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NWFlyer

Dropzones That Check Wingloading?

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There's a comment in the "400 jumps velo 111" thread about why the jumper's current dropzone isn't checking. "Who looked at his log book, took his waiver, checked his repack, verified his wing loading and let him do this at their dz?"

It got me to thinking through the check-in process at the 25+ DZs I've visited. Of all those, I can recall exactly one, SDAZ, that asked for my wingloading. My understanding is that's used by Mr. Burke in his ongoing analysis of incidents (fatalities, injuries, and close calls), but to be honest, I don't know for sure if they use that information to tell someone "You can't jump that here." I've seen SDAZ ground people, but what I've observed is that it's after some repeated violation of the dropzone rules observed by a ground safety officer, not solely because they're jumping a canopy they can't handle (though of course that might lead to a rules violation).

At every other DZ I've visited, I have rarely even been asked about what I jump (main/reserve/container). My credentials are almost universally checked (license, membership, repack date), and currency is occasionally checked (though less often since I've had my D).

But wingloading? Almost never. Is it because I don't fit the stereotype of a HP canopy pilot, and since I'm walking in to get my gear checked holding my container that is clearly not holding a small HP canopy that the conversation doesn't ever need to come up? Or is it because there really aren't any dropzones that are checking?
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Ive been to about 50 DZs and i would guess that the majority have not asked what kind of gear i am jumping and maybe only a few have asked about my WL. I also find it pretty easy to find myself on a load without any kind of credential check such as license or reserve check.
The last boogie I went to did not as me about the type of gear I have, but did license and reserve check. There was a low time jumper there who had his rig grounded for having a very small reserve in it, but i think that may have been brought to their attention beforehand.
Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

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I've been checked for currency, license, USPA membership, and repack date but don't remember ever being asked about my wingloading. I've been asked my weight (for weight/balance) but not in conjunction w/ canopy size. I've been to 10-12 DZs, so not a huge sample.
"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

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in 10.5 years of jumping in different countries around the world NOT ONE Dz has asked for wingload info.
Only 2 have ever asked what canopy I fly (both at boogies and both in OZ).
The most I have had at any other DZ is a Repack card check, not even a look to see if the rig is airworthy.
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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I haven't done much visiting. I have been asked what size my canopy is, and I assume they looked at me and thought that was about right. One I misspoke and said 130 instead of 230 (my mind was elsewhere). All the check in girl did was ask if anyone at my DZ cared and then yelled across the hanger how stupid my DZ was. Once I corrected my number, she said, "oh, that is not bad." [Granted, there is not the best blood between these two DZs] And once an instructor looked at my rig and said with a smile, "Nice tandem rig."
POPS #10623; SOS #1672

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AdamUSN

1337 is that supposed to say Leet, as in Elite, in some kind of cryptic AOL talk?



Yea, his real jump numbers are somewhere under 50. The 1337 jumps listed make his small person complex feel better (1.1 WL on a 150) and gives him hope that an inexperienced jumper will listen to him.

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I think a lot of DZs do it subconsciously. They look at the rig youve declared then look at you. Even if youre a heavier guy jumping a 150ish it probably wont raise any eyebrows. Im not sure how I feel about having to step on scale when I check in at a new DZ or after winter break at my home DZ when I might have put on 20 pounds.

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Everyone at my DZ gets a briefing out in the landing area, covering all aspects of our operation, airport operations and what rules they need to follow in the plane, jump run, freefall and canopy flight and landing. The waiver has a check off box for gear, license and LZ briefing.

We always ask the jumpers we don't know what size canopy they fly.

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demoknite

I think a lot of DZs do it subconsciously. They look at the rig youve declared then look at you. Even if youre a heavier guy jumping a 150ish it probably wont raise any eyebrows. Im not sure how I feel about having to step on scale when I check in at a new DZ or after winter break at my home DZ when I might have put on 20 pounds.

feel good about the scales it means that someone cares enough to make sure that thr plane isn't overloaded and perhaps what you WL might be
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Squeak

in 10.5 years of jumping in different countries around the world NOT ONE Dz has asked for wingload info.
Only 2 have ever asked what canopy I fly (both at boogies and both in OZ).
The most I have had at any other DZ is a Repack card check, not even a look to see if the rig is airworthy.



At J.Bay they inspected my gear, didn't they check yours? I know that at York it is generally pretty rigorous and that Andy will go over visitors gear.

As to the questions about wingloading etc, I think that it might be based on reputation and license. It is such a small world over here people like you are pretty much known and accepted or banned as appropriate:P

The US is such a mess in terms of coherent enforcement and the general attitude towards any form of rules, that I'm not surprised nobody asks or checks.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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The US is such a mess in terms of coherent enforcement and the general attitude towards any form of rules, that I'm not surprised nobody asks or checks.



Australia and most of Europe are the Nanny States. This happens where governments allow parachute associations to be regulatory agencies. Just say no to Nanny States. So far both USPA and CSPA have no regulatory functions. You don't need to belong or follow their rules to open a DZ.

You can keep your coherent enforcement. The only people who benefit are bureaucrats who get jobs paid for by exorbitant membership fees that are mandatory in those countries. And costs that keep skydiving pretty much an upper middle class activity.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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gowlerk

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The US is such a mess in terms of coherent enforcement and the general attitude towards any form of rules, that I'm not surprised nobody asks or checks.



Australia and most of Europe are the Nanny States. This happens where governments allow parachute associations to be regulatory agencies. Just say no to Nanny States. So far both USPA and CSPA have no regulatory functions. You don't need to belong or follow their rules to open a DZ.

You can keep your coherent enforcement. The only people who benefit are bureaucrats who get jobs paid for by exorbitant membership fees that are mandatory in those countries. And costs that keep skydiving pretty much an upper middle class activity.

LOL :ph34r::o:ph34r::|you obviously don't know many aussie jumpers not that many are "upper middle class" :ph34r:
Our yearly membership for me was $170 this year (4 jump tickets) not to "exorbitant" in my world
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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LOL SlyShockedSlyUnimpressedyou obviously don't know many aussie jumpers not that many are "upper middle class" Sly
Our yearly membership for me was $170 this year (4 jump tickets) not to "exorbitant" in my world




Ok, but still twice as much as the $85 CDN that I give to CSPA. ( includes 1 million 3rd party liability insurance) Glad to hear that plain blokes can afford to jump down under! But I would note that your$170 AUD would buy you about 5 jump tickets in Canada and 7 in the USA.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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nigel99

***

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coherent enforcement



Enforcement of what?



Pretty much any rules, be it cloud clearance, gopros or sensible canopy choices.

There are no "rules" on GoPro's or canopy choice.

That's why I asked. You call for coherent enforcement when there are no rule to enforce.
Remster

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Remster

******

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coherent enforcement



Enforcement of what?


Pretty much any rules, be it cloud clearance, gopros or sensible canopy choices.

There are no "rules" on GoPro's or canopy choice.

That's why I asked. You call for coherent enforcement when there are no rule to enforce.

I tend to agree with Remster on the lack of rules issue. What are DZO's suppose to enforce?

However, as I travel from DZ to DZ (US), I've always been drilled about canopy size/experience/currency/etc. when first arriving at a drop zone. It doesn't seem to take them long to figure out just how totally incompetent I really am??? :)
Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

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However, as I travel from DZ to DZ (US), I've always been drilled about canopy size/experience/currency/etc. when first arriving at a drop zone.

I wouldn't call it grilling -- I have to put on my waiver my gear (sometimes), and my D license number, and sometimes I have to show my logbook. No one has ever questioned me on gear choice.

But that may also be because I'm obviously female, and not particularly young, therefore perceived to be unlikely to be swooping. When checked, my gear doesn't look particularly small, and wouldn't set off any alarms.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Ill repeat that as i said in the other thread, we check canopy/wingloading (not so much specific wingloading but will make a guess) and turned away a reasonably un-current jumper with 700ish jumps recently who wanted to jump his velocity.

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gowlerk


But I would note that your$170 AUD would buy you about 5 jump tickets in Canada and 7 in the USA.



So what?
Our standard of living here is different to either Canada or the USofA, that has ZERO to do with our sports governing body. Fuel alone here is more than 2x that of the USofA.
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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