Are most people at MileHi negative?

[stuffit 0]

Lots of people have felt the same way about their dropzones when they first started jumping there. Me included. I thought all of the people in their little clicks were a bunch of dickheads. But instead of complaining, I went and took some coach jumps and did a whole shitload of solos, and then eventually started doing jumps with these people.

And the same people that I initially thought were assholes, I can now have fun jumping with them (even though some of them are still dicks).

Point being: the most important thing is that you are doing this to have fun so if you are not having fun, then either quit or sack up and do something about it.

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[Vertifly 0]

This is really not a bash, rather just some advice.

Perhaps a general discussion about VIBES at any DZ, or Clicks, or tandem factories, etc. would be more functional than this one. Why don't you drop the anonymity and start a useful discussion and ask about ways to correct the problem yourself?

[WFFC 1]

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I'm at the point that I don't blame Stan321123 for posting anonymously.

It still loses credibility in a lot of people's books. If you're gonna say something have the balls to put your name behind it or don't say it at all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that. In this case, 'no one' has expressed anything because there isn't a 'body' behind the post.

btw, this is something that should/could have been addressed first via the banter and announce lists. There's in issue here and well, this individual has decided to not do anything about it other than sling mud and not figure out what's going on.

There are other DZs around where people get a bad vibe. There's a large one here that everyone loves that I've had two nasty experiences with. The vibe sucked, the people sucked, etc. But not everyone felt that way. Was I wrong in feelig the way I did? No. It was the way I felt about the experience. If you don't like the experience, do something to change it.

btw, love ya Mar. don't always have to agree with ya, but still love ya!

[stan321123 0]

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Hey bro, I was defending your right to post anonymously, and I stand by that, but you are kind of heading into the personal attack area with this one.

These guys may not agree but they have as much right to express their point as you do. This IS a discussion forum isnt it?

So discuss, dont bash

The whole point of this thread was to provide a poll that would allow other MileHi jumpers to anonymously address their concerns regarding MileHi, and that has been accomplished. Hopefully, it will open some eyes and minds at MileHi in a positive way.

And speaking of remaining anonymous, look how many people voted that they weren't happy with MileHi's current situation, but yet they have not revealed their own identity by contributing to this thread. Like me, they don't want to be attacked like some of you have already tried to attack me, or I guess Stan321123. If this wasn't an anonymous poll, I guarantee you that not very many people would have backed me up. However, because the poll was anonymous, at this point 92% of the votes agree with my concerns regarding MileHi.

I will stop responding to this thread now, because it has already served it's purpose and is obviously beginning to lose direction. I think the poll is addressing all of our thoughts regarding this issue better than our responses to each other in this thread.

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First off, you need to identify yourself. It shows that you have balls.

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So you have "balls/nuts" but you are afraid expressing yourself openly would "bring you more harm than good"

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1)So now you are afraid people want to murder you?

2)Do you know how to perform a "Gear Check"?

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posting annomyously destroys ones credibility and creates the image that one just wants to stir the pot and not accomplish anything.

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Perhaps a better method would be to discuss it with Mom first. Mom always understood why the other kids wouldn't play with me.

I obviously was getting attacked a bit and I gave a little back. I won't apologize for having my own opinions or for defending myself when being attacked. I honestly don't feel that my comments were that inappropriate considering the comments that I was receiving.

You guys can get as pissed off at me as you'd like, but the fact still remains that the majority of the people that took part in this poll are not happy with the current situation at MileHi. Once again, that was my only intention here - to bring this issue to the attention of those that are contributing to the negativity at MileHi. Hopefully, at least one of them will see this and make a change for the better...

[flyangel2 2]

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btw, love ya Mar. don't always have to agree with ya, but still love ya!

I know, that's what makes us very close, strong friends. It would take more then what you just said to get me out of your life

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Vertifly 0]

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And speaking of remaining anonymous, look how many people voted that they weren't happy with MileHi's current situation, but yet they have not revealed their own identity by contributing to this thread.

I hate to admit it, but you've got a point.

[WFFC 1]

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I obviously was getting attacked a bit and I gave a little back. I won't apologize for having my own opinions or for defending myself when being attacked. I honestly don't feel that my comments were that inappropriate considering the comments that I was receiving.

Btw, even though you have my comments of being attacked, there was never an attack in any of my statement. Just the mere statement that hiding behind the mask give the impression that you're just wanting to stir the pot and nothing else.

So, if Mile Hi doesn't want to support the experienced jumpers, why are they bringing in an Otter for the summer? Why are they putting on a Casa boogie in June? I'm obviously missing something here and need to move back and see what it is you're missing too.

Edit to add:
78% of your options for the poll were negative responses. Like I said before, if you've got a problem, go sit down with Frank or Brad and figure it out.

