DSE 3 #1 June 23, 2013 https://vimeo.com/68934659 Discuss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 173 #2 June 23, 2013 Wow. What rig, main and reserve? What kept the reserve in the container? It seems the jumper goes sideways with hands by the reserve handle at deployment. Was the handle pulled or dislodged? AAD fire? I have seen a couple of pop top type rigs get damaged with a partial reserve PC being ripped off by the deploying main at high speed. Fill in the blanks Spot... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigMark 1 #3 June 23, 2013 Looks like main pilot chute hesitation, jumper goes straight to reserve just as main deploys? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #4 June 23, 2013 Seems like an out of sequence emergency procedure. Had he cut away after that, he would have had a MARD scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #5 June 23, 2013 piisfish Seems like an out of sequence emergency procedure. Had he cut away after that, he would have had a MARD i think that's what i would have done.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irishrigger 31 #6 June 23, 2013 from the RPC looks like a wings container to me. i agree with incorrect EP, propably a pilot chute in tow due to uncocked main pilot chute??? what ever happend to arching when pulling your reserve, one can clearly see a De-arch when reserve handle was pulled. if main had not opened at that time reserve bridle could have been wrapped aroung the jumper and not through the risers of the main. but the main thing is that we are reading about this in this forum and not as another fatality in the incident forum.any idea as to expierience level to this Person? I hope that this video will be an eye opener for a lot of people. i think a lot of expierienced people have become way to complacent with EP. and there is a very growing and disturbing trend occuring of people doing incorrect EP procedures.blue and save jumping all Rodger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,904 #7 June 23, 2013 I would interpret that as a p/c in tow followed by a decision not to cutaway then a two handed reserve pull. The cut away or not procedure has been debated thoroughly with no resolution. You should indeed maintain an arch while deploying your reserve, but it could be difficult to do that while pulling with both hands. One or two hand training? Another endless debate, but I think two hand training is just plain stupid FWIW. I don't really see where he made any other mistakes. Sometimes you just have to act now, and that is what he did.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,051 #8 June 23, 2013 Little confused by the 4,000 foot final check before deployment and then why these two things happen at 1:07 & 1:08 Was there a pitch, then over adrenaline on a hesitation resulting in reserve pull? Many questions.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #9 June 23, 2013 irishrigger I hope that this video will be an eye opener for a lot of people. i think a lot of expierienced people have become way to complacent with EP. and there is a very growing and disturbing trend occuring of people doing the correct EP procedures. I've nearly finished an edited version speaking to each of the issues, but felt it's worth getting out there for discussion without my editorial input. The jumper has been in the sport a long time, but I wouldn't call this person an "active jumper." One of the questions asked upon examination of the rig was "Should I have cut away after my main deployed?" Some answered that "The main would merely have been a MARD deployment." I'm not so sure this would have been that simple. It almost seems we need Safety Day in June. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #10 June 23, 2013 Video has now been updated to include more information and call-outs. What I didn't put in there, was that the jumper would have likely been better off not unstowing toggles, as there was RPC/Bridle housekeeping to do. Having the canopy fly more slowly would have eliminated the turn (that increased pressure on the RPC) and allowed for a more calm response to the situation. It wasn't a good place to be, but there are several actions that could have happened after the deployment that may have further reduced risk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #11 June 27, 2013 Damn! I remember pulling my drogue out of my reserve lines once. Kinda looked like that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #12 June 27, 2013 BIGUNLittle confused by the 4,000 foot final check before deployment First time at DZ, first jump in a while, etc perhaps?cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #13 June 27, 2013 grue***Little confused by the 4,000 foot final check before deployment First time at DZ, first jump in a while, etc perhaps? If I didn't know the jumper and their currency, that would be my first thought too. (Unfortunately?) that's not the case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-ftp- 0 #14 June 27, 2013 Highly unlikely, but can you imaine if the reserve stayed in the bag and went through the risers also? Then deploys and the jumper cuts away the main. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deimian 43 #15 June 27, 2013 -ftp- Highly unlikely, but can you imaine if the reserve stayed in the bag and went through the risers also? Then deploys and the jumper cuts away the main. What would be the appropriate response there? Hook knife to the rear main riser before cutting away? But just if you really have to cut away, I imagine it can be a side by side that can stay stable. I guess. I have a hook knife on my rig and I hope I would never ever have to use it. Chances are that I will ruin my shinny underwear if I have to . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-ftp- 0 #16 June 27, 2013 Deimian ***Highly unlikely, but can you imaine if the reserve stayed in the bag and went through the risers also? Then deploys and the jumper cuts away the main. What would be the appropriate response there? Hook knife to the rear main riser before cutting away? But just if you really have to cut away, I imagine it can be a side by side that can stay stable. I guess. I have a hook knife on my rig and I hope I would never ever have to use it. Chances are that I will ruin my shinny underwear if I have to . well my thought is if you don't realize that its through the riser and you cut away your main, your in for a world of hurt with nothing but chance left to save you. Cutaway main could choke the reserve as it travels up the lines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #17 June 27, 2013 -ftp-Highly unlikely, but can you imaine if the reserve stayed in the bag and went through the risers also? Then deploys and the jumper cuts away the main. This is one of the considerations, yes. Some feel that the main would act as a MARD, and all would be well. I'm not so sure, given the short length between the riser and the bridle attachment on the freebag, plus the RSL, Might have worked, might not have. Fortunately, we have a learning experience without an associated injury. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #18 June 27, 2013 My thoughts on the appropriate response would be: * Do not unstow the brakes. * Reel in the RPC and control it. * Gently reel in the reserve bridle so that it does not have so much drag as to pull the reserve from the pack tray. * Unstow the brakes and gently bring the canopy to full flight. * If you had a mal when you unstowed the brakes, chop and release the RPC. I thnk the riser/bridle entanglement would act as a MARD. * Slow turns and gentle return to the landing area. I have seen this on one other occasion. Jumper opened in this configuration but soon his freebag was in the slider. I was able to top dock him and let him use both hands to reel in his RPC. He then chose to remove it with his hook knife and toss it, leaving the freebag/reserve in his hands. He landed uneventfully. Sorry, no video..... topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-ftp- 0 #19 July 1, 2013 DSE***Highly unlikely, but can you imaine if the reserve stayed in the bag and went through the risers also? Then deploys and the jumper cuts away the main. This is one of the considerations, yes. Some feel that the main would act as a MARD, and all would be well. I'm not so sure, given the short length between the riser and the bridle attachment on the freebag, plus the RSL, Might have worked, might not have. Fortunately, we have a learning experience without an associated injury. my thougt was the reserve is pulled through the risers, then opens when the free bag is pulled off. now you have a 2 out but the reserve risers are passed through the main risers. If you are not aware what is going on, and you chop the main, it will travel up the reseve lines and possibly choke the reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites