GoPros right off of student status?

[Tetrahedron 13]

I recently questioned a visiting jumper on the ride to altitude, wearing a GoPro and he admitted he was on his 50th jump.

Another guy just posted a video of his first cutaway on his 131st jump, in the Incidents forum. I'm sure it's easier to get away with it at larger drop zones. Who knows how long he's been jumping a camera.

We really need to keep our eyes open for these "kids" that have no concept of the danger involved with jumping cameras with such little experience.

Or should that safety recommendation/dz rule be on a case by case basis?

What do you think?

[-Joey- 0]

Who cares, there's no hard and fast USPA rule about cameras, only recommendations. My DZ only requires a B License to jump a camera so yes it is not uncommon to wear one of the 50th jump if you get your B by jump 50. This safety nazi crap on this forum is getting ridiculous.

Also, learn to use the search feature. This dead horse has been beaten a million times.

Skydiving is serious business

[Tetrahedron 13]

Well, that's the real problem. Calling safety recommendations "nazi crap" just shows people have to regard for rules and the injuries/fatalities will continue.

I guess it's a good way to weed out the ones without Mad Skillz.

[-Joey- 0]

Right. All the injuries and fatalities that happen every day due to cameras. And here I was browsing the fatalities database thinking about how many were due to low cutaways and low hook turns. Nope, turns out I was wrong, these were all secretly due to cameras and DZ is covering it up in the database. If only they didn't those extra 2 ounces of weight on their helmets their wing loadings would have been 0.001% lighter and maybe would have planed out sooner...

Skydiving is serious business

[mistercwood 287]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3894693;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

APF does have hard and fast rules, here it's cert C, 100 jumps minimum. I got a great example of why that still may not be sufficient to be safe shortly after doing my first jump. Instructor loads up a video from maybe a month earlier, a sunset load where the first-time camera guy is on his magical 100th jump. Around breakoff he flips onto his back to get a great shot of everyone else deploying. Real cool, right? Except he's so focussed on getting the great shot first time out, he just keeps on tracking along on his back. And on. And on. No alti checks. He eventually either gets bored or snaps out of it, and rolls over just in time to finally deploy. Right about a grand, maybe a little less. And a few seconds later, his camera gets smacked by the reserve that's just inflated thanks to his AAD. Luckily it's just a side by side, so a short time and a plf later he's on the ground.

My instructors words were, "We don't expect him to be around for very long". When I get to a hundred jumps and am allowed to jump a camera, I'd love to go straight for it. But if my instructors and more experienced jumpers around me say to hold back, that's what I'll do. That doesn't make them safety nazis, it makes them concerned about keeping me alive and in one piece. Why would you want to shit on that?

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[-Joey- 0]

Other people shouldn't have to suffer because of that guy's decision not to care about his altitude. So a few can't handle the thrill of the camera. Doesn't mean they represent everybody.

Skydiving is serious business

[mik 2]

-Joey-

Who cares, there's no hard and fast USPA rule about cameras, only recommendations. My DZ only requires a B License to jump a camera so yes it is not uncommon to wear one of the 50th jump if you get your B by jump 50. This safety nazi crap on this forum is getting ridiculous.

Also, learn to use the search feature. This dead horse has been beaten a million times.

This is a great post by a kid who does not know enough to recognise
danger and lies in his profile about jump numbers. Newbies take note... not everyone who claims to have more than 1000 jumps on here knows the difference between his arse and his elbow, as the Brits say. Kid... why not come back in a few years when you have a few jumps and then grace us with your opinion. For newbies.. check out dse's post on gopro incidents.

***********************************************
I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

[-Joey- 0]

Prove that you have the 1600 jumps you claim in your profile. I want to see a photo of your log book right now.

Skydiving is serious business

[airtwardo 6]

-Joey-

Prove that you have the 1600 jumps you claim in your profile. I want to see a photo of your log book right now.

Sorry kid...by the way you say the things you say, you're only fooling yourself.

You're constant banter about the safety nazis kinda tells where you are really coming from. Give it a rest and go make some jumps

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[-Joey- 0]

Eh... I would but the weather is piss poor right now. So all I can do at the moment to contribute to the skydiving community is post sensible responses to the endless array of threads moaning about the evils of camera flying and downsizing

Skydiving is serious business

[mistercwood 287]

-Joey-

Other people shouldn't have to suffer because of that guy's decision not to care about his altitude. So a few can't handle the thrill of the camera. Doesn't mean they represent everybody.

Not jumping with a camera is a kind of suffering, now? Did you read the other stickied thread I posted? I also like how you flipped his loss of altitude awareness to being a "decision". He didn't decide shit, he got distracted by the camera and ended up a handful of seconds away from bouncing. Here's the video, if you'd like to see a fellow skygod in action.

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[airtwardo 6]

-Joey-

Eh... I would but the weather is piss poor right now. So all I can do at the moment to contribute to the skydiving community is post sensible responses to the endless array of threads moaning about the evils of camera flying and downsizing

Yeah

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[-Joey- 0]

He made a decision to backfly without a dytter didn't he? What he did doesn't relate to someone who is doing RW with a camera for example, it's not like everyone in the group is gonna forget to track away because one guy has a camera. It's more situational than jump numbers alone, as with everything else...

Skydiving is serious business

[-Joey- 0]

airtwardo

***Eh... I would but the weather is piss poor right now. So all I can do at the moment to contribute to the skydiving community is post sensible responses to the endless array of threads moaning about the evils of camera flying and downsizing

Yeah
Glad you see it my way

Skydiving is serious business

[mistercwood 287]

-Joey-

He made a decision to backfly without a dytter didn't he? What he did doesn't relate to someone who is doing RW with a camera for example, it's not like everyone in the group is gonna forget to track away because one guy has a camera. It's more situational than jump numbers alone, as with everything else...

He broke APF rules by doing so, as it happens.

You're right, they're not going to forget to break off. The camera guy, on the other hand, might forget to pull because he's too busy filming everyone's deployment sequence. You're also right that jump numbers alone aren't the only factor - you may be woefully unprepared to do something new even though you've got the numbers part down. Even when you've got a "leet" number of jumps...

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

When I get to a hundred jumps and am allowed to jump a camera, I'd love to go straight for it. But if my instructors and more experienced jumpers around me say to hold back, that's what I'll do. That doesn't make them safety nazis, it makes them concerned about keeping me alive and in one piece. Why would you want to shit on that?

You don't know how impressive this attitude is. And you are absolutely right about the concern. If you could bottle it, I'd buy gallons to feed to new jumpers.

Apparently, the troll has little to no concern for his fellow man and that's sad....and a danger to others.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

-Joey-

Eh... I would but the weather is piss poor right now. So all I can do at the moment to contribute to the skydiving community is post sensible responses to the endless array of threads moaning about the evils of camera flying and downsizing

If anyone ever notes a sensible post by -Joey-, please let me know. It should be interesting.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[DvK 2]

***He made a decision to backfly without a dytter didn't he? What he did doesn't relate to someone who is doing RW with a camera for example, it's not like everyone in the group is gonna forget to track away because one guy has a camera. It's more situational than jump numbers alone, as with everything else...[/quote

You're a danger to new jumpers that might take up your advice. Stop making up excuses for everything and for the love of it listen to what the real experienced people in this sport have to say. Their attitude and knowledge probably contributed to the fact that they're still in the sport.

I doubt you come to your senses, seeing your attitude thought -_- I hope you don't hurt yourself, but especially hope that noone gets hurt thanks to your great advice/attitude.

[JeffCa 0]

mistercwood

... he got distracted by the camera and ended up a handful of seconds away from bouncing. Here's the video, if you'd like to see a fellow skygod in action.

Thanks so much for sharing that video! You don't have to sell me on this anymore, that was a mighty impressive/shocking display.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

[SecondRound 0]

popsjumper

Quote

When I get to a hundred jumps and am allowed to jump a camera, I'd love to go straight for it. But if my instructors and more experienced jumpers around me say to hold back, that's what I'll do. That doesn't make them safety nazis, it makes them concerned about keeping me alive and in one piece. Why would you want to shit on that?

You don't know how impressive this attitude is. And you are absolutely right about the concern. If you could bottle it, I'd buy gallons to feed to new jumpers.

All I know is that people can and do die in this sport and it is unforgiving of bad decisions and ignorance. The way I see it, the BSRs and the SIM are there to keep me from wandering into places where my ego or ignorance could get me hurt ort dead. This ain't no game with a reset button and I appreciate not having to make all my own mistakes. The people who have been at it a long time are my leaders not Nazis.

Apparently, the troll has little to no concern for his fellow man and that's sad....and a danger to others.

[jimmytavino 16]

-Joey-

Who cares, there's no hard and fast USPA rule about cameras, only recommendations. My DZ only requires a B License to jump a camera so yes it is not uncommon to wear one of the 50th jump if you get your B by jump 50. This safety nazi crap on this forum is getting ridiculous.

Thanks for notifying US that YOU don't care.....

good thing that there are OTHERS in our community who DO...

As for the point that YOUR DZ "allows" it....I am gonna guess that it is Because...
your DZ has a small "pro shop" that SELLS ....
Go Pros......

jmy

[mistercwood 287]

popsjumper

Quote

When I get to a hundred jumps and am allowed to jump a camera, I'd love to go straight for it. But if my instructors and more experienced jumpers around me say to hold back, that's what I'll do. That doesn't make them safety nazis, it makes them concerned about keeping me alive and in one piece. Why would you want to shit on that?

You don't know how impressive this attitude is. And you are absolutely right about the concern. If you could bottle it, I'd buy gallons to feed to new jumpers.

Apparently, the troll has little to no concern for his fellow man and that's sad....and a danger to others.

I guess I'm (technically) lucky. The only reason I don't already have my A is that back in January I injured myself on stage 1 (tandem). Going for my practise pulls, I managed to wrench my shoulder quite badly. Still finished all my drills, deployed as per normal. Was sore as hell, but was still able to pilot us down and land without incident. Debriefed the jump, and we agreed we'd see how I was feeling in an hour or two before committing to a further stage. I could see my instructors were concerned, but also wanted to work with me on the continuation if I felt I was up to it. An hour later, I'd already decided I couldn't be 100% confident in my shoulder to jump without getting a doc to check it out first - if I damaged it further on jump 2, I'd have a hell of a time landing alone, let alone performing EPs. Turns out it was the right call, because I dislocated it shortly after while testing my range of movement (as in, maybe 10 minutes after making the decision). Plenty of physio and exercise later, it's almost strong enough now for me to resume my course (but in winter, yay... ).

The four months since, my only skydiving "contact" has been youtube and DZ.com. So while I've seen some cool stuff, I've also seen and read every fatality report since January. There's a lot more of them than I would've previously expected. I've read Sanji's history, his bounce, and his bravery since then. I've seen people with 5, 7, 10 thousand jumps continue to shake their heads at preventable incidents, and I've seen where there's debate, and where there's overwhelming consensus.

I already knew skydiving was dangerous. I previously thought it was a "safer" kind of dangerous if that makes sense... I guess my takeaway has been that while it most definitely is still dangerous, the onus is on us to make it as safe as we can. Take proper responsibility and get that part nailed down, and less people get broken or die.

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[uberchris 0]

mistercwood

***Other people shouldn't have to suffer because of that guy's decision not to care about his altitude. So a few can't handle the thrill of the camera. Doesn't mean they represent everybody.

Not jumping with a camera is a kind of suffering, now? Did you read the other stickied thread I posted? I also like how you flipped his loss of altitude awareness to being a "decision". He didn't decide shit, he got distracted by the camera and ended up a handful of seconds away from bouncing. Here's the video, if you'd like to see a fellow skygod in action.

oh sweet, tender jesus, im still a noob, and dont know shit, but wouldnt you think that while your shooting your awesome video on your back, that when you see the entire formation of trackers, WELL above you under canopies, that maybe its time to pull?
what a dumbass. all he needed was a spinning mal on his main to make that video really awesome!

gravity brings me down.........

[davelepka 4]

Quote

wouldnt you think that while your shooting your awesome video on your back, that when you see the entire formation of trackers, WELL above you under canopies, that maybe its time to pull?

You would think, but there is more than one instance of this very thing happening to jumpers new to cameras. if you watch enough videos, you will see great shots of camera guys on their back filming deployments, and it does look really cool. What the videos don't show is the advanced planning between the camera guy and the deploying jumper and the higher pull altitude that's part of the plan.

In any case, the resulting videos make it look like it's something to do, and to a new camera flyer who wants to be 'cool', it's a shot they've seen before and want to get themselves. This is the 'distraction' of the camera, where wanting to get the shot manages to step ahead of all else in the jumpers mind.

It happens, and it's been happening for years. There was a time when the cost and size (weight) of cameras helped to discourage jumpers from flying cameras at all, but with those days behind us, we'll see more and more of this sort of thing (see the sticky in the video forum) as buying a wearing the camera has become so much easier. Of course flying the camera remains the same challenge as before.

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

I already knew skydiving was dangerous. I previously thought it was a "safer" kind of dangerous if that makes sense... I guess my takeaway has been that while it most definitely is still dangerous, the onus is on us to make it as safe as we can. Take proper responsibility and get that part nailed down, and less people get broken or die.

Excellent post! You seem to have both the desire and the tools...keep it up.

I gotta tell ya ~ YOU are at the end of the bar graph that gives me hope there are still people out there that 'get it'.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~