cobalt openings

[rmcvey 0]

O.K, Ive now put approx 25 jumps on my cobalt 135
and since my first few jumps on it the openings are seemingly getting worse?

The first few openings were amazinglly smooth and on heading, with the slider staying in the up position for approx 2 seconds the coming down in one smooth fluid motion.

Since them ive had spinning twists, huge end cell closure on both sides, slammers, and a generally unpredictble off heading openings.

Ive not changed the way i pack (nose puched halfway to the back, 4-5 rolls in the tail) but when i first got the canopy i was very concious of remaining still and symetrical in the harness, which i believe i still am, but since then am not quite as worried about it.

Any thoughts? I throw out, stare at my heading on the horizon with my shoulders level, wait for the "uumpppphhhh" and look up and watch the opening. If it dives one way i try to lean the other way but it still likes to dance around. Any tips on body positions/packing appreciated.

[drenaline 0]

do you follow the opening procedure like the manual says? just a thought. Put some more rolls to the tail. I have never jumped a cobalt so take everything I said with salt.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[Spy38W 0]

I had one spinner on a 135 from horrid body position and dumping too low, and great openings on a 150 that I demoed for around 70 jumps. The 150 I was demoing did spank my instructor and one other person that jumped it, but never me. I dumped in a track most of the time, sit quite a few times, head down a couple of times, always beautiful.

I didn't do the best pack jobs either, basically, I would clear the d-lines gently push the nose in, quarter the slider, and roll the piss out of the tail. I never tried psychobagging because I was afraid due to the nonstandard openings. I do notice that I started to shift in the harness a lot more to steer it through the opening. That was wierd for me to do while not touching the risers at first, but as time went on I got more used to it. I did have closed end cells occaisionally that I cleared by pulling on the rear risers until they open. They say to use a deep flare with brakes I believe, but I like to take care of post opening things before popping toggles.
I don't have the experience to say what could be causing your problem, note my signature before taking any advice from me..

--

Someday I'm going to owe beer for making it through a reserve repack cycle...

[AggieDave 6]

I put about 35 jumps on a Colbalt a bit ago. I sent it back with the thought that although I did love how it flew, I would never own one. This one due ONLY to how it opened. Not only could I get it to open consistantly (a couple near cutaways from the canopy doing really odd things while opening), I had the worst/hardest opening I've *ever* had. I had to literally shake my head to clear it and check to make sure nothing ripped or any lines broke during the opening. MUCH worst then any of the old Sabres I've jumped.

Some of the opening charateristics: Spinning, extreme cell closures (imagine looking up and seeing a triangle, that's what it looked like), very hard openings and most opened off headings.

I seriously doubt it was packing error, I'm a staff packer that is very meticulous AND this is the only canopy that I've packed that has done these things so consistantly. Packing as much as I pack, it's reasonable to have a bad opening every once in a while, but every time, not as likely.

My solution to my problems with the Colbalt? After exhausting various techniques, having another packer try to pack it better, having my rigger watch me pack it to see if I could do anything differently AND trying the tips that Dan (from Atair) told me to do after a phone conversation, I sent the demo back.

Let me say something else, though: I LOVE how this canopy flew. I've spent the past 6 months demoing just about every elliptical in my skill range (read: Crossfire2, Stilletto, Colbalt, etc) and I thought the Colbalt flew the best out of all of them, the openings were just unacceptable.

I had called to ask if I could keep it another week to try to see if I could work out the openings, but was told flatly no I couldn't, so I sent it back and ordered shiney new canopy from a different manufacture.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[PhreeZone 15]

The Cobalt is a different canopy to pack then anything else at my DZ. No packer can getr to open nice untill I tell them to pack it like a Velocity. If you pack it like a PD Sabre or Tandem you will not like it. If you pack it like a Crossbraced you will love it. That means not pushing the nose back, leaving the all the cells pulled out, not letting any of the slider show out front, no rolling of the nose, etc. I pro pack in a way that riggers just shake their head and walk away. You know what... my Cobalt opens so slow that its common to have a slightly hung slider and the end cells rolled under. Its a totally sweet feeling at having such a slow soft opening that the slider does not have enough force to be forced down the lines. I've got the trick down in keeping the end cell closures to a min by packing it by the steps above. Also my method of packing has tamed just about every canopy including Lightings and Sabres so that has something to do with it too.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AggieDave 6]

I can pack Sabres to open like a dream. The other packer that I had pack a few times for me to see if he could fix it jumps a Velocity and packs for another guy on the DZ that jumps a crossbraced, if anyone could have had it open correctly it would have been him. *shrug*

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[marcin 0]

I think cobalt is not best opening when packed traditionally. As PZ said, no pushing of nose in, no excessive rolling of tail (barely none), slider not even quartered and you will love it if you resist the temptation to even touch the risers and sit still in the harness. I was shown this techniques from a Cobalt guy (I jump Atair Impulse - same opening) and it really worked. The faster I went the softer the opening was.
M.

[f1freak 0]

I love my cobalt 120, i have never had anything other that beautiful openings with mine...
I have packed it all different ways, even total trash packs and it has been so smooth and on heading everytime...

HAVE FUN...
...JUST DONT DIE

[faulknerwn 36]

Quote

I love my cobalt 120, i have never had anything other that beautiful openings with mine...
I have packed it all different ways, even total trash packs and it has been so smooth and on heading everytime...

Interesting - my Cobalt 85 consistently opened with closed end cells, but my 75 opens beautifully. 95% of the time it stays on heading and I've never had a hard opening on it. All I do is bury the nose, quarter the slider, and just barely roll the tail to keep it neat.

[f1freak 0]

I also try to pull while in a slight track....
Works for me...

HAVE FUN...
...JUST DONT DIE

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

As somebody with a LOT of jumps on four different Cobalts, I can truthfully say that I have never, ever been slammed by one. What is my secret packing method? Simple, I don't have one. I generally leave the nose straight, NEVER push it back, only make sure my stabilizers are pulled out (nothing on the inside), never "quarter" my slider, then just pull the tail around and wrap it three or four times. I then throw the thing on the ground, making sure my nose stays in the middle and the tail doesn't unroll. I put one bottom fold, then straddle it while lifting the rest of the canopy up to my chest, and then roll it down like a sleeping bag and jam it in the bag.

All that being said, that is exactly the same way I packed every one of my past seven mains (other than my VX when it was brand new and very slippery). I have had buddies call and bitch about not being able to tame their Cobalts and then have me jump them. The only time I ever saw one that wasn't just packing error, it was that it had gotten very much out of trim. This, unfortunately, may be a problem with some of the demos that have been jumped to death or stuck in ponds and dried in the sun. It is certainly not a "standard" Cobalt ailment in my experience.

Chuck

[zyzko 0]

What happened to me was the opposite - at first I could not get my 95 to open consistently, 180 degree turns, a few hard openings and general hassle.

Then I wathed my rigger-friend pack his VX, and I have been putting a little more attention to packing (sort the fabric nicely and symmetrically , leave the nose hanging without pushing it in, and just quartering the slider symetrically) and now it opens sweetly everytime. My last 15 or so jumps have been with a wingsuit, I have left the d-bag "pointing up" in the container, and I have not done the first "s-fold" when folding the canopy - I mean I'm not putting the grommets "in" the packjob, they are facing the floor when I pack, I just do one s-fold on top of the slider and warning label, and stuff the rest of the fabric between the first fold. Always nice and straight openings - even from full speed wing-flight without first arching for more than 1 or 2 seconds.

Touching the risers during opening will definitely give you a slammer.

-Kari

[rmcvey 0]

Ok. wendy said the openings changed when she changed sizes, so do you think wing loading has a factor?>

Im loading pretty lightly at 1.2

[zyzko 0]

Quote

Ok. wendy said the openings changed when she changed sizes, so do you think wing loading has a factor?>

Im loading pretty lightly at 1.2

Don't know about that - I'm loading at about 1.6, and my friends have jumped it on loadings from 1.5 to 2.2 and have had similiar results to mine.

-Kari

[TomAiello 25]

Where are the Cobalts made? Are they manufactured in Europe and shipped everywhere? Or are there multiple production facilities?

It seems like people are getting wildly varying results on different Cobalts. Is there perhaps a variability in the manufacturing process due to something like variable materials, different plants, or even just poor quality control?

I've noticed that the Troll (Atair's BASE canopy) has received widely varied reviews (mine opens like absolute shite, but flies like a dream)--no one can seem to agree on how it behaves. I am beginning to suspect that different Trolls may actually behave differently.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[PhreeZone 15]

Also remeber that openings are subjective and so is flying... One persons hard opening is normal for another. A snivel to one person is a streamer to another....

As far as I know... Atair makes everything in Eurpore and recieves shipments every so often with a bunch of them that they send out to the buyers.