[Lindsey 0]

I prob'ly shouldn't speak since I've never even been to MileHi, but I'm guessing that this thread isn't going to help the vibe there in any way....

Peace~
Lindsey

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[jriggert 0]

--edited to delete survey flaw comment--

I usually don't say much, but you got me going on this and it will probably turn into a long winded response. You had a good point when you said we could make MileHi better, but then you tore down your credibility a bit by assigning blame to the wrong people, and not offering any solutions other than "the assholes just need to realize they are wrong and change their attitude". Now we have all created some serious negative publicity for the place the poll is supposed to help?!

From all the negative responses you listed in your poll, it looks like you are listing out the different problems you see there. Here is how I would address some of these:

1) ---MileHi employees are lame, but the fun jumpers are cool---
I am not sure what you mean by lame in this context, but that word does not
characterize their general staff. Most or all of their tandem instructors and
camera guys do a great job of making sure the tandems have fun and are safe.
I think the AFF instructors do a good job with the students as well. If you
interview students after their jumps I think you will find that most have a
good experience. Most everyone I have met in manifest is friendly. They
may have an occasional bad day, but that is expected for all they have to
put up with. Packers are hired for the purpose of packing as many canopies
as they can. You can't blame them for acting preoccupied. I don't know who
the lame employees could be? If your beef is with some of the business
decisions made by the owners, it is completely unfair to blame that on the
employees.

2) ---You have to be in a "click" or be an asshole at MileHi to feel
welcomed---
Sure they have clicks, and this is probably the real issue at MileHi. There
may be some people that do not want to invest effort into teaching people
with low jump numbers and/ or skill. They would prefer to jump with more
experienced flyers. This is not unique to MileHi, that is just how some
people are. So what are some ideas on how to change this? One thing you
can't do is change the way people are - you have to find proactive people
who are interested in the cause and go from there.

3) ---The DZO is contributing to this negativity---
I don't completely understand how the business is run, but I do know it is a
rather unique situation. I don't think the true owners are a part of the
day in/ day out operations. There is an acting DZO that knows how to run
the place but the final decisions are left to the family who inherited the
DZ. The argument that the acting DZO contributes to any negativity is
absurd. If you are venting about the $1 jump ticket increase the family
decided on, well that argument doesn't hold water either. It would be great
if we only had to pay $17 per jump instead of $22, but this is a skydiving
BUSINESS. The business owner gets to decide how much they change for their
services. What have we done for the owners that they should feel obligated
to keep prices low? It's not like we have to pay them -
just drive to Brush and spend the extra money on gas instead.

4) ---I gave up, I refuse to jump there anymore---
Drive to Brush - they appreciate your business too. Move to Arizona in the
winter, and Chicago in the summer. Buy your own airplane. Find a new
hobby. Wait a few years and hope another Colorado drop zone pops up.

5) ---MileHi is a tandem factory that doesn't care about fun jumpers or the
overall vibe---
MileHi was built to make money and tandems make the most, so it makes sense
that they focus their energy on tandems. If they didn't care about fun
jumpers why do they organize balloon jumps, night jumps, CASA boogies, water
training, AFF training, etc.? I visited New Zealand a few months ago and
they truly have a tandem factory in Queenstown. No gear rental, no AFF or static line for
the locals, just tandems. I think they will take you up if there is room
and you bring your own gear, but count on a solo unless you bring a friend.

I really wish this could turn into a discussion about making a drop zone better... but it's not looking good.

JJ

[mjosparky 3]

If you don't want to identify yourself, why bother. That makes your post just so much garbage.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[stateofnature 0]

I want everyone to keep in mind that this poll reflects those jumpers that are here on DZ.Com, NOT the general populous at the DZ. If you are here typing, your not there jumping.

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Yes, everyone at MileHi is lame

Any vote for this reflects the voters true nature. When a person states that everyone else is lame they should be looking at themselves first because therein lies the common problem.

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MileHi employees are lame, but the fun jumpers are cool

Again, either all the employees are lame or not. You will find assholes in EVERY company. You will also find very experienced people that are willing to help at every corner too. This type of blanket statement really sucks, just cause the staff is overworked in the summer doesn’t make them jerks. Most Tandem Masters there have only five minutes between loads. In that time, they have to shake and take, then suit up and train their next student, so if they are not ready to engage in a 20 minute conversation please don’t be offended.

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You have to be in a "click" or be an asshole at MileHi to feel welcomed

MOST DZ’s will not give you a standing ovation. Expecially if you’re new to the DZ. YOU have to be outgoing enough to get up to groups and introduce yourself. If you hang out in the corner and wait for everyone to break routine to bring you in, especially at a big DZ, you’re delusional. Now, some smaller DZ’s will because fresh blood is nice. It is one of the benefits of small DZ’s. But it is easy to get caught up in the chaos at larger DZ’s. Get out there in be bold, you’re a skydiver damnit.

