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is buying a protrack a good idea?

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with less than 40 jumps i thought "ok i have a spare little piece of cash, i'll get me an audible too", which i thought would be another "back up" just incase i lost alti awareness - which i haven't done in any of my jumps to date, but i like the idea of having it another alti, plus the other fun features on the Protrack.

Anyway then i thought - well seeing as im pretty inexperienced, would it be a better idea to NOT buy an audible now, and use the ground and my visual alti as a means to build my alti awareness?
What do you guys think? Should i hold off for a while?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

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If you do get an audible, I strongly recommend setting it 500 feet below your breakoff and pull altitudes. That way, you will not become reliant on it, and if you do hear it, it will warn you that you've gotten too low before it becomes a safety issue.

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If you do get an audible, I strongly recommend setting it 500 feet below your breakoff and pull altitudes. That way, you will not become reliant on it, and if you do hear it, it will warn you that you've gotten too low before it becomes a safety issue.



ahh great idea bill thanks

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

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I was jumping mine when I was still a student - I think the more aids to altitude awareness the better. Plus i saves you having to add up your total freefall all the time ;)
-----------------------------------
It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

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I have one in each ear, plus a wrist mount altimeter. I agree that they should be backups to your own continuous altitude awareness. I just want the entire universe to scream my altitude at me the one time I get distracted.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

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I 100% agree with Bill as well. I've seen very high timers have their cypress fire because of dead batteries in their audibles. Twice, but that's enough.

That said I would find it VERY annoying to have that thing going off after I'm in my track and then again after I've pulled. It's done that on cross countries and it's so annoying. If you're going to use one, use it propperly.


"Five days? But I'm angry now!"

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I too had concerns about becoming dependant on it while still early in my "career" .... but wanted to have it to work on fall rate (tall and skinny ... S L O W .. ) ... so carry it in my jumpsuit pocket .. logs the jumps just fine, and I still have to maintain alt. awareness .. I'm just about comfortable enough with myself maintaining awareness that I am considering moving it to my helmet soon.
As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

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I understand the whole "not wanting to become dependant thing".

But....why not just use the damn thing? The same argument could be used for a Visual Altimeter. Its just a crutch. You don't need any Alti's.....but since they are there, why not use them?

I mean skydiving is dangerous enough. Use every aid you can to keep from being KILLED. Yes I know its all caps.

But I mean if you don't want to get dependent, why have a reserve? Why wear a hard helmet? Why have an AAD?

Come on....put the thing in the helmet. use your eyes to tell how high you are....and the Altimeter....and the Audible.

You don't trust the visual alti alone do you? I have had 2 break on me. If I waited till they said 2 grand I would have bounced.....Fact is, when said 6 and I looked at it a few seconds later and it still said 6...I thought. Damn, thats gonna be 150.00 bucks. I broke off with the group....tracked, and deployed.

It is a tool, not a Holy Grail.

Use the damn thing...you bought it, be safe.

Ron
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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>The same argument could be used for a Visual Altimeter.

There is a huge difference. A visual altimeter fails in an obvious way. The digital types go blank; the analog ones stop moving. That tells you something's wrong. An audible that's above breakoff altitude sounds _exactly_ like a broken audible when you're in freefall at 1000 feet.

>Fact is, when said 6 and I looked at it a few seconds later and it still said 6 . . .

Yep. How would you have known with an audible?

>You don't trust the visual alti alone do you?

No, but I do trust a visual with my eyes as a backup, and I have no problem doing a 4-way with no altimeters. It's all in what you're used to.

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Yep Bill the Visual quits and you know it... by looking at it.

Thats about the only real difference.

I have had audibles break as well. The thing I like about them is they DO cause me to associate the visual of the ground, and the Altitude. I "Know" when I am at 3500. I have been there enough, and when I see it, I know. But one of the reasons that it is in my mind is due to the number of times the Beeping in my ear has told me its time.

I know that my audible is broken by seeing the ground, but not hearing a beep at the right time.....

I just think....yes get one, but don't rely on any piece of equipment.

I don't trust a Visual Alti anymore
I don't stay a 120 while the Earth looks like it is closing fast. Or until I hear a beep.

Its a tool, if you can get one, get one.

I personally think it will do a better job of teaching you altitude than a Visual.

My thoughts.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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I know that my audible is broken by seeing the ground, but not hearing a beep at the right time.....



yes, but it's very easy for people to STOP looking at they don't have to anymore -- once the have their audible to remind them. THAT is there the danger lies.

I like bill's idea of setting it 500ft lower than breakoff; if you hear it and you haven't broken off yet, guess what, you lost awareness.

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

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id have to agree...both protracks and altis are reference devices. being a mechanical engineer, i know that nothing is fail safe. if things are getting bigger you should know that its time to pitch, regardless of what your instruments say. i bought my protrack about a month ago and i love it.



Here's to the Breezes that blows through the Trezzez.....

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But....why not just use the damn thing?


use it? sure. depend on it? no...

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But I mean if you don't want to get dependent, why have a reserve?


as a backup

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Why wear a hard helmet?


just in case

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Why have an AAD?


as a backup, just in case.

I don't go jumping my reserve every day, i don't go careening into things with my head, and i don't wait for my AAD to save me.. they're all backups. They're there if something goes wrong, i don't put them to the test on a daily basis.

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Come on....put the thing in the helmet. use your eyes to tell how high you are....and the Altimeter....and the Audible.



YES! EXACTLY! That's what SHOULD be done. But far too many people don't do it that way.

What we're warning against is the seductiveness of letting it be your PRIMARY device for altitude awareness. It's easy enough thing to slide into, and we just want to stick that in peoples' minds before they start down the slope.

-jerm

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

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there are upsides, and downsides to audibles, upside being (for me anyway) not having to write every jump down, you can do them all at once at the end of the day, you'll have a way better handle on what body position gives the most/less speed, you have a way better handle on exit, deployment altitudes. downside (for me anyway) when i was under a 100 jumps, i used to look at my altimeter every 5-6 seconds, and lock on at 3500' or so to pull at 2500', i've forgotten my altimeter on one jump, i jumped anyway because i thought "what the heck, i've got an audible!" plus i know what the ground looks like at 2500' (i know, i know) and the audible has made me complacent about my altitude awareness, i've found myself exiting at 14,200 before, and taking it to 7K before checking my altimeter. i have been making corrections for this. i've kicked myself more than once for relying on it, but i like it. one more upside to it, if you want to hear it, you have to wear a helmet, which i hate to wear, i love jumping without one. but the last jump i made, my helmet saved my life...no joke. but generally i'd say, if ya got the bucks, by all means sir, get one, just don't become reliant on it, it can be done.
--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

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Jerm, Do you agree or not????

I really can't tell.....

AAD's, Reserves, Helmets, Visual and audible Altis are back ups.....

I am not going to rely on a single parachute, visual, or an audible device....Then again I am not just going to trust my eyes....I have 3 ways to see if the fast moving planet is to close.....and 2 chances to stop it.

I never said "Put it in your helmet and throw out your Altimeter".....

I say set it for break off like it was designed, and try to guess when it is going to happen. In time you will "set" your eyes to the right altitude. Be proactive, don't just wait for it to tell you when to do anything. Use it for what it is worth.

I don't think you should set it lower than planned break off.

500 feet lower, and you are 3 seconds closer to death.

My thoughts.

Ron
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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