Are most people at MileHi negative?

[stan321123 0]

I did not create this poll simply to bash MileHi. I created it to possibly help open the eyes of some of the MileHi pricks that are creating a negative environment at our DZ. The one's that feel that if they can swoop, instruct others, or jump a camera, that they also have the right to be an asshole to those that are less experienced. You should help and reach out to the less experienced jumpers, not ostracize them. I have been to several other dropzones and none have been as negative as this one. I don't want to give up on MileHi because it's my home DZ and I truly believe that it has the potential of being a DZ full of good energy and good people. The sad thing is that the staff and regulars generally are the one's creating this negative environment for the rest of us. I have been jumping at MileHi on and off for over two years and this situation has not improved one bit. We do have some great people at MileHi, but unfortunately it seems that the negativity of the staff and the regulars are driving away all of the kind people.

So, how do we correct this? What measures should the DZO take to improve this situation? Is it his responsibility? Is it the staff's? Is it the regulars? Is it the instructors? Is it mine? Is it yours?

[WrongWay 0]

I see a thrashing coming your way, but I won't be the one to do it, as it's not my place and for all I know you could be 100% correct or 100% wrong. I will tell you this though. I've been to a few dz's I got a bad taste in my mouth from, and I've been to one that I and MANY others will never go back to because of the reasons you described in this case. However, I also know good people who came from there whose attitudes haven't been corrupted by those around them. It is for the sake of these people, and because of the bond we share as jumpers that I do not post the name or location of this dropzone. I have a feeling that you're going to be bashed not for accusations of "assholery" or "skygodism" at this dz, as there are others just like it if you're correct, but rather it is the fact that you came right out and slammed the name on a public forum that will cause you trouble. Just a helpful opinion for future reference.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[happythoughts 0]

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I did not create this poll simply to bash MileHi.

Don't worry. People who post anonymously while trashing a group/person are generally ignored.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Dang we have an anonymous angry poster here today.

I voted for "The DZO is helping to improve the overall vibe at MileHi" because if you look back one year ago today, the DZ is a better place today than what it was last year. The DZ still has a way to go to make itself the type of DZ which will attract jumpers from all over the place, but it's not the total tandem factory that it used to be. Frank and Brad have done a good job making this a DZ which people can make many loads in a day. But is it their responsibility to ensure that you are having a good time, or is it yours?

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I created it to possibly help open the eyes of some of the MileHi pricks that are creating a negative environment at our DZ. The one's that feel that if they can swoop, instruct others, or jump a camera, that they also have the right to be an asshole to those that are less experienced. You should help and reach out to the less experienced jumpers, not ostracize them

Hmmm ... care to give some concrete examples or is this just a blanket statement? Things at Mile-Hi are far from ideal, but I don't see things the same way your do.

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So, how do we correct this? What measures should the DZO take to improve this situation? Is it his responsibility? Is it the staff's? Is it the regulars? Is it the instructors? Is it mine? Is it yours?

It is everyone's responsibility. Obviously the DZ must foster an environment which attracts jumpers ... bringing an Otter in for the summer is a step in the right direction. Having the DZ help setup canopy control coaching is another step. But it really is up to the individual jumpers to make it happen.

Not having anyone to jump with sucks and unfortunately this happens at Mile-Hi to some people more often than it should. Part of it has to do with the click at the DZ (not unique to this DZ), and part of it has to do with the DZ not offering any sort of load organizing and part of it has to do with the solo jumper not being motivated enough to take it upon themselves to get in on some jumps. Ask people ... talk to people ... be pro-active. Don't be one of those jumpers who shows up at the DZ, sits in the corner not talking to anyone and wondering why you don't get in on any jumps (not saying you are one of these people ... heck I don't even know who you are).

Look at guys like Colin, Glenn and Steve Z. All relatively new-comers without numerous hundreds or thousands of jumps. They all spent many days doing only solos at Mile-Hi. But they all have their skydiving goals and each one of them has been pro-active in pursuing these goals. And now the three of them along with Brad Cole have formed a 4-way intermediate RW team.

