SSkydiver 0 #1 May 4, 2003 In AFF all students require an instuctor to sign there jumps but at what point after AFF are you not needing the signature of an instuctor. Basically when can you begin to sign your own jumps? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #2 May 4, 2003 You'll need someone else's signature for all jumps that you want to count towards a license or rating. I think you can sign your own jumps when you have a D-license, but you will still need someone elses signature for jumps applied to ratings (like pro rating accuracy jumps) I think. Just keep getting em signed by any jumper. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 May 4, 2003 Quote think you can sign your own jumps when you have a D-license That's a misconception. Generally speaking, people who aren't interested in obtaining any ratings don't get signatures in their log books after their D since it doesn't really matter. Although according to the SIM, its not a valid log entry without an oppropiate signature (not your own), as well as a handful of other things. Strangely enough, from what I understand (I don't have first hand knowledge here), some course directors for various ratings, only look at entries, they don't necissarily look to make sure that they're all signed. (I wonder is Snopes has anything about this? ).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #4 May 4, 2003 SIM 3.1.c.3 Jumps to meet skill requirements must be signed by a USPA Instructor, Instructor Examiner, Safety & Training Advisor, or a member of the USPA Board of Directors. SIM 5.2.A & B You also have currency requirements and if you do not log your jumps you are unable to provide that information.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyer299 0 #5 May 4, 2003 This is really strange to me. When I was flying, I signed my own Pilot's logbook. An instructor would sign my log book for any flights that he provided instruction for. But at the bottom of each page I signed to certify that the information was true. Why doesn't that apply for skydiving? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #6 May 4, 2003 QuoteStrangely enough, from what I understand (I don't have first hand knowledge here), some course directors for various ratings, only look at entries, they don't necissarily look to make sure that they're all signed. Guess you haven't met Rick Horn. When taking his AFFCC, Rick has you bring ALL your log books and he checks for signatures for the 6 consecutive hours needed to attend his course. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #7 May 4, 2003 Read the whole thread... Its not a good idea to sign your own log book. If you intend on getting any ratings or awards, its just a good form of checks and balances. Why even open yourself up to question? I've yet to have anyone say, "Nah, I don't want to sign your logbook" and it takes 3 seconds. The only exception to logbook review for the AFFCC is the 12 hour Freefall badge, which one's books are reviewed by an S&TA, BOD, etc. for award. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #8 May 4, 2003 If Canadian pilots want to keep Transport Canada happy, they ask their flight school to "certify" all instruction before applying for their next rating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSkydiver 0 #9 May 4, 2003 Quote Quote think you can sign your own jumps when you have a D-license That's a misconception. Generally speaking, people who aren't interested in obtaining any ratings don't get signatures in their log books after their D since it doesn't really matter. Although according to the SIM, its not a valid log entry without an oppropiate signature (not your own), as well as a handful of other things. Strangely enough, from what I understand (I don't have first hand knowledge here), some course directors for various ratings, only look at entries, they don't necissarily look to make sure that they're all signed. (I wonder is Snopes has anything about this? ). As you can see this question gets various answers. I log all my jumps but have not had anyone else sign my logbook for quite some time. I've asked around my dz and everyone seems stumped at the question. There doesnt seem to be a concrete answer to this question Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #10 May 4, 2003 Quote SIM 3.1.c.3 Jumps to meet skill requirements must be signed by a USPA Instructor, Instructor Examiner, Safety & Training Advisor, or a member of the USPA Board of Directors. SIM 5.2.A & B You also have currency requirements and if you do not log your jumps you are unable to provide that information. clarification question: this mean the specific jumps you do for a skills evaluation have to be signed by an instructor or better? this does not mean that every jump you make has to be signed by a I rated (or better) jumper to count for a rating minimum does it? i usually have someone that was on the dive (or in the plane if it was a solo) sign for most, although i have jumps i've logged later off my protrack that havent always been signed.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KATO33 0 #11 May 5, 2003 General ? for all is the purpose of the signature to verirify the jump was done or the task described was done. Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #12 May 5, 2003 This is what the APF has to say on the matter: OpRegs: SECTION 3 - CERTIFICATES AND LICENCES 3.1.2. Only parachute descents logged as required by 7.1 shall be accepted as evidence for issue of APF Parachutist Certificates, Sporting Licences, APF Display Licences and Display Organiser Licences. SECTION 7 - RECORDS 7.1. PARACHUTIST'S LOG 7.1.1. All parachutists will keep a log of their descents. The log entry for each descent made by a student parachutist shall be signed in accordance with 6.1.9. 7.1.2. The log shall contain the type of parachute descent, the date on which the descent was made, the location of the DZ, the exit height, the free fall time in seconds, the distance landed from the target centre and the type and registration of the aircraft. 7.1.3. Where the parachutist’s log is used as evidence for an application for the issue or revalidation of a Parachutist Certificate, licence or rating, verification of the log may be required by any of the persons required to authorise its issue or revalidation. Legal certification may be accepted where log is lost. See also 3.1.2. (my highlighting) SECTION 6 - TRAINING REQUIREMENTS 6.1.9. The jumpmaster or DZSO shall make appropriate remarks in each student parachutist's log and authenticate the descent by signing the entry. . Basically, Students (ie before A licence) need their instructor to sign their logbook. After that, you can get any licenced parachutist to sign. Verification is getting someone else to sign. It removes all (most?) doubt as to the achievements of each jump.-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #13 May 5, 2003 Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #14 May 5, 2003 Hope it helps. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #15 May 6, 2003 Quote SIM 3.1.c.3 Jumps to meet skill requirements must be signed by a USPA Instructor, Instructor Examiner, Safety & Training Advisor, or a member of the USPA Board of Directors. SIM 5.2.A & B You also have currency requirements and if you do not log your jumps you are unable to provide that information. Regardless off neccesity or not, there is no way I will or can get all my jump's signed without great hassle. Ive done over 200+ jump's this month alone, that is a lot of walking around asking people to sign for me. I also log my jumps by the day now instead of the jump, Ie: 24 Jumps Norwegian Team, I log the aircraft and time ect but that is about it, for something special like my 43 jump day I got signatures from all the team. As far as fun Jumps I just get a print out from my dz, and get an instructor to sign the # of jumps I log, like if I did 50 fun jumps inbetween fun jump log's, I log 50 jumps jan-march then have an instructor look at my print out and sign it. Makes for interesting conversation when I go to a new Dz. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #16 May 6, 2003 How do you go with the specifics of your log? APF rules require: type of parachute descent date location of the DZ, exit height free fall time in seconds distance landed from the target centre type and registration of the aircraft.-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamsville 0 #17 May 7, 2003 I realize this deviates from the intent of the thread, but do you ever get bored after all those jumps? |I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #18 May 7, 2003 Quote How do you go with the specifics of your log? APF rules require: type of parachute descent date location of the DZ, exit height free fall time in seconds distance landed from the target centre type and registration of the aircraft. i log Dive type,date,location,aircraft type, distance from tgt (sometimes when i remember usually if i'm dead on or way off i note it) I also add exit/deployment alti & freefall delay from my protrac, and names and "points" in shorthand.. somedays are more detailed than others it depends on when i log and how many jumps i did that day..sometimes i'm just playing catch up on my log book and those entries are rather sparce ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoobieCootie 0 #19 May 8, 2003 Incidentally, this was something I posted late last year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #20 May 8, 2003 Ray, If it were not for a ProTrac I'd be in the same situation. Fact is you do not have to log anything unless it's for license, rating, or currency. The only thing I'd ask you is how do you keep track of freefall time? I log each jump as 69/28:52:23. 69 second jump plus total + 28 hours:52 minutes:23 seconds. If I get behind a few jumps it's tough to catch up without spending a great deal of time doing so.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #21 May 8, 2003 Quote Ray, If it were not for a ProTrac I'd be in the same situation. Fact is you do not have to log anything unless it's for license, rating, or currency. The only thing I'd ask you is how do you keep track of freefall time? I log each jump as 69/28:52:23. 69 second jump plus total + 28 hours:52 minutes:23 seconds. If I get behind a few jumps it's tough to catch up without spending a great deal of time doing so. Quote I kind of cheat myself out of seconds but its ok with me, I log all jump's from 13'500 as 60 seconds and the ones from 10'500 as 40 second's, the ones I did from 5'000 were about 5 seconds. I'ts not super important to me to know the total, time and I know I did the jump's. And once my Neptune is snugly in my camerahelmet, then I will have a more accurate detail of everything. But then again I finish school soon, so I will be jumping less and working on my real job. Cutting away from career skydiving! Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #22 May 8, 2003 Isn't it curious that pilots, who may have many others' lives entrusted to their care, may sign their own logbooks for currency purposes, but a skydiver may not? And then skydivers may self-certify that they are medically fit, but pilots may not. Maybe pilots are considered to be more honest than skydivers about their flying but not about their health. Then again, maybe it's just bloody stupid rulemaking.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoobieCootie 0 #23 May 8, 2003 Quote Incidentally, this was something I posted late last year. ps! I meant this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #24 May 8, 2003 The penalty for forged flight time would be a lot worse than the penalty for forged skydives. Course everything's legal till you get caught, right? I think some classes of pilots should be able to medical self certify, but it's not gonna happen. The FAA isn't even going to allow sport pilots (coming soon to an airport near you) to self certify. Glider pilots can. I guess ya gotta be extra healthy when you've got an engine. Seems to me glider pilots and skydivers are in an emergency situation on every flight. Shouldn't they need physicals? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #25 May 8, 2003 QuoteSeems to me glider pilots and skydivers are in an emergency situation on every flight. Shouldn't they need physicals? You've missed the entire point of the FAA. The FAA (generally) doesn't protect you from yourself, they protect the public from you. Think about it, the more people you can take in an aircraft, the more it's regulated. Powered aircraft can (generally) fly much greater distances and over much more populated areas.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