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The DZO is contributing to this negativity

You know, everyone bitched about Jeff when he was alive. Now they are bitching about Frank. Must be those tree huggin, granola bar eatin, Boulder ultra liberals cryin because they didn’t get a personal invitation from the DZO each and every morning with a thank you for being alive. Buck up kids, we’re grown ups now, the cradling ended at 28 when you moved out of your parents house.

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The DZO is helping to improve the overall vibe at MileHi

Probably, but it is secondary to making the business work. The vibes you need should be coming from within.

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I love MileHi

It’s a big DZ. It doesn’t have my loyalty because my virtues are placed in more important places in my life. It’s open, it’s fun, it’s got big planes. Don’t like it, jump somewhere else. If that is too far away, buck up.

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MileHi is as good now as it's ever going to be

No, it’s going to be WAY better with the new hanger next to the landing area. And there is a reason it is big enough to house an Otter and a King Air and a Cessna 206.

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I gave up, I refuse to jump their anymore

Good, we don’t want that pansy, give up attitude. When the going gets rough, RUNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!

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MileHi is a tandem factory that doesn't care about fun jumpers or the overall vibe

Yeah, that’s it. Mile Hi can EASILY do 90 tandems a day with just the King Air. So they got a plane that holds 9 more people because they don’t waste enough gas right? Sorry bras, but you can’t max out their tandem master output anymore. So since you can’t get any more tandems on every load, you’re just going to have to fill it up with fun jumpers. If I gave Frank any advice it would be to ditch the Otter, and keep flying the King Air. The King can make the cash and still satisfy fun jumpers. But for some reason he wants to make sure that each and every fun jumper can get up as many times as they want in a given day…must be that ‘bad’ attitude of his.

edited for personal attack.

[happythoughts 0]

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OK scottjaco, WFFC, & happythoughts, you guys have me all figured out - I have small balls

I never said you had balls, even small ones. Let's not put words in anyones mouth, especially if the word is balls.

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I think people want to murder me

You did say "I don't want to ever be on jump run wondering if someone fucked with my rig to get back at me for voicing my opinion."

What is the other interpretation of that? What would be the consequences of "someone fucked with my rig"?

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no one but my mom will hang out with me

I said I discussed things with my mom. Never mentioned yours. My mom wouldn't hang out with you. If you call my mom, don't do the anonymous "breather" stuff.

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I'm trying to stir the pot

The internet isn't new. People making anonymous malicious posts are just trolls with an agenda and get no respect from me. It's been that way for a while.

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Wow, you three must be the sharpest guys on this forum.

Recognition at last.
The "cliques" that you attack are just people jumping with their friends. They want to challenge themselves, push their limits, and do fun stuff. Why should they burn a jump ticket for you? Why don't you make some friends among the other the new people. No one is responsible for your happiness at the dz.

1. Take charge of your own life.
2. Write a letter to the dzo and sign it.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Having beer + BBQ after jumping would be good for vibes and the jumping. People would be more likely to stick arround for the end of the day instead of going home. With a late night party people would be more likely to camp out and be there for the first load.

Having load organizers with their slots covered would be good - the jumpers would get mixed up more, and we'd have more enjoyable jumps. New jumpers would have people to play with, and every one would be more likely to stick around for more loads.

Many of us would like this, and as long as there's excess lift capacity (including shutdowns between loads) I think the DZ would make more money by providing these services and getting the extra slots filled - although that's their call to make and there's no reason you can't provide the same perks yourself.

Take up a beer collection and setup a grill. Organize and cover your own slot, or chip in to take some one like D-jan up. Jump with new people like Skratch, Steve S, and big-AL do.

Or just bring your own group, jump mostly with them, and be content. You're free to make what you want out of the situation.

[ChileRelleno 0]

I have questions for you,
"Do you currently post here under another name? Did you register a separate DZ.com account in order to post anonymously?"

Just to let you know, most folks consider it improper netiquette to have nothing in your profile and more than one registered account here is very against HH's rules and will get you permanently banned from DZ.com.

Now as to your Post.
I've never had the pleasure of jumping at Mile-Hi so I can't comment or take your poll.
I've been to 70 DZ's in my travels and there's only one I'll never go back to.
I'm very extroverted and have no hesitation about busting into cliques, I've walked into many a DZ packing area and introduced myself at the top of my lungs, letting everyone know what I do, want to do, and that I need people to play with.
I know not everyone is so forward as to act in this fashion, but being a wallflower never got a dance.

Everywhere you go there are assholes, skygods and jerks...
But thankfully there are no DZ's that are nothing but such folks.

Do your part, organize all your like minded friends and jumpers into the "Welcome Committee" let no stranger go un-greeted and invited into the general group, let no newbie just off solo status go un-fellowshipped in our skydiving family, if somebody is acting the asshole skygod tell them you as a group y'all don't like it and why (i.e. It hurts the DZ's image.) then use your accumulated peer-pressure to re-enforce your views.

I could go on but your a biggirl and know what needs to be done, as previously stated be "Pro-Active". this is not really pro-active.

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[bluewaterstream 0]

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One person cannot change the overall vibe of a DZ.

Not true man, try and be a real leader and encourage good {{{ VIBES }}} all by yourself. You may actually then encourage other people to do the same. Before you know it, you'll have a bunch people encouraging good vibes individually, which may in turn change the entire vibe of Mile-Hi for the better. Bitching, complaining, & pointing the finger does not encourage good vibes, it kills them. If you hang out with a new jumper/visitor/etc. you are setting the "overall vibe" for the DZ through that person's eyes. Therefore, one person CAN change the overall vibe of a DZ on a certain level. Don't let other people determine the vibe of the DZ, be pro-active and help take control.

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I try to be as positive and as social as possible to help encourage a good vibe. I am proactive, take my word on this.

Good for you, try harder! We all should try harder. No one is perfect and there is always room for improvement. Either give up and leave, deal with it, or try harder to help make a change and encourage others to do the same. I'd recommend the 3rd choice.

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The one's that feel that if they can swoop, instruct others, or jump a camera, that they also have the right to be an asshole to those that are less experienced.

Kill them with kindness. Asshole's are everywhere, not just at Mile-Hi. They do have the right to be assholes if they want to. You can't control other people's behavior. Either try and be cool with them or just simply ignore them.

I haven't been jumping at Mile-Hi for very long, but I can totally see both sides of the story here. We have positive people and negative people. That's the yin & yang of life - it's brings balance. If things are out of balance right now, once again, work harder to bring that balance back to Mile-Hi. I have less than 40 jumps, I just recently graduated AFF and earned my A-license, and at times I have felt like somewhat of an Mile-Hi outcast - but hell, that's part of paying your dues. I've come across people at Mile-Hi that are totally good people and others that are dicks. Once again, you see this everywhere, not just at Mile-Hi. Bond with the cool people and ignore the dicks. Simple as that.

Lastly, some of these people that you think are assholes may end up actually being cool. Maybe you're misreading some of them. Maybe they're misreading you. First impressions are often wrong. I think that we all are, at times, guilty of judging people to soon. Don't give up and continue being pro-active.

[skyyhi 0]

Well-said John (bluewaterstream). . .one person can always make a difference if they want to. I am one of those that stick my foot in everywhere so I can get more involved in what is going on. Elsinore - where I jump mostly - has a great vibe. . .but it is not always hopping everytime I am there. Sometimes it is quiet and layed back, other times it is FULL of energy. Sometimes I go and I only know my instructors. . .so I make a point of going around and meeting at least 3 others minimum. I just go up, introduce myself, ask a few skydiving related questions and then move on. . .pretty soon, there is a bunch of people I know by name. I say hi and smile to them every time I see them. Now they know me and ask me to go on dives with them. It sometimes takes a while, but it works.

________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

[skymama 35]

This is a warning for everyone. I've had to do some editing to this thread. The next time the forum rules are broken, this thread will be locked.

Play nice.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[mjosparky 3]

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If you don't want to identify yourself, why bother. That makes your post just so much garbage.
Sparky

Stan (?),
Someone I have a great deal of respect for has verified, to some extent, what you are saying. While I still feel you should identify yourself when posting, I apologize for my somewhat harsh post earlier.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Amazon 7]

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This is a warning for everyone. I've had to do some editing to this thread. The next time the forum rules are broken, this thread will be locked.

Play nice.

Its ok Andrea.. some of them LIKE the spankings from momma

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Someone I have a great deal of respect for has verified, to some extent, what you are saying.

Have you been talking to Mary again?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[flyangel2 2]

Now just wait a minute. Don't drag me into this. Hell, I'm already in enough trouble with Mile Hi



To Chile Relleno:

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I could go on but your a biggirl and know what needs to be done, as previously stated be "Pro-Active". this is not really pro-active.

And that statement might get me into trouble too

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[mjosparky 3]

Now wait a minute, I resemble that remark.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[WFFC 1]

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Now just wait a minute. Don't drag me into this. Hell, I'm already in enough trouble with Mile Hi

You're only in as much trouble there as you think you are. btw, the June CO trip is up in the air. Might not get there for the Casa boogie or the wedding the end of the month.

-----
~~~Michael

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I'm already in enough trouble with Mile Hi

You're probably not in as much trouble as you think you are.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Miami 0]

Stan,
Since you are posting anonymously anyway, why not identify individuals you feel bring this negativity to the drop zone? I would certainly like to know if someone felt this way about me, and any of my co-workers. I have only been jumping at Mile-Hi for a few months now, but I have not seen this negative attitude you seem to be experiencing.

Miami