ManBird 0 #1 July 2, 2003 They say you get what you deserve when you use a packer. After a big fat Skyflyer 3 flight and tons of front risering, the last thing my arms want to do is pack. I wussed out and used a packer, and I got what I deserved: The hardest pull I've ever had. I start my deployment sequence at 4,000 feet with the S3, so I had time to deal with it. I follow altitude more than the two try rule, but that's just me. I had my eye on my altimeter and my left thumb in the reserve handle, but I finally worked the PC out and made sure to chuck it hard (critical on a WS) at 2,900. That's 1,100 feet of fighting. Seven and a half seconds of hard pull (though it still got out at a good altitude). Here's my new policy, what I recommend, and why. If I pay a packer, I take out my pilot chute and repack it myself. Pretty much any packer on any given day will give you a pack job that will open safely. Even if you get something fast or off heading, chances are, they didn't pack you a mal (yes, I know that isn't always the case), especially if you know the person packing and their abilities. However, you are used to the amount of strength you need to get your pilot chute out. Hopefully, you know how to pack it so that it will stay in in freefall, and then come out when you want it to without difficulty. To prevent hard pulls (and inversely, premature deployments), if you use a packer, at least take the ten to thirty extra seconds to pack your PC the way you want it to be packed. Even if your parachute opening isn't the greatest, at least your parachute will come out, and you won't have to take a terminal reserve ride (or rely completely on your reserve for that matter). NOTE: This is not a knock on packers at all. Many, many packers pack my parachute better than I do. I'm a crappy packer. Yet very, very few pack my PC the way I'd like it to be packed."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #2 July 2, 2003 So did you ask the packer how they had packed your pc? How was it different to your normal packing method? GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #3 July 2, 2003 Yes. He "shoved it in there"."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ruffles 0 #4 July 2, 2003 Jeepers... He really said that? I would have at least made something up that sounded better than that. / Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #5 July 2, 2003 sure, if you want it to open the way you want, pack it yourself... ;-) more seriously, I think that if you pay a packer, you deserve a good pack job... and the packer has a great responsability in the fact that you do a nice landing or just an impact, and everything in between. but 7 secs for a hard pull is long... maybe should you have gone for your reserve handle earlier ??? in french we say : on n'est jamais si bien servi que par soi-même ciel bleu to everybody---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #6 July 2, 2003 Quotebut 7 secs for a hard pull is long... maybe should you have gone for your reserve handle earlier ??? quite honestly, I'd do the same thing he did. I'll take it to my hard deck in a situation like that.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sid 1 #7 July 2, 2003 QuoteYes. He "shoved it in there". a very good friend of mine once told a novice packer to "just shove it in there" and he didn't do a handle check before leaving the plane. He only noticed the hackey missing when he went to pull, she'd shoved it in there okay, all the way inside...... if you use a packer, it's a good policy to make sure that your pilot chute will move within the pouch as part of your pre-flight gear check.Pete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #8 July 2, 2003 right, considering the altitude... there was still a good safety margin... but I was taught these emergency situations shouldn't be dealt with too long...---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmidgley 0 #9 July 2, 2003 This gives me a chance to ask a question that's been bugging me. How do you pack a hard pull? What can you possibly do to a slithery pilot chute that makes it want to stay in an elastic sock? I've tried all manner of ways (in the interest of scientific enquiry, and not for real deployment), and I can't find a hard pull. I'd love to know what to avoid. Regards John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #10 July 2, 2003 QuoteThis gives me a chance to ask a question that's been bugging me. How do you pack a hard pull? What can you possibly do to a slithery pilot chute that makes it want to stay in an elastic sock? What I did: Got a bigger (really big) PC to get my Safire to open a bit faster. This PC also has a fairly thick killine bridle. If I pack it as I packed my old PC, I might have a hard-pull. If I pack it so the bulk of material isn't at the front (elastic is tight - not too tight - because I freefly) and the folded PC is the same length as my pocket, smooooth. If I don't (or let somebody else pack and not check it myself) - the result may be a reserve ride someday. So far I have seriously thought about my reserve 2 times.... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genn 0 #11 July 2, 2003 Quote How do you pack a hard pull? What can you possibly do to a slithery pilot chute that makes it want to stay in an elastic sock?Quote A tight, new BOC pouch can do it. A bunched up pilot chute can do it. There's probably more, but I can't think of em' right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites andy2 0 #12 July 2, 2003 Ive been always taught to insure a smooth pull, kinda bang on the pilot chute once youve inserted it. This spreads it out and makes sure it will have a smooth pull rate (which I think is more important than the amount of strength it takes to get out). --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflydrew 0 #13 July 2, 2003 It's not just packing it a certain way, it's also what happens to it from the time it's packed to the time it's deployed... especially on the plane. Sometimes it so hard to pull it in freefall, but after you land, it comes out no problem! Some people want a hard pull... they know they'll be able to pull it out, and want to make sure that it's extremely unlikely that it comes out prematurely. As for avoiding a hard pull, find a pack job that works, don't change it, and be very consciounscios about your gear from the time you put it on your back until the time you exit the aircraft. -drew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 0 #14 July 2, 2003 QuoteIve been always taught to insure a smooth pull, kinda bang on the pilot chute once youve inserted it. This spreads it out and makes sure it will have a smooth pull rate (which I think is more important than the amount of strength it takes to get out). I usually do that, tho I've been cautioned once against doing it (too hard) because it's hard on the cypres/reserve (?) ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SLOfreefall 0 #15 July 2, 2003 I karate chop the hell out of the pouch once I've inserted the PC and really spread it out. Then again I don't have a Cypres, but I was warned by a guy who said that it can damage the AAD. He didn't know that I hadn't one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #16 July 2, 2003 could someone explain how a pretty minor impact (you hitting it) to the BOC can damage a cypress??____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Clownburner 0 #17 July 2, 2003 ...Especially when the main is in there between the two? For the record, I often use packers because I am 1) lazy and 2) I pack very poorly and it takes a long time. I'm still practicing to get better because I do like my own openings better though. I usually pull out the pilot chute and repack it myself, I just got into this habit after reading Brian Germain's article and deciding I wanted to use that method.7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez "I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ManBird 0 #18 July 2, 2003 Should mention that I check my hackey like crazy, and this jump was no exception. The half near the mouth of the pouch came out just fine, but the other half was bunched up. I have a 28" PC on a Wings container. Somewhat (for skydiving anyway) large PC and a somewhat small pouch (lengthwise). Packers tend to double fold the PC and leave too much hanging out. Some will take it out and triple fold it, other will shove the excess in, which is what happened here. French Canadian Fred (aka Fast Freddie) double folds and leaves it, and then calls you a pain in the ass as he takes your money. He's also a kick ass and very fast packer (no, it was not him that packed my hard pull). I get nothing but good from him, however, he was too busy with tandems at the time... damn..."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites payback462 0 #19 July 2, 2003 i used to be anal about that as well when i used to use packers. after i switched to pullout i swore off packers all together(even though most of the packers at my DZ either know how to pack pullout or jump it themselves), of course with pullout i dont have to worry about that kind of hard pull just shove the bridle in the top, the PC in the bottom, and leave the grommet hanging out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #20 July 2, 2003 i know at least two packers who want to start a movement to charge more for pullouts.. and of course they are no good for wingsuits so....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #21 July 2, 2003 Quotei know at least two packers who want to start a movement to charge more for pullouts...... A movement huh? LOL!!! I'd rather pack a pull out any day. -My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rigging65 0 #22 July 2, 2003 Quoteand of course they are no good for wingsuits so.... Actually, there are quite a few guys out there jumping pull-outs on wingsuits and having no problem what so ever with them. I'm aware of what Birdman, Inc. says about that (as are they) but it's working out just fine for them... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #23 July 2, 2003 i guess whatever works for you is cool, but i think the only way i'd consider a pullout is with a springloaded pilot chute ..i have to say there is a hell of a large burble behind me in a wingsuit...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #24 July 2, 2003 When using packers, I always set the brakes when I land and open the slider from the collapsed position for three reasons; 1. They gots lots to pack and if they can oversight the P/C, its possible to oversight the brakes and slider. 2. They love when you do that, makes it quicker for them 3. I know its been done. Then before gearing up, I do a back (starting with the P/C up to the tuck tabs), then a front check from the 3-rings down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #25 July 2, 2003 QuoteWhen using packers, I always set the brakes when I land and open the slider from the collapsed position for three reasons; 1. They gots lots to pack and if they can oversight the P/C, its possible to oversight the brakes and slider. 2. They love when you do that, makes it quicker for them 3. I know its been done. i also cock my pilot chute, just so i know that its been done, but i always ask my packer to double check me, even when she knows i do these things..