0
GigaBuist

Shoulder seperations in freefall without impact.

Recommended Posts

I ran across this subject in Incidents but I thought I'd startup a thread in here because I'm curious about the subject as it may impact how I go about actually getting further into the sport -- I'm just a static line student now.

Anyway the chap had a bad shoulder seperate during freefall and not from impacting another object... seems it was just the force of the wind that brought it out of place.

I'm wondering if this is unheard of, or somewhat common. My left shoulder has been in and out of it's socket more times than I care to remember and it never occured to me that the wind forces during a freefall might be enough to pop the bugger back out. The only time it's been bad enough that I couldn't really move my arm much was from wrestling matches which I've assumed were much more straining on it than a freefall would be but am I possibly mistaken here?

If I put my arm out the window of a car doing 80 and cup my hand to catch air then relax my shoulder I do notice it slide a bit out, but well within limits I'm comfortable with. Heck, sitting here right now if I hold it up shaped like an L and relax it bumps forward. A little muscle tension keeps it in place though. To yank it out to where I'm not able to reach across to my right shoulder you'd have to extend my arm either sideways or out in front and torque down with about 60-80lbs of force if I remember right.... but even then there's only a 1/20 chance that it'd be bad enough to keep me from using it.

Any anecdotal evidence (or scientific if you've got it) to let me know just how likely this is to happen in the air?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
just as a note, you seem to be speaking of dislocation, not separation. a dislocation occurs when the ball is out of the socket of the shoulder joint, and a separation is a partial or complete separation of the shoulder blade and the acromial process of the clavicle. i have a few separations, and they limit my mobility a bit in an arch in my left shoulder. dont know about the dislocations, but i would think that would be a bigger pain in the ass of an injury!;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm also a newbie with only 8 jumps. I have a left shoulder that's been dislocated at least 20 times over a 30 year span. It's been good for years but knock on wood.

I never had a freefall problem (went through AFF all levels). However, 8 minuts in the Skyventure windtunnel and it was sore as hell for 3 months. An MRI revealed no damage but my bet is that it may have popped out.

Once the lousy New England weather and my work schedule get aligned I intend to start up again in earnest. I also have decided to develop a "plan" of what to do if my shoulder dislocates while jumping. This will include deployment, canopy control, what to do if I have a disclocated shoulder and a mal (!!!) and how to land with one arm incapacitated. I'll also seek the advice of as many jumpers as I can as I've read alot of incidents where shoulder dislocations occured.

One final note: physical therapy helps alot. I put mine through weight training and also find that pushups are really good for strengthening the right muscles.

Good luck. Be careful. Make a plan that covers the possibilities and stick to it. You might also think about getting it repaired. You'll lose some mobility but you won't have to worry about it. I might do the same to be safe.

Final note; talk to your JM's. Don't surprise them with your problem in freefall!!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi There,

It happens often in people who have has shoulder problems in the past, and I've never heard of it happening to someone without prior injury.

Your shoulder is most prone to dislocation with or without assistance when the elbow is above shoulder level and the thumb is facing in towards the head.

Pretty much box position.

It's most likely to pop during an aggresive move, like starting a backloop and under increased load. The students I have had on AFF with known shoulder problems all learn "Mantis" as opposed to "Box." They also start with forward loops on L6 rather than the more commom backloops. I brief dislocation procedure and single handed malfunction drills, or straight reserve pull if it's your right arm, as well as single handed canopy flight and flare for landing. (Pick up toggles from the front of the risers or they will restrict your attempt to flare.)

Be aware that if you experience a dislocation in freefall - the dive is not over. There are important things you need to do before trying to get it back into joint.

t
It's the year of the Pig.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Although I have a shoulder injury, I haven't yet had this problem.

However, a friend of mine had his shoulder come out after launching off the camera step. He was in a great deal of pain and flew a HP canopy. Luckily, he landed w/o incident. He flared with both toggles in his hand.



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mine popped out in freefall - had to pull reserve it wasn't going back in...

IMHO it isn't a good idea to jump with a shoulder that can pop out, get it fixed first.

Looking for the thread right now.

Found it...

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=466154;search_string=shoulder;#466154

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Back in the days of ripcords and early throwouts I knew an experience woman jumper who routinely (couple times a year) had her shoulder come out from free fall. It'd flail, she open with her left hand, and either get it back in and functioning under canopy or land one handed.

Yes it can and does happen routinely to people with prior shoulder dislocations.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I saw the worst and best thing ever because of this. I had just gotten out of Hospital for my broken leg (low hook) and I was thinking about giving up skydiving ect. I went to the dz and just opened my beer, when I see someone open a reserve low as hell, and spin up and spiral down at a high rate of speed until impact. It made me sick to my stomache and left the dz immediatly. The next night Im at the bar and this girl comes up to me with a sling on her arm, and asks me what happened? I told her and she told me about how the day before, she had both arms dislocate, and she couldnt pull anything, her cypress fired, and she spun up and spiraled in. Here is the good part, she was fine, and the impact actually popped her one arm in, and the other was set by a doctor. She found out at the E-Room that she has a condition and her arms can pop out easily, so she was going back to Norway to have surgery. The worse thing is I thought I saw someone go in, the best thing is she lived!! But if you have a problem with your arms dislocating, be very carefull. I also at the Turkey Boogie this year at Zhills watched a cypress save due to the same thing on the last load of the day.
Be Carefull, and for sure use a cypress.


Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wow... every reply saying that they've seen it happen and that it's common so far.

Given suggestions so far I guess the plan of action would be to let my instructors know of the situation before I begin actual freefall training and spend some extra time practicing emergency procedures in the event that I ever have that left arm go completely "dead" on me. Thankfully it's just the left arm which means my main would still be within reach and an AAD would fire if I couldn't pull the reserve with a handicapped left arm and a good right one. Not that I would could on that as a valid emergency procedure though!

Perhaps before I hit TV freefalls I should spend some time in a wind tunnel and actually put myself in positions that are likely to rip the bugger back out just to see what could happen. Any thoughts on this? Again, I'll ask my instructors their opinions too.

I'm half tempted to intentionally dislocate the thing in a severe manner just to see if I can pull a reserve with it at this point. I did manage somehow to wrestle with the thing coming in and out of socket so I imagine I could but I'd just like to make sure. Any thoughts on this? I figure if I'm able to perform the motions of a reserve pull with a dislocated shoulder under no stress and ignore the pain, and actually have that range of motion, that I'd be able to do it if my life depended on it. Granted, the stress factor means that you're less likely to do the right thing, but ability to ignore pain tends to grow exponentially with regards to your life endangerment factor.

Personally, the surgery option just isn't something I'd be willing to do right now, though I may consider it in the future. I'm only 23 and doing surgery on something that I did to myself when I was 17 seems extreme. On top of that I got a guy (basically a stranger -- a coworker of a friend) that's waiting on a kidney and I'm #2 in line for testing on donating one. If I hit surgery for