GoPros right off of student status?

[billvon 2,380]

>What do you think the chest strap is there for?

To hold the chestmount camera of course.

[-Joey- 0]

Lmao... that guy was an idiot to the highest order, with or without camera
The reason I plan to start jumping with a camera is because it will be helpful as a learning tool. I'll be able to review my previous jumps and look more closely at my technique in slow motion to determine things I need to work on, as well as things that are going well. It isn't realistic to expect someone to pay a professional camera person every jump or pay for a coach jump every jump.

Back when I first started jumping, my instructors recorded all my AFF's and we watched the videos afterward to discuss what was going well and what wasn't - this was incredibly helpful.

Skydiving is serious business

[linebckr83 3]

Camera is a great learning tool yes...but someone has to be videoing you in order to see yourself. You can't mount a camera on your body that will allow you to review your own technique. Where would you put that?

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[billvon 2,380]

>The reason I plan to start jumping with a camera is because it will be helpful as a learning tool.

Cameras are great learning tools when someone ELSE films you. They are almost useless for video review of the jumper doing video.

>Back when I first started jumping, my instructors recorded all my AFF's and we
>watched the videos afterward to discuss what was going well and what wasn't - this
>was incredibly helpful.

Indeed; that's a great model to follow. Find a coach who can coach you, film you and debrief you afterwards. You will learn a lot.

[-Joey- 0]

You're just thinking freefall technique. I'm thinking canopy control and landing technique. The AFF example was to illustrate a point.

Skydiving is serious business

[billvon 2,380]

>You're just thinking freefall technique. I'm thinking canopy control and landing technique.

Same thing. Get someone to film your landings; you will learn a lot.

[BigMikeH77 0]

>that guy was an idiot to the highest order, with or without camera .

I'll remember that line for later...

>The reason I plan to start jumping with a camera is because it will be helpful as a learning tool.

You are interested in learning from your own experiences, but not the experiences of others who have been injured and killed? Someone taught you a ground class did they not? Someone taught you EP's, and how to exit, yes? Someone taught you about landing patterns... You listened then - so what happened that made you want to stop learning from others and rely on your own mad skillz?

>I'll be able to review my previous jumps and look more closely at my technique in slow motion

How will you be able to see that your legs arent symmetrical, or that any one of a number of other things about your body position is off? (Hint.. You won't - First person POV isn't very effective IMO as a training tool for younger jumpers)

>Back when I first started jumping, my instructors recorded all my AFF's and we watched the videos afterward to discuss what was going well and what wasn't - this was incredibly helpful

My point exactly. See above.

>It isn't realistic to expect someone to pay a professional camera person every jump or pay for a coach jump every jump.

You get what you pay for. You want a training tool that doubles as a cool video to show off? Pay a little bit more, make friends with the videographers, and then - when you are more seasoned and have matured a bit - maybe... JUST MAYBE... one of them might help you to jump a camera safely and responsibly.

I"m done trying to get through to you. Good luck with your life, I hope you don't get anyone hurt or killed.

[uberchris 0]

so im not taking anyones sides here, i dont really care about whether or not people jump cameras......... personally i was using a camera strictly to figure out how much hangtime i was getting from exit to pull in my tracks and WS jumps, and really nothing more. yes i have a cutaway on my helmet. i dont jump my gopro because first off, i suck at wingsuiting and secondly because the footage i get blows and is nothing special. therefore i choose to rarely jump with a gopro because its just an extra snag hazard during deployment and my videos are awful.

=)

i dont understand with newer jumpers, why cameras are such a "distraction".....

for me, i put the gopro on my helmet while im sitting waiting for the plane, i turn the power on and forget the camera is there. then, during the ride to altitude, i gear up, do my check check triple check on all my gear and handles, push the "record" button, and put my helmet on. then i get ready and i exit. for me personally, its only one extra step in the entire gearing up process and thats simply when i hit record.............otherwise its like the camera doesnt exist........ i suppose the target fixation during freefall is definitely where these idiots lose awareness and make big mistakes, that i am definitely NOT arguing.

so i have to wonder where all these clowns who forget to route chest straps, who forget goggles, etc. etc., fuck up in their gear checks and make mistakes directly because of their cameras.............isnt that just darwinism/idiocy?

anyways i suppose i just cant get a grip on people who forget such major shit like chest straps and stuff.....

edit: we all know i have shit for experience, im not arguing with anyone just trying to figure out the difference between complete stupidity and distraction BEFORE the exit

cheers

gravity brings me down.........