It's not uncommon for myself to manifest myself for a load not knowing what I'll be doing and not knowing who I'll be jumping with. So when I show up at the trailer, I do a once over to see who's on the load, if I know the people and have jumped with them I will talk to them about what they have going on. If they are doing something pre-planned and don't want any more people, no problem. I'll either look for another group or go do a solo (I have so many things I want to work on, that the odd solo is good for me). So in other words, ultimately it is up to the individual jumper to make things happen. But talk to some of us, you never know that maybe your goals are the same as someone else's. Be pro-active with your skydiving goals.

I have done my far share of recent Mile-Hi bashing what with the recent price increase, but you still find me jumping there on almost every weekend (except this one coming up as I will be up in Canada) and you'll also find me hanging around for one of the sunset tracking dives which are open to virtually any licensed skydiver.

Maybe it's time that the DZ introduced RW and Freeflying load organizers (now that an Otter will be around), but once again. I feel the ultimate responsibility for a jumper to have a good time at the DZ rests on their own individual shoulders. Be pro-active with your skydiving goals. If other people don't know what you want to do, how are they going to know to help you (assuming they are even in a position to help you).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

The past two weekends since the jump ticket price increase/charity fund announcement have been very different that what I've experienced at our home dz since October 03. The smiles, laughter and high energy has changed. Even the packing area has become somewhat quiet and subdued. But ya know, I've been told by upjumpers that a similar event took place last year, jumpers rebelled and jumped at another dz, but after some time for things to settle, the fun jumpers came back. Also, I think that MileHi will always stay strong based on their tandem and student volume.

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[scottjaco 0]

First off, you need to identify yourself. It shows that you have balls.

Second, if you are going to bash a dropzone, I would recommend not jumping there anymore. I'm almost positive that your post will be fowarded to the DZO by a loyal MileHi jumper who is online.

If you hate them, why do you want to help them to earn back your buisness. I wouldn't bother.

If the DZO is apathetic, you don't like the people and the vibe sucks, do you think they care about what you think?

I would jump somewhere else.

[scottjaco 0]

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price increase/charity fund announcement

What was the price increase? What was the old price? Why are they raising it and calling it a charity?

[WFFC 1]

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What was the price increase? What was the old price? Why are they raising it and calling it a charity?

Jump tickets were raised to 22$ from 21$. This was done at the direction, not the request of the DZOs family. The former DZO was in a Pitts crash approx 1 year ago. The family kept the DZ open against the advice of their peers since it is a risky venture, but the DZ has survived and grown.
The $1 increase will be donated by the dz to a non profit fund that is being setup in the former dzos name. The current DZ Mgr thought it was appropriate to advise exactly what the increase was for to the jumpers. Based on the response, it probably would have been easier to just say the cost of living went up and not even have mentioned the fund. But, people will bitch about anything given the chance.

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~~~Michael

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

Thanks for the clarification Mike

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[jriggert 0]

What is ironic is that you are complaining about negative attitudes by broadcasting your negative attitude to hundreds/ maybe thousands of people on this forum. Is that really going to help make MileHi a better place? I don't want to make it seem like I am bashing because I think we all want the same thing - a more social, fun, inviting atmosphere at Mile High. I assume you have good intentions, but I promise you that venting about it will not change a thing. Before any of us can complain I think we need to look how each of us contribute to make things better. Do you go out of your way to welcome visitors and jump with them? Do you spend time with students and new jumpers to help make them feel at home? Outside of jumping and packing your own rig, what do you do to contribute? I'll be honest and say that I don't do these things either. I think it's natural to want to show up, pay the least amount of money possible, and have the best/ safest environment given to us. But you won't hear me complain if I'm not GIVEN everything I want. We already do have a lot going for us - convenient location, good weather, safe jump plane, beautiful scenery, and many great people. You say you want to open the eyes of the "pricks" out there... well try opening your own eyes a little wider and realize it is going to take some real effort by all of us to create any change.

JJ

[Romericus 0]

*whispering*: the word of the day is.... pro-active.

*regular speaking voice*: I agree with you 100%. At my home DZ it used to be very cliqueish, and many people took offense at it. The term there was "Raefordite" (no offense to kate).

