Intentional Cut-away rigs

[DJL 232]

I would like to get some intentional cut-aways under my belt and here's where my train of thought brought me: What I would like is a back-up belly system at my DZ so that when it came time for the repack I could practice an intentional cutaway and fly my reserve.

Is this something that a DZ could do? I think it would be a very good learning instrument. I do forsee the problems of having to chase down free-bags and mains...

-doug

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[PhreeZone 14]

Finding a maker of a rig is going to be the issue. I've asked a few places and they refuse to sell them to the public. And you only want to use the reserve as a reserve, pack it with 2 mains either of which can be chopped.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[billvon 2,384]

>What I would like is a back-up belly system at my DZ . . . .

Hard to do legally if you're not a master rigger.

First problem is that you need a single-harness, dual-canopy system to be legal under part 105, although this is now largely ignored. This is a throwback from where people were doing six sequential cutaways and getting themselves killed. Technically speaking, any more than two canopies is illegal.

Second problem is that any harness/container system needs to be TSOed. No modern harnesses that I know of are TSOed for use with an externally mounted reserve. You can stick seperable no.6 style rings on the main lift webbing of a regular harness, but this is NOT TSOed and not even guaranteed to carry the load. You would have to find a master rigger with a harness machine who was willing to help you do this.

Third problem is that you still need a TSOed reserve. This isn't as big a problem, as legacy belly-mount reserves are still legal to jump with, if you can get someone to repack it.

Some tricks to get around this:

1. Very old rigs have separate harnesses, reserves and mains - the main container detaches from the harness. With some care you could wear the old harness/reserve and wear your rig _over_ the harness.

2. You can get a chest-mount container to contain a main parachute connected to your primary harness rings. This works best with large (no.1) style rings and mini-risers on both the cutaway main and the regular main. This is 'more legal' since it does not affect the operation of the standard harness/container system.

3. I know of a few people who will build a three-canopy rig with two cutaway systems under their TSO. Expect to spend a lot of money.

[weid14 0]

there are some tertiary rigs around. they were doing intentionals a couple of weeks ago at DeLand....

[sunshine 2]

Quote

I do forsee the problems of having to chase down free-bags and mains...

On the intentinal cutaway rig i jumped, the reserve(second main) had a spring loaded pilot chute and bag that was attached to the canopy. The only thing i had to chase down was the chopped main.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Of course all this TSO stuff only applies in the US.
Other countries may or may not be a little more lax in achieving what you want....

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[PhreeZone 14]

I think Strong and Jumpshack will still make regular jumpers cutaway rigs if requested and I heard of a master rigger in FL that makes you do 5 or 6 chops on his cutaway rig before he will mod one to be a cutaway.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[riggerrob 558]

Make sure that your recovery crew are properly briefed for intentional cutaways. The last time we did an intentional cutaway, all the recovery crew landed at the regular target and started drinking beer. I was the only one who landed anywhere near the cutaway main or freebag. As sunset rapidly approached, I stumbled into more and more drainage ditches and got more and more angry. I eventually tripped over the freebag in tall grass and vowed to never get involved with that sort of cluster f**k ever again!

[Hooknswoop 19]

I have a cutaway rig w/ a second main canopy on the front. The system is simple. Deploy the chest mounted main canopy while on your back, either sub-terminal or terminal. Release the main, and you are in free fall w/ a normal main/reserve system on your back. I have 34-35 cutaways on this rig and have rented it out to others. USPA recommends 100 skydives before doing an intentional cutaway.

Hook

[cobaltdan 0]

bv covered it pretty well....

note: there are tso issues with most cutaway rigs and schemes. as such manufacturers will probably not lend out or rent their test rigs.

there are 3 basic types:

1:extra parachute mounted on chest cliping on via extra d rings. only chest rounds reserves are legal, although sandy reid makes one for squares which i recommend. (safety first regulation second)

2:vertically stacked mains. i.e. strong 'trident' rig. looks like a normal rig reserve then main then experimental below. both the main and experimental use mini links connected to the same harness d ring. i do not like this system as i have seen it malfunction. in fact on a video with ted strong jumping as the test jumper. the experimental wouldnt release and he fought it all the way down in a spin.