[Ron 7]

Quote

The reason I plan to start jumping with a camera is because it will be helpful as a learning tool. I'll be able to review my previous jumps and look more closely at my technique in slow motion to determine things I need to work on, as well as things that are going well.

If you really think this is going to help... You are less experienced than we thought earlier.

Camera can be a great tool.... But not when the subject wears it.

Between this and the "buying skydives" comment.... I think this guy is not even off student status yet.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Ron

If you really think this is going to help... You are less experienced than we thought earlier.

Bingo!! I think we have a winner.

And speaking of Bingo, Joey, I'm updating the cards in your honor. I was looking for a replacement for the old "Sanji" square.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[-Joey- 0]

billvon

>You're just thinking freefall technique. I'm thinking canopy control and landing technique.

Same thing. Get someone to film your landings; you will learn a lot.

That's not bad advice, but it's unrealistic for every jump.

Skydiving is serious business

[-Joey- 0]

skyjumpenfool

And speaking of Bingo, Joey, I'm updating the cards in your honor. I was looking for a replacement for the old "Sanji" square.

Sweet! What's the date on that?

Skydiving is serious business

[DSE 3]

-Joey-

That's not bad advice, but it's unrealistic for every jump.

No more unrealistic than believing you can gain from POV footage with no outside reference.

[SivaGanesha 2]

bennibluesky

And to be honest, with 50 jumps you're not experienced in any way. You just learned to survive a normal skydive on your own.

Presumably someone is capable of surviving a normal skydive on their own after completing AFF--ie 8 jumps or so. If they aren't capable of doing so, one would wonder why their AFF instructors cleared them to do a solo skydive.

So presumably at least some more learning takes place between 8 and 50 jumps. Whether that learning is enough to allow them to safely jump w/camera, I am not qualified to judge.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[SivaGanesha 2]

billvon

Nor do I. I do believe in requiring people to have enough experience to make an informed decision as to what risks to take. At 50 jumps, they don't

At what point--in your opinion--does a jumper have the ability to make an informed decision?

Note that this ISN'T the same thing as asking when they can safely take on specific risks. Everyone has their limits. But at a certain point presumably you would trust someone to make their own decisions as to what those limits are, to seek out whatever advice they need, and to basically manage their risk--as opposed to just being told what to do. When is that point reached?

Note that if that point isn't always reached by 50 jumps, it is presumably reached not long thereafter. The USPA allows jumpers to acquire a coach rating with just a B license and 100 jumps. If the USPA is allowing someone to serve as a mentor to younger jumpers--even in a limited context--presumably that means that they are, at the very least, capable of looking after themselves and making their own decisions about things like cameras.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[DSE 3]

SivaGanesha

Note that if that point isn't always reached by 50 jumps, it is presumably reached not long thereafter. The USPA allows jumpers to acquire a coach rating with just a B license and 100 jumps. If the USPA is allowing someone to serve as a mentor to younger jumpers--even in a limited context--presumably that means that they are, at the very least, capable of looking after themselves and making their own decisions about things like cameras.

FWIW, I do believe that many people with proper instruction and demonstration of skill, should be capable of managing a camera at 100 skydives. This runs counter to USPA philosophy, but I do believe it's possible.

Where it's not likely possible, and probably unreasonable, is to expect the person that is foolish enough to start sit-flying on jump 26, will be able/capable of any sort of flying skill by 100 jumps that could accommodate flying a camera or adding a cutaway sequence to his EP's.

[Austintxflight 0]

What worries me is that we are fighting the last battle. Looking into the future of cameras its going to be even harder and harder to keep them away.


Look at things like this. How could you tell if some 30 jump wonder's glasses are cameras or not. Even more so they put them under a full face and completely remove the snag hazard argument.

http://www.toolking.com/pov-action-video-cameras-acg25-hd-action-camera-eyewear?CAWELAID=1927218930&catargetid=1925286020&cagpspn=pla&gclid=COzJ25La0LcCFVRk7AoduwgAmA

Camera's like this are currently cheap and the quality is not good, but in a couple years these things could be everywhere. We need to start thinking about how to spot them, how to properly explain the risks of distractions etc, when snag hazards and be eliminated.(Personally I'd love to have a camera as glasses inside my full face)

I did buy a cheap pair of these for about 60 bucks to check out the quality. I took them to the wind tunnel to see how they worked. Its still not nearly there in quality, but I'd expect to see more and more of these on DZs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5jI4mAZa0c

[-Joey- 0]

Austintxflight

How could you tell if some 30 jump wonder's glasses are cameras or not.

Maybe you should just worry about minding your own fucking business and stop trying to be the dictator of others. What a novel idea!

Skydiving is serious business

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

I don't believe in restriction,

Must suck to be you and have to have these things to rant about every day....

- driver's license
- dress codes
- boating license
- fishing license
- international laws
- federal laws
- state laws
- county ordinances
- city ordinances
- HMAs
- Wife
- and so on.

How do you sleep at night?
Must be sleeping pills or something.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

I can only hope that the people at your DZ are reading this and have a Safety Meeting with you...before the DZO shows you the door. You are in dire need of one, son.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[wmw999 2,116]

So, um, a question -- are you good enough to text while you drive, too?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,380]

>At what point--in your opinion--does a jumper have the ability to make an informed decision?

Depends on what they are trying to do and how they do it.

If, for example, they are taking a canopy training course from someone they respect - and that person tells them in detail how THEY screwed up at 800 jumps and broke their pelvis and femur - they are likely to be better able to make an informed decision. If not, they basically learn by osmosis; someone in the sport for a year at a busy DZ, for example, is likely to see someone life-flighted out as a result of a bad decision under a small canopy. At that point they likely have a better gut-level understanding of the risks they are taking by downsizing rapidly.

Cameras are somewhat insidious because it SEEMS like you should just be able to turn it on and forget it. Most people can't. I couldn't do it at 2000 jumps, and got called on it. That may just be me, but I have a feeling that most people are not ten times better than I am in terms of what sort of distractions they can handle. (Given at that point I was teaching AFF.)

Thus with cameras you have to be in the sport long enough to see problems due to inattention. 200 jumps (about a year for an enthusiastic but poor jumper) is a reasonable number. For someone who is at the DZ every day but jumps less it's probably fewer jumps. The key there is being in the sport long enough to see what can happen due to inattention or carelessness. For some people (good example - Joey here) they just don't have a good idea of what a moment's inattention can do. Not because they are stupid but just because they have never seen it and it's not real to them.

As mentioned above, training and testing (i.e. more intentional exposure to those risks) can reduce the time it takes to learn this stuff.

[Amazon 7]

Ron

Quote

What almost killed him was thinking it was necessary

Ah, so now you are an expert on gear as well? People have fallen out of their gear due to not having the chest strap in place. I guess gear manufactures are just wasting time putting them on gear then?

BTW, still waiting for you to provide your data:
"How many US DZ's allow a GoPro at 50 jumps vs how many make you wait till 100 or 200?"

You claim to like data.... But you have not brought any.

I do believe that I heard Jessie say just that at his DZ during safety day a couple years ago when this issue was first starting to get a lot of yacking going on about it..

Anyone else from Kapow know for sure... I don't get down that way too much... I get all antsy and want to make a jump...which now is a BAD thing for someone old and decrepit with severe health issues like me whose right shoulder now dislocates if you breath on it hard At least I am not stupid enough to go out and willfully endanger others

[Amazon 7]

linebckr83

Camera is a great learning tool yes...but someone has to be videoing you in order to see yourself. You can't mount a camera on your body that will allow you to review your own technique. Where would you put that?

Thought I would highlight that...

Now on the other hand if he needs footage showing his huge pseudo badassery for his youtube channel... well lets just tell the truth shall we??http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sSExuyL_X8

[skyjumpenfool 2]

-Joey-

Maybe you should just worry about minding your own fucking business and stop trying to be the dictator of others. What a novel idea!

When cry baby, winning, know it alls start to listen to experienced, knowlegable, professionals and stop endangering the lives of others, that can happen. Until then, keep typing that crap. We'll still be here to throw it in your face if you survive the carnage. BTDT way to many times.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."