Here's what I did. I made it known that I was a young jumper on a mission to become a better skydiver. I looked at where I wanted to be, and found people on the DZ who had achieved the goals i was pursuing. I hung around with them and bugged them until they jumped with me. I didn't act like a fool and ignore the people who trained me or fellow young jumpers. However, the majoirty of my time was spent with the high jump numbers people, because lets face it, they could get me where i wanted to be. Sometimes I had to pay for a coach jump, but others, people saw me solo on a load and offered to jump with me for free (thanks Tony and Kate
Pro-active is definitely the word of the day.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

On a footnote to this "pro-active" talk, I'd like to share somthing that a badass skydiver said to me this morning concerning our own personal skydiving goals. I am not going to say who this person is (why drag them into this, they didn't ask for it), but trust me when I say that this person is truly badass, has no negative skygod attitude towards themself and recently did something pretty incredible in the skydiving world only because they had set out a while ago to achieve something in this sport.

Here is what this person said to me:

It's crazy how in this sport if you want something badly enough, and put in the time, your efforts will almost certainly be rewarded with success. Unfortrunately, I have found that personally, my results seem to vary when I apply the same attitude outside of jumping. C'est la vie.

Hmmm ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[stan321123 0]

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First off, you need to identify yourself. It shows that you have balls.

I have no balls and my name is not Stan. Most would not want to be identified in this situation. There is no need for me to identify myself, just as there is no need for anyone voting in this poll to be identified. My only interest here is to bring this to the attention of everyone that jumps and/or works at MileHi that can make a difference. We all need to help here. One person cannot change the overall vibe of a DZ. Look at the poll results so far, most are not happy with MileHi but still jump there. Most of us all still support MileHi, otherwise we wouldn't continue to jump there. Why do we still jump their? Well, we all have our reasons. I still want to jump their because I believe that MileHi can be a great DZ, I believe that Frank works his ass off for the DZ and wants a good DZ, and I believe that MileHi does in fact have some great people jumping their. My fear is that negativity on the DZ is continuing to push away positive people, new jumpers, and essentially encourage negative behavior/attitudes.

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Second, if you are going to bash a dropzone, I would recommend not jumping there anymore. I'm almost positive that your post will be fowarded to the DZO by a loyal MileHi jumper who is online.

I hope that it is forwarded. I'm not bashing Frank or MileHi, I'm trying to make sure that these issues are not simply ignored.

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If you hate them, why do you want to help them to earn back your buisness. I wouldn't bother.

I do not hate them, or anyone else for that matter. I am close to a lot of people there. I want to give them my business because I feel that this is an issue that can be resolved. Leaving will do nothing to help the DZ. I try to be as positive and as social as possible to help encourage a good vibe. I am proactive, take my word on this. The first step is acknowledging this as an issue. Look at the results of this poll, there obviously is an issue that needs to be addressed.

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If the DZO is apathetic, you don't like the people and the vibe sucks, do you think they care about what you think?

You're unintentionally beginning to put words in my mouth. It's not as simple as that I "don't like the people and the vibe sucks". I like plenty of the people there and the vibe does not always suck, the vibe just need to be improved. You're right, they shouldn't necessarily care what I think as an individual, but they should care about what a large group of their fun jumpers think. I think that the results of this poll already confirms that I am not alone here.

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I have a feeling that you're going to be bashed not for accusations of "assholery" or "skygodism" at this dz, as there are others just like it if you're correct, but rather it is the fact that you came right out and slammed the name on a public forum that will cause you trouble.

That's fine, some may feel that my only intent here was to bash, but that is so far from the truth.

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I voted for "The DZO is helping to improve the overall vibe at MileHi" because if you look back one year ago today, the DZ is a better place today than what it was last year. The DZ still has a way to go to make itself the type of DZ which will attract jumpers from all over the place, but it's not the total tandem factory that it used to be.

That's great and I'm glad that you feel that way. I totally respect your opinion, but there are still a lot of us that don't necessarily feel the same way that you do. You definitely are one of the positive people at MileHi that helps create a good vibe, but unfortunately there are not a lot of people like you that are in the "clicks" and are still cool with people that are not in the "clicks". You're cool with new jumpers, students, etc. and you don't walk around creating a negative environment. You're one of the good ones and unfortunately you're out numbered.

