Landing patterns with two nearby LZs?

[fly67 0]

At my DZ there are two landing zones, one east-west and one north-south, for which it is possible that standard box patterns (say 900, 600, 300) executed by two different canopy pilots could cross, especially with long down wind legs overshooting too far.

In addition, in this potential overlapping downwind/base leg area, if a certain canopy enters the pattern without a downwind leg, it can be unclear if (s)he is heading towards one or the other LZs and will continue straight on by or turn on final.

A few questions...

- In the first case, pilots are flying the correct pattern for their individual LZ but could end up heading towards each other (or interfering with each other's pattern). Does it make sense to potentially lower the altitudes of the box pattern or at least the final approach turn (say 50 ft)? Any other suggestions here?

- In the second case, if I'm the guy coming in without a downwind leg (i.e. straight-in final or only base to final), should I opt for whichever area is closest/has the least "crossing"?

- What if I see someone who may be crossing my pattern but I can't tell what they are going to do? Slow down? Alter my pattern?

[Squeak 17]

Sounds like you are at Eloy, if so check the the crew there..
you have at hand some of the most experienced and professional skydivers on the planet USE them.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[ArizonaStone 0]

Hey! Your profile says your home DZ is Phoenix. Would I be correct in assuming you mean Skydive Arizona? If so, let me say the 2 LZs do have sufficient space for each side to complete their patterns...if everyone is paying attention.

The holding areas get dicey, but when you are at landing pattern altitudes most people have sufficient separation.

If you feel you are going to collide with someone, find a clear area and land there. Don't be too set on your approach if it endangers yourself or others.

If someone is flying unpredictably, stay away from them. If that messes up your approach, then so be it.

As far as picking the LZ with the least congestion. You can do that but be aware the E/W LZ is the preferred LZ for swoopers and if you are inexperienced you may be in a worse spot than if you opted for landing in the desert.

"Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see."

-Benjamin Franklin

[fly67 0]

Yeah Skydive AZ. I can ask experts for sure.

Lately with a bit more (and changing) wind, even experienced jumpers are sometimes landing off and I've seen people heading for the e/w area crossing near or over the n/s area and vice versa.

I guess it's situational regarding what's best.

I was wondering if tightening/lowering the pattern is advisable (or not advisable).

[Squeak 17]

Quote

I was wondering if tightening/lowering the pattern is advisable (or not advisable).

Seriously dude, ask the guys at Eloy, they are top notch people and they can WALK you through the landing areas and talk to you about them.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[fly67 0]

Just did a canopy course with Axis Flight School (Brianne and Niklas). Their content and approach was great, and not just focused on flying, but total awareness of what's going on, flying safely, being predictable, not just following the leader, creating vertical separation, giving yourself options.

According to their experience most skydivers (canopy pilots) don't learn a lot of basics, nor courtesy in the sky. Blind goal orientation, cutting people off, landing at the same time seems to be common.

They provided answers to my question and more...

Now if I could just delete this thread.

[Squeak 17]

Quote

Just did a canopy course with Axis Flight School (Brianne and Niklas). Their content and approach was great, and not just focused on flying, but total awareness of what's going on, flying safely, being predictable, not just following the leader, creating vertical separation, giving yourself options.

According to their experience most skydivers (canopy pilots) don't learn a lot of basics, nor courtesy in the sky. Blind goal orientation, cutting people off, landing at the same time seems to be common.

They provided answers to my question and more...

Now if I could just delete this thread.

Big Thumbs up dude Nice one.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[voilsb 1]

Quote

Now if I could just delete this thread.

I wish people would stop posting this.

Instead, why not post their suggested solutions, so that other newbies can learn from it. If it gets deleted, then the same thread will pop up again in a few months and we rehash everything all over again.

Brian

[hcsvader 1]

So what did you learn about traffic between to two landing areas?

Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

[fly67 0]

Good question.

Skydive AZ doesn't have hard rules for traffic that might need to cross to get to another landing area etc. So the main thing is diligence:

- Keep your head on a swivel
- Create vertical separation (more important than horizontal separation, lower canopy has right of way)
- Be courteous (yield, slow, speed up when needed)
- Be predictable (don't sashay, don't brake suddenly, don't cut people off)
- Be wary (assume someone might cut you off or not see you)
- Don't get fixated on a goal or target
- Don't just follow the leader (too closely or blindly)
- Know the landing pattern conventions and no fly zones
- Have options and be willing to land off/out
- Signal if needed (moving legs, yelling)

That's my recollection, may not be complete, but useful in any scenario.

[Remster 24]

Quote

Good question.

Skydive AZ doesn't have hard rules for traffic that might need to cross to get to another landing area etc. So the main thing is diligence:

- Keep your head on a swivel
- Create vertical separation (more important than horizontal separation, lower canopy has right of way)
- Be courteous (yield, slow, speed up when needed)
- Be predictable (don't sashay, don't brake suddenly, don't cut people off)
- Be wary (assume someone might cut you off or not see you)
- Don't get fixated on a goal or target
- Don't just follow the leader (too closely or blindly)
- Know the landing pattern conventions and no fly zones
- Have options and be willing to land off/out
- Signal if needed (moving legs, yelling)

That's my recollection, may not be complete, but useful in any scenario.

And do what most experienced folks who dont have a hard on for swooping the beer line do: stay our of "the corner" (not the "oh shit I turned too low" corner, but the area over Coop's packing area, ie, if you land going south on the alternate, set up your pattern to end up on the East side of the LZ, and if you land on the main, set up your pattern so you land on the North side of the LZ). Or, land out.

Remster

[fly67 0]

Quote

And do what most experienced folks who dont have a hard on for swooping the beer line do: stay our of "the corner" (not the "oh shit I turned too low" corner, but the area over Coop's packing area, ie, if you land going south on the alternate, set up your pattern to end up on the East side of the LZ, and if you land on the main, set up your pattern so you land on the North side of the LZ). Or, land out.

That's what I do, but people can still fly across those LZs or your pattern to get to whichever LZ they want (normally the main).

[Plover 0]

Once again the moderators here have chosen to delete a bunch of perfectly innocent messages. So now it's time for some payback once again. Tsk tsk. It's too bad they continue this program of self-induced punishment. It would be so easy if they just left those innocent messages alone, and public. But, when they fucka wit me, I fucka wit them. So here we go again.

[-Joey- 0]

Plover

Once again the moderators here have chosen to delete a bunch of perfectly innocent messages. So now it's time for some payback once again. Tsk tsk. It's too bad they continue this program of self-induced punishment. It would be so easy if they just left those innocent messages alone, and public. But, when they fucka wit me, I fucka wit them. So here we go again.

Lmfao... great justice bro

Skydiving is serious business