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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andy2 0 #12 July 2, 2003 Ive been always taught to insure a smooth pull, kinda bang on the pilot chute once youve inserted it. This spreads it out and makes sure it will have a smooth pull rate (which I think is more important than the amount of strength it takes to get out). --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #13 July 2, 2003 It's not just packing it a certain way, it's also what happens to it from the time it's packed to the time it's deployed... especially on the plane. Sometimes it so hard to pull it in freefall, but after you land, it comes out no problem! Some people want a hard pull... they know they'll be able to pull it out, and want to make sure that it's extremely unlikely that it comes out prematurely. As for avoiding a hard pull, find a pack job that works, don't change it, and be very consciounscios about your gear from the time you put it on your back until the time you exit the aircraft. -drew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #14 July 2, 2003 QuoteIve been always taught to insure a smooth pull, kinda bang on the pilot chute once youve inserted it. This spreads it out and makes sure it will have a smooth pull rate (which I think is more important than the amount of strength it takes to get out). I usually do that, tho I've been cautioned once against doing it (too hard) because it's hard on the cypres/reserve (?) ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SLOfreefall 0 #15 July 2, 2003 I karate chop the hell out of the pouch once I've inserted the PC and really spread it out. Then again I don't have a Cypres, but I was warned by a guy who said that it can damage the AAD. He didn't know that I hadn't one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #16 July 2, 2003 could someone explain how a pretty minor impact (you hitting it) to the BOC can damage a cypress??____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clownburner 0 #17 July 2, 2003 ...Especially when the main is in there between the two? For the record, I often use packers because I am 1) lazy and 2) I pack very poorly and it takes a long time. I'm still practicing to get better because I do like my own openings better though. I usually pull out the pilot chute and repack it myself, I just got into this habit after reading Brian Germain's article and deciding I wanted to use that method.7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez "I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #18 July 2, 2003 Should mention that I check my hackey like crazy, and this jump was no exception. The half near the mouth of the pouch came out just fine, but the other half was bunched up. I have a 28" PC on a Wings container. Somewhat (for skydiving anyway) large PC and a somewhat small pouch (lengthwise). Packers tend to double fold the PC and leave too much hanging out. Some will take it out and triple fold it, other will shove the excess in, which is what happened here. French Canadian Fred (aka Fast Freddie) double folds and leaves it, and then calls you a pain in the ass as he takes your money. He's also a kick ass and very fast packer (no, it was not him that packed my hard pull). I get nothing but good from him, however, he was too busy with tandems at the time... damn..."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
payback462 0 #19 July 2, 2003 i used to be anal about that as well when i used to use packers. after i switched to pullout i swore off packers all together(even though most of the packers at my DZ either know how to pack pullout or jump it themselves), of course with pullout i dont have to worry about that kind of hard pull just shove the bridle in the top, the PC in the bottom, and leave the grommet hanging out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #20 July 2, 2003 i know at least two packers who want to start a movement to charge more for pullouts.. and of course they are no good for wingsuits so....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #21 July 2, 2003 Quotei know at least two packers who want to start a movement to charge more for pullouts...... A movement huh? LOL!!! I'd rather pack a pull out any day. -My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #22 July 2, 2003 Quoteand of course they are no good for wingsuits so.... Actually, there are quite a few guys out there jumping pull-outs on wingsuits and having no problem what so ever with them. I'm aware of what Birdman, Inc. says about that (as are they) but it's working out just fine for them... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #23 July 2, 2003 i guess whatever works for you is cool, but i think the only way i'd consider a pullout is with a springloaded pilot chute ..i have to say there is a hell of a large burble behind me in a wingsuit...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #24 July 2, 2003 When using packers, I always set the brakes when I land and open the slider from the collapsed position for three reasons; 1. They gots lots to pack and if they can oversight the P/C, its possible to oversight the brakes and slider. 2. They love when you do that, makes it quicker for them 3. I know its been done. Then before gearing up, I do a back (starting with the P/C up to the tuck tabs), then a front check from the 3-rings down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #25 July 2, 2003 QuoteWhen using packers, I always set the brakes when I land and open the slider from the collapsed position for three reasons; 1. They gots lots to pack and if they can oversight the P/C, its possible to oversight the brakes and slider. 2. They love when you do that, makes it quicker for them 3. I know its been done. i also cock my pilot chute, just so i know that its been done, but i always ask my packer to double check me, even when she knows i do these things..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