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Do you go out of your way to welcome visitors and jump with them? Do you spend time with students and new jumpers to help make them feel at home?

Yes, I honestly do. I know that some of you would like to believe that I am spineless, I'm just bitching, and that I am just trying to cause trouble, but that is so far from the truth. I am proactive, but I am only one person and can only do so much. Steve is also proactive, as well as some others, but we are the minority at MileHi.

[ChrisL 2]

I have heard stories of people being kicked off a DZ for expressing negative things.
Given this simple fact, I dont see why someone cant post an anonymous opinion.

What if the DZ in question is the only one this person could get to and they want to express their thoughts without making themselves a target?

I think its perfectly valid to post this anonymously as long as its specific and not just blind bashing and trash talk.

What do balls have to do with it?

Nothing.

To comepletely discount a post like this because the poster wished to remain anonymous is silly and unfair.
I can certainly understand the reason for wanting anonymity.

I cant speak to the factualness of this guys post, never been to milehi.
I'm merely defending his right to post anonymously.

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My mighty steed

[stan321123 0]

Thanks Chris, I'm glad that some of you can understand why I would prefer to remain anonymous.

You're right, balls have nothing to do with this. If I wasn't posting anonymously, I probably would have responded a bit differently to that comment, but I don't want to be a trash talking anonymous dude, so I made light of it. Besides, I've never lacked having balls/courage in situations like this, so I had no need to get all defensive. Plus, I actually have pretty big balls/nuts, so once again there was no need for me to get all defensive. I'm confident in myself and can't be easily manipulated. I've openly expressed my views on various occasions in the past, however, in this situation it would undoubtedly bring me more harm than it would good. I don't want to be asked to leave MileHi and I don't want to ever be on jump run wondering if someone fucked with my rig to get back at me for voicing my opinion.

As far as the 'factualness' of my post, take a look at the poll results.

Thanks again, I appreciate you defending my decision to post anonymously in this situation.

[scottjaco 0]

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Besides, I've never lacked having balls/courage in situations like this, however, in this situation it would undoubtedly bring me more harm than it would good.

So you have "balls/nuts" but you are afraid expressing yourself openly would "bring you more harm than good"

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I don't want to be asked to leave MileHi

You can't always have it both ways. Somtimes, when shit hits the fan, someone has to leave.

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I don't want to ever be on jump run wondering if someone fucked with my rig to get back at me for voicing my opinion.

1)So now you are afraid people want to murder you?

2)Do you know how to perform a "Gear Check"?

[WFFC 1]

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I'm glad that some of you can understand why I would prefer to remain anonymous.

It is more difficult to work through an issue when 'a little fly said'...If you're having a beef, sit down and chat with Frank or Brad about it and see what they can do to help you out. It's very petty that you bring this to a public forum without dealing with it locally first and choose to do so annomyously. Frank doesn't have a beef with anyone and only wants the DZ to be better.
btw, posting annomyously destroys ones credibility and creates the image that one just wants to stir the pot and not accomplish anything.

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~~~Michael

[happythoughts 0]

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posting annomyously destroys ones credibility and creates the image that one just wants to stir the pot and not accomplish anything.

Perhaps a better method would be to discuss it with Mom first. Mom always understood why the other kids wouldn't play with me.

[stan321123 0]

OK scottjaco, WFFC, & happythoughts, you guys have me all figured out - I have small balls, I don't know how to perform a gear check, I think people want to murder me, no one but my mom will hang out with me, I'm trying to stir the pot, and I'm not trying to accomplish anything here. Wow, you three must be the sharpest guys on this forum.

I'm done defending myself. This is not about me, it's about the simple fact that, as of now, only 4 out of 44 votes support the notion that "The DZO is helping to improve the overall vibe at MileHi" and that they "love MileHi".

Let me break that down for you three geniuses:

That means that thus far, 90% (40 votes) of the votes are supporting the belief that:

- MileHi employees are lame, but the fun jumpers are cool

- You have to be in a "click" or be an asshole at MileHi to feel welcomed

- The DZO is contributing to this negativity

- I gave up, I refuse to jump there anymore

- MileHi is a tandem factory that doesn't care about fun jumpers or the overall vibe

[skyyhi 0]

I don't jump at Mile-Hi so cannot make a comment regarding this dropzone. . .but I can say a few things about DZs in general. As you know, here in So. Cal we have 4 dzs that each have completely different vibes. I usually go to Elsinore because I know more people there, though I jump at Perris lately also. If I want to get involved with others, I stick my nose in their business by walking up, saying hi, and letting them know I am there and would like to work on. . .whatever. . .I don't make it a habit of waiting for people to come to me. . .that is NEVER going to happen. A smile, an outgoing personality and a friendly face can get you far at your home dz. If they don't have something that you like, ask the dz if you can start doing it. Say its load organizing. . .you want to get on RW loads but no one organizes them, so you volunteer to do it. Then guess what, now the dz has load organizing. . .then as the need picks up, more and more people get recruited to do LO'ing.

The fact of the matter is that even at the most experienced jumper friendly dzs, the tandems and students are what helps the business survive. It just works that way. If you want to enact change, be a part of the change, not someone who stands on the sidelines complaining that things never change. Who makes the vibe at the DZ? The jumpers do. . .so make it better.

________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

[WFFC 1]

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Let me break that down for you three geniuses

It's not holding water with me. One - I consider your statement a personal attack on all 3 of us - Apology expected. Two - Annonymous tips do not hold water with me. Three - your statements are leading me to believe that you yourself are adding to the negativity. Four - Frank is doing a ton of things for the experienced jumpers - or do you think he's bringing in the Otter for grins?

btw, I used to work at Mile Hi before I moved. I'm in process of building a new webite for them. I built the one currently in place for Denver Skydivers and did build one in the past for Front Range so I don't have any serious commitment to any. Also, I don't live in CO anymore but if I did, I'd probably be able to pick out who you were.

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~~~Michael

[WFFC 1]

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If you want to enact change, be a part of the change, not someone who stands on the sidelines complaining that things never change. Who makes the vibe at the DZ? The jumpers do. . .so make it better.

EXACTLY!

[ChrisL 2]

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OK scottjaco, WFFC, & happythoughts, you guys have me all figured out - I have small balls, I don't know how to perform a gear check, I think people want to murder me, no one but my mom will hang out with me, I'm trying to stir the pot, and I'm not trying to accomplish anything here. Wow, you three must be the sharpest guys on this forum.

I'm done defending myself. This is not about me, it's about the simple fact that, as of now, only 4 out of 44 votes support the notion that "The DZO is helping to improve the overall vibe at MileHi" and that they "love MileHi".

Let me break that down for you three geniuses:

That means that thus far, 90% (40 votes) of the votes are supporting the belief that:

- MileHi employees are lame, but the fun jumpers are cool

- You have to be in a "click" or be an asshole at MileHi to feel welcomed

- The DZO is contributing to this negativity

- I gave up, I refuse to jump there anymore

- MileHi is a tandem factory that doesn't care about fun jumpers or the overall vibe

Hey bro, I was defending your right to post anonymously, and I stand by that, but you are kind of heading into the personal attack area with this one.

These guys may not agree but they have as much right to express their point as you do. This IS a discussion forum isnt it?

So discuss, dont bash

__

My mighty steed

[scottjaco 0]

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- You have to be in a "click" or be an asshole at MileHi to feel welcomed

I simply can't understand the logic of the poll.

If this place is really that terrible, again, I ask why do you want to help them earn back your business?

You say that there are other dropzones in your area,
go to one of them instead.

Perhaps you could give us some specific examples of why you feel this way.

[flyangel2 2]

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btw, posting annomyously destroys ones credibility and creates the image that one just wants to stir the pot and not accomplish anything.

I'm at the point that I don't blame Stan321123 for posting anonymously. After I voiced how I felt about something, I received some e-mails that I had to just trash because of the language that was used towards me.

I understand where Stan is coming from not coming out and saying who he/she is. There just aren't that many DZs in the state of Colorado to go and jump at. Stan enjoys skydiving, but wants to vent. If he vents letting everyone know who he is, he then is at risk to not be able to continue skydiving at a DZ close to where he lives.

Every one has a right to voice how they feel. But, I do suggest that Stan have a talk with the "powers that be" out at Mile-Hi.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey