GoPros right off of student status?

[dthames 0]

I like this fellow. At least he seeks advice at the DZ from many sources.

(camera joke)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OfBirDnUJc

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[billvon 2,379]

>Incorrect. I know of two fatalities directly caused by the camera.

Now don't be getting all fact-y on him. Messing with someone's preconceptions can make them think - and you know where that leads.

[gowlerk 1,901]

Quote

50 jumps is sufficient for a small-format camera (just like Canada and many US DZ's)

You won't be jumping any camera in my part of Canada with 50 under your belt. I don't know who told you that.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[fpritchett64 0]

-Joey-

Nah nah... 2 people predicted my death, just because I agree that 50 jumps is sufficient for a small-format camera (just like Canada and many US DZ's) even though no fatality has ever been caused by a camera.

If you're going to predict someone's death just because they disagree with you, then naturally when the date passes, they should get a public apology. I'll be waiting :)

I'm sure there have been others but this one is the first to come to mind to disprove your statement that there has never been a fatality due to a camera.

I dare you to try to come up with any other reason than the camera causing this fatality.

P.S. John Foster was a very experienced jumper

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=29989;search_string=John%20foster;#29989

[airtwardo 6]

-Joey-

What do I get if I survive past all the bounce bingo dates? I should get some kind of prize and apology, that's only fair.

Ummm Okay...sorry you lived...here's a cookie.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[-Joey- 0]

When the most recent of such incidents you can find is from 2001, that says a lot in support of my position.

Skydiving is serious business

[DSE 3]

The most recent incident fatality was less than a year ago. Someone else posted it upthread. It's also in the list of incidents you conveniently choose to ignore, Ted.

[-Joey- 0]

I meant the most recent fatality.
Sure if you count the most recent chest-strap "incident" that's another story...

Btw how did you know my real name is Ted?

Skydiving is serious business

[popsjumper 2]

-Joey-

When the most recent of such incidents you can find is from 2001, that says a lot in support of my position.

Problem is that your 'position' is waaaaaaaay out there in left field.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

-Joey-

I meant the most recent fatality.
Sure if you count the most recent chest-strap "incident" that's another story...

Btw how did you know my real name is Ted?

Skydiving grapevine operates in the petabyte range.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[fpritchett64 0]

-Joey-

When the most recent of such incidents you can find is from 2001, that says a lot in support of my position.

No no, not the most recent I could find. Just one I personally remember. Don't discount this incident just because its a few years old.

Eta: don't forget a few posts up thread you said there had never been a fatality caused by camera. This just says a lot in what everyone else is saying about you not knowing what you don't know.

[cbjetboy 0]

I recently earned my C license and made my 200th jump. I patiently waited until then to seek advice about jumping a camera and then a few jumps later made my first camera jump with a trusted coach so I could ease into a new piece of equipment to get familiar and comfortable. I have jumped with others who jumped a camera quite a bit earlier than the recommended numbers. I personally waited because I had an instructor explain that the recommendations are there based on huge amounts of data and that data supports the recommendations. I realize some guys are uber current (I am one of those) and may have a high degree of awareness and capabilities but I think we should follow the recommendations as they are hard earned by many incidents and fatalities backing up those recommendations. I also can wipe my own ass and I am a big boy but part of being a big boy is being patient and mature when gaining experience. I know there are some that will bash this point of view but it is mine and I thought I would share it for what it is worth. Blue skies everyone!

Chad B Hall
Woo hoo!
My goal is to make every jump a fun and safe one. Blue skies!
Some of my videos...

[gowlerk 1,901]

Quote

Btw how did you know my real name is Ted?

I don't know how your name became known. I do know that skydiving is a small world. You didn't really think you could carry on here in the manner that you have and remain anonymous did you?

Although this is an electronic forum it's not like the gamer culture you come from. It's real people who really skydive and really know what they are talking about. Your identity will become known and people at DZs will be watching for you. So you better be able to walk the walk like you talk the talk.

I guess it doesn't really matter what your name is. You are here and trying to be controversial which I also like to do. Like you I sometimes find hypocrisy in some people's over reliance on arbitrary jump numbers. But I can't take you too seriously when you don't fill in your profile accurately and don't use your name.

If you can't stand behind your opinions publicly they don't matter much. This is the real world. Stand up for yourself like a man. Don't hide like a boy trying to play in a grown ups world.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[skinnay 0]

Got awfully quiet

[Ron 7]

Still waiting on you to provide a list of DZ's that allow you to jump a camera with 50 jumps.

You keep crying about people not bringing data..... Time for you to provide some of your own.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[devildog 0]

skinnay

Got awfully quiet

Because his anonymous cover was blown. Told you guys he was a troll :)

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[popsjumper 2]

devildog

***Got awfully quiet

Because his anonymous cover was blown. Told you guys he was a troll :)
Nah, not Ted. He's moved on to other forums. Believe it or not, he actually posted something useful to a young jumper.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Hellis 0]

Now you are trolling!

[mike_brown 0]

What shocks me the most, is that an inexperienced jumper is so belligerent with those that have a very rich knowledge of the sport.

I'm very new to the sport, only 67 jumps, and love continuing to learn from those that are far more knowledgable than me. Is this common, or his he a fluke?

[popsjumper 2]

Well, it's common for young jumpers to think they know more than they do. You may hear of the "100-jump Wonder".

Joey's vitriol is a lot worse than most but similar, less vitriolic attitudes are not uncommon.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[winsor 185]

-Joey-

Who cares, there's no hard and fast USPA rule about cameras, only recommendations. My DZ only requires a B License to jump a camera so yes it is not uncommon to wear one of the 50th jump if you get your B by jump 50. This safety nazi crap on this forum is getting ridiculous.

Also, learn to use the search feature. This dead horse has been beaten a million times.

Maybe the sport, and human nature, has changed significantly since I was a neophyte, though I doubt it. The reality is that the distraction provided by having a camera on hand is the killer.

I have lost too many friends who got preoccupied with things other than saving their life at the wrong time, and cameras have been the problem all too often. Sure, swooping makes other parts of the sport look safe by comparison, but playing Russian Roulette with a revolver, rather than an automatic, is not a fundamentally safe activity.

Any professional cameraman (for news orgs, etc.) can tell you that, while the camera is running, their world exists through the viewfinder. Regardless of what is happening, one's perspective is geared toward getting the shot. Thus, you have footage of people being maimed or killed, well framed and in proper focus, when the cameraman did not stop to render aid.

Similarly, I have watched footage showing the last things viewed by the person shooting camera, where they might have flared or whatever if they had not been preoccupied by getting the shot.

Having made rather a few camera jumps over the years, ranging from 35mm and Super 8 to GoPro, I can attest to how much discipline is necessary to ignore the camera when things get dicey, and thus have footage of a couple of pretty hairy cutaways.

Be advised that the dangers attendant upon increased complexity are not limited to cameras. Jumping flags, wingsuits, skyboards (remember them?) and the like increase the likelihood of an "interesting" outcome exponentially.

As far as being a safety nazi goes, I would not dream of telling what to do. Hell, I'd be honored to be on your ash dive.


BSBD,

Winsor

[DexterBase 0]

-Joey-

What do I get if I survive past all the bounce bingo dates? I should get some kind of prize and apology, that's only fair.

You'll be dead soon regardless of whether you survive the bingo dates.

You're probably above average in terms of experience in other activities which give you a natural tendency to do well at skydiving. I'll give you that. That, unfortunately, combined with your attitude equals you dead sooner than later.

You'll get lucky a lot in relatively benign situations that don't matter much, and you'll mistake that luck for skill.

You'll make leaps ahead without really adding much to your skill bucket.

Soon your fear will wear off and one day, when you least expect it, you'll dig yourself into a hole (literally or figuratively) that you were too cool to bother learning the skills to get yourself out. Luck bucket empty.

I think you're probably not solely out to impress others, which is good because your skills and attitude aren't going to impress anyone. You have your own ideas of why you need video... I don't really care what they are.

Just know this: when you do die, you will not be the first person who "knew more" than the more experienced jumpers trying to warn them.

The irony is the people who are trying to warn you are doing so because they care.

Maybe someday when you roll your buddy over and feel his bones grind together and then look into his lifeless eyes.... you'll develop some respect for the finality this sport is capable of delivering.

My guess is it's one of your buddies rolling you over.

Harsh post? Definitely. But the ground will hurt more.