3: horizontally stacked mains. basically the main container bottom is another 4 flaps concealing the back up main. (see video on our web site of the 500# c 120 test jumps)

and also there is :

4: wear a harness under your rig connected to your exeperimental. bag your experimental out of the plane.

sincerely,

dan<><>

Daniel Preston <><>
atairaerodynamics.com (sport)
atairaerospace.com (military)

[pilotdave 0]

Quote

Technically speaking, any more than two canopies is illegal.

Why is that? the rule states:

...No person may conduct a parachute operation using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, unless that system has at least one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute, and one approved single person harness and container...

Dave

[billbooth 10]

Because of the complexity of the gear required, intentional cutaways are dangerous. As others have told you, they are also expensive. I have done dozens of intentional cutaways testing new gear, and I can tell you that they, because they are planned, DO NOT simulate an actual emergency. Therefore, I believe they have little or no value for most jumpers. I DO believe that suspended harness training (because you can do it over and over again cheaply and safely) is a good idea, and will give you the muscle memory necessary to preform very well in an actual emergency.

[freakous 0]

I agree DJL, we can do some simulation's on the cutaway harness the next weathered out day. Good train of thought on wanted to be prepared though. If you know your going to cutaway you will be mental prepared (should be anyways), but I don't see how the same forces would apply. For instances cutting away a perfectly good canopy vs a diving line twist. Your body is going to be in a completly different position.

[billvon 2,384]

>using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, unless that system
> has at least one main parachute . . .

That's open to interpretation, but at least one FAA FSDO person told me that the operant phrase is "single harness dual parachute system" - a single harness triple parachute system is not covered under the allowed systems. As usual, if you look hard enough you will find someone from the FAA who can be convinced otherwise, I'm sure.

[DJL 232]

Quote

Because of the complexity of the gear required, intentional cutaways are dangerous. ...DO NOT simulate an actual emergency. Therefore, I believe they have little or no value for most jumpers.

I think that's a pretty definitive answer. It would be nice to feel what it's like to chop in the relaxation of your own choosing but it sounds like the complexity, risk, and wear on your gear defeat the purpose.

Thanks a bunch folks.

-Doug

p.s. MEaton is an ass.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[psw097 0]

Why don't you just wrap Riverdog this weekend. Its going to happen sooner or later, you might as well make it sooner. If you are trying to make it economical, I'm more than willing to pack you a nasty. It'll only cost you 5 bucks. I'll even point to where you trash lands.

Webster

P.S. Yes, MEaton is certainly an ass.

[faulknerwn 36]

Quote

I have a cutaway rig w/ a second main canopy on the front. The system is simple. Deploy the chest mounted main canopy while on your back, either sub-terminal or terminal. Release the main, and you are in free fall w/ a normal main/reserve system on your back.
Hook

This is how I do all of my intentional cutaways as well. Two of my Racers are set up for extra d-rings on the front so I can hook another main to it. Have come up with all sorts of fun ideas with this setup..
W

[pchapman 261]

Up here in Canada getting gear for an intentional hasn't been hindered by regulations (or varying interpretations of them). At the couple DZ's that I've called home, the set up has always been very simple:

An old military belly mount is used, hooked to one's harness by separable D-rings, below one's handles. The lower corners of the belly mount are tied off to some other part of the harness to keep the container from swinging about.

(Separable D rings aren't common but do exist; eg they were used to replace a batch of bad D-rings in about 1982-1983 without restitching major parts of the harness.)

If the tersh had to be activated, the separable D-rings would ride up on one's harness, which might cause some minor damage. But nobody worries about that since it's only a last ditch thing if the reserve fails.

Anyone using this setup naturally needs to be trained on manual deployment procedures.

Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON