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cdcollura

CSC HALO Skydive from 23,000 Feet! (July 14-16)

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Good day all,

I saw this ad for 23k (HALO) jumps at CSC (Chicagoland Skydiving Center).

https://www.skydivecsc.com/extreme-altitude-skydiving?utm_campaign=Experienced&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=53902817&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8TqyYGmsOzd_93h46rdOTZTotsCAOxyqE1ww8YsD1AYNwqtsfifQkGGpU8H7EkHGm0yi7pe1nkU97ZzTIwNGySZNy2jw&_hsmi=53902817#licensed-halos

Looks like a decent event, but not sure why they are using a bailout oxygen system. These are not needed below 24k on hi altitude loads. I've jumped many times from 22 / 23k with just aircraft oxygen (not needed in freefall).

I'm wondering if they will get any interest on this, as jump tickets are kinda high ($159 USD).
Fly High ... Don't "Get High"!

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Check out section 6-7 in the SIM. O2 on the plane is required for dives above 15k MSL. Bailout O2 is required for dives above 20k MSL. Above 25k jumpers are supposed to pre-breathe pure O2 for 30 minutes on the ground before take-off as well. There are times when a dz or a pilot will bust the altitude rules (sunset load in particular) but CSC is simply complying with regulations by using bailout O2 on their HALO jumps.

For perspective, the first time I was flying formation loads to altitudes requiring O2, on the very first jump that I used O2, there was no flow through my hose. Since I had never used O2 before, I was using a cannula, and had no idea what to expect, I figured it was on and I just didn't notice. As it came time to exit at 16,500 AGL (18K MSL), I found I was light-headed, but thought it must just be a side effect of breathing pure O2. I was okay on the dive - probably because I made sure to sit completely quietly and breathe deeply and relax as much as possible for the rest of the climb after we reached O2 turn-on altitude. On the next jump, I was on a different plane with a different hose. When O2 turn-on came, I immediately felt it and tasted it, and that was when I realized my hose hadn't been working the first time. And the difference at 16,500 was dramatic. I was clear headed and alert. If I hadn't had the direct comparison, I would never have known there was a problem. I've gotten extra altitude on sunset loads at multiple dzs and never noticed a difference in my mental functioning; but when you get a surprise 15k AGL on the last load of the day you're too stoked to see that you might not be thinking as clearly as you could be.

For a jump from 23k AGL at CSC which is itself at just over 800 feet AGL, you'll be above 15k MSL for 45 seconds to a full minute of freefall if you're belly-flying - and a whole heck of a lot longer if you have a premature deployment. In fact, it would royally SUCK to be under canopy much higher than you're expecting to be when you exit at 23k, for numerous reasons (cold AF? spot vs the uppers?? other air traffic???) and being up there without O2 could kill you.

$159 for a HALO jump to 23k for experienced skydivers sounds like a pretty good deal. Did you see what they charge for a 23k tandem?! Skydance does experienced-skydiver HALO jumps for $575, up to 30k - IF you've made one there before; if you're new to HALO jumps they charge $650. So $159 for the equipment use, the O2 both on the plane (for the jumpers and the pilots) and in the bailout bottle, the ground training required to learn how to use the bailout system, the av-gas required to get the jump plane up that high, and any extra fees the dz has to pay to clear jump operations from altitudes in the commercial airspace range only 70-80 miles from two major international airports... that really doesn't sound bad at all!

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Did the guidelines change in the last several years?

I did a 24k AGL jump at the '06 WFFC from Mullins. We had a proper mask system to use on the plane only. I would be surprised to find out we weren't doing things per guidelines/requirements.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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I did the same 24,000 jump in Mullins' T tail Beech. No problem, nor did I observe or know of anyone else who had a O2 problem.
Sounds like the problem is if the pilot is in compliance, not the skydiver being endangered. Nothing new about that.

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Good day all,

dpreguy

I did the same 24,000 jump in Mullins' T tail Beech. No problem, nor did I observe or know of anyone else who had a O2 problem.
Sounds like the problem is if the pilot is in compliance, not the skydiver being endangered. Nothing new about that.



That's exactly what I was thinking. Having done nearly a dozen high alt jumps, many from 22k or 23k (one nearly 24k), we would breathe oxygen in the plane only, come off at exit point, and in 20 seconds or so we are in "breathable" air, where the tiime of useful consciousness (TUC) is indefinite.

At 22k, the TUC is at least 2 minutes, so exiting without a bailout package is not a problem. I'm wondering myself if this is a new requirement, or simply wasn't being followed EXACTLY?

Z-Hills does 22k (or even 23k) consistently during events there, and never used a bailout system.
Fly High ... Don't "Get High"!

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Quote

I would be surprised to find out we weren't doing things per guidelines/requirements.



Who's guidelines? Mr. Mullins and other DZs seem to set their own on this.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Good day all,

gowlerk

Quote

I would be surprised to find out we weren't doing things per guidelines/requirements.



Who's guidelines? Mr. Mullins and other DZs seem to set their own on this.



The last time I looked at the SIM it had the bailout system recommended for a "broad range", being from 20,000 to 40,000 MSL.

This is kinda meaningless because the "boundary" between 19k and 20k isn't like your'e crossing a less subtle boundary (like above or below water)!

The bailout system becomes more important above 24k, and a must near and above 28k. If CSC was jumping from 30,000 feet, I could understand the use of a bailout system.

Maybe it's to be treated as "familiarization with such a system" or bragging rights. This equipment is also difficult to obtain and quite expensive to rent, so the ticket prices may be high for such a jump (I did 22k at Z-Hills for the price of "2 jump tickets", around $50, when they had them there).
Fly High ... Don't "Get High"!

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I had a similar experience. We were at Lost Prairie on the last load of the day (wingsuit load) and I had bailout oxygen along, since we tended to get "extra altitude" on those loads (14K) and that meant we were actually at 17.5K MSL. I remember getting ready to go, opening the door and zipping up. I looked out and thought it was really dark; the sun had just set and it was hard to see inside the plane.

When the light turned green I turned on the O2 and everything immediately got a lot brighter. I looked around and noticed a few people looking a little blue in the lips that I hadn't noticed before.

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