would welcome any correction or confirmation from other DZ members on this. (I still have the video in VHS format but regretably no tools to create a digital multimedia file from it to upload what I saw.)No 'mericans were harmed during the making of this post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #19 June 20, 2003 "Isn't chuteless jumping considerably more common nowadays than the handful of stories in this thread ? I'm thinking that some of these jumps go undocumented, possibly so as not to raise a safety scandal at the DZ involved." ------------------------------------------------------------ Frankly I don't really believe it is more common - the only reason to do a jump without a rig would be for publicity/as a stunt/for money, and if it was done it would be marketed... On the other hand if a jump is done with a chute in a velcro-closed container such as the tuxes developed by Mike Zahar for BJ's Bond movies or Greg Gasson's handheld rig, they might be used just for effect in a movie... Look at these attempts - Rod Pack - the greatest stunt ever, Cole's chuteless jumps, Tyler's jumps on "That's Incredible" and Prieur's jumps. You can tell by the names involved in Alain Prieur's jumps that this is big stuff done live on tv and at big airshows... It may have been done and you should look into it more if you can, but I would doubt it very much...If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metalslug 31 #20 June 21, 2003 Hehe.. I guess when an instructor is training me to save my own life, I take every word he says on that day seriously... including a bit of leg-pull when he points out chuteless jumpers. As it turns out; the video footage of one 'chuteless jumper' was taken from an outdoor wind tunnel/fan at a different DZ. The origins of the second chuteless jumper are less certain.. but I have been told its likely to be more wind tunnel footage. So yeah, he was 'falling' chuteless.. sorta.. about 10 feet off the ground.. I get to keep my rig? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #21 June 21, 2003 LOL......LOL......LOL......LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #22 July 2, 2003 QuoteI offered Greg Gasson a chance to do one (without his famous wire attachment) So how does his wire attachment work anyway? Hashe done any chuteless jumps without the wire7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #23 July 3, 2003 no, he hasnt...thats what he told me on the phone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #24 July 3, 2003 Quoteno, he hasnt...thats what he told me on the phone. Wouldn't you say then Bill, Doing it with a wire...would be kinda like french kissin' yer sister through a screen door? "Not quite real?" ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #25 July 3, 2003 yeah LOL LOL LOL LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