I did find that the lighter I load the canopy the easier it was to get closed end cells. I jump mine at 1.25 and get them ever 10 jumps or so... (Not complaining at all thanks to the soft openings) but when I was jumping 15 pounds of lead I never had them at all. I also never had them on the 135's that I've jumped.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[cobaltdan 0]

all cobalts are manufactured in our european factory and are shiped through our ny office. (there are pictures posted on our web site)

imo our manufacturing technique and qc are the best in the industry. we go to many lengths other manufacturers do not ,quite simply to be perfectionists. (i have posted specifics of pur procedures in a previous post.)

anyway, tom: morpheus mentioned to me your perceptions of our troll, and btw your defination of "opens like shit" is my defination of perfection. common mixed reactions are because many people were simply taught on different equipment. times change, technology improves....

must run.

sincerely,

dan<><>

Daniel Preston <><>
atairaerodynamics.com (sport)
atairaerospace.com (military)

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

anyway, tom: morpheus mentioned to me your perceptions of our troll, and btw your defination of "opens like shit" is my defination of perfection. common mixed reactions are because many people were simply taught on different equipment. times change, technology improves.

What kind of delays are you taking? I really got into trouble on the low end (sub 5 slider, sub 2 no slider).

Anyway, I guess the Troll 2 makes that all kind of moot, at this point.

I look forward to trying the new canopy.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[imdskydiver 0]

My cobalt used to open in 2 stages and somehow i lost that part of it, After my cutaway i spent a lot of time making sure it was packed just right , I went to the Atair web site and followed the instructions to a tee. I have not had a 2 stage opening since.

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

Also remember that openings are subjective and so is flying... One persons hard opening is normal for another. A snivel to one person is a streamer to another.

That is true, but I am talking about comparing no-slider, sub two second delays, which are recorded on video.

Few jumpers will complain that openings are "too" fast at that altitude. Comparing one man's snivel to another's streamer, you would find that neither of them was acceptable.

Anyway, I've PM'd Dan, so hopefully I can prevent this discussion from side tracking a thread about Cobalts.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[AndyMan 7]

I managed to get one jump on a Cobalt. Granted that one jump is a very poor evaluation, I'll post my thoughts anyways.

I would categorise the opening by saying it was violently searching, alternating hard turns to the right and left. My initial impresion under canopy was simply, "I do NOT like this canopy...."

Because one jump is hardly grounds to judge a canopy, I am not even going to suggest that other people might have this experience. I will say that I did not find that one jump at all to be consistent with the ravings I've heard of the Cobalt opening.

I would have considered doing a second jump had I not fractured my ankle trying to land it.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[mwnuk 0]

I always had great openings when I had packed it myself and weird ones when I had given it to packers. When I checked them it appeared that bad openings resulted from wrong way of placing the bag and excess lines into the container (it's rather tight). So people remember, that the opening is the proces and it is not only the canopy, that influences it. Think about your leg stripes, line stows, excess lines, the pilot chute and then blame or not on the canopy.

[Kinaa 0]

I have a 9 jumps on Cobalt [email protected] and only bad thing that I had was end cell closure and slider half way down. And that was on the jumps when i did some flat flying - the speed wasn't high. On a bit higher deployment speed everything was ok. Last canopy that I had ( parafoil )was a neck breaker so I'm still getting used on nice openings (might be even to slow for my taste)
I don't do anything special with packing, just push the nose inside (not to far) and roll the tail for about 4-5 times.

Blue Ones
Igor

PS: If someone have the idea how to fast up the openings it would be god to know

[freefallin14 0]

After about 100 jumps on my 120, I am now getting somewhat consistant openings. The learning process was frustrating and sometimes painful. I now leave the nose wide open, and wrap the tail tightly and quite a bit. I think rolling the tail has the biggest effect on openings on my particular canopy. I have been absolutely slammed about 4 times on it. 2 by packers, 2 times self induced. I rolled the nose a couple times loosely and other than that did nothing out of the ordinary. These openings were seriously bad, I was positive I had broken lines and after the stars went away I was shocked to see none broken. It was instant canopy, nothing was 2 stage about them. And yes, I did read the manual, left hands off the rear risers, etc etc. The openings take some getting used to for those people who have never jumped one. They can tend to be all over the place at times, even with good body position and guiding it through openings. Thats why the learning process on it and getting used to it can take some time and many jumps. I have never had end cell closure or a slider hang up on me either. I was unsure about keeping the canopy after the first 30-50, but am very happy with it now.

Bret

[bhale 0]

I own two Cobalts, both 95 @ 2.2 loading, one H-mod, one Competition. I did have problems at first with very hard openings. Went to a smaller pilot chute, 22", and routed the rubber bands such that they are smaller, for the smaller lines, and the issues have worked themselves out. I do not stuff the nose, but do roll the tail tight. Good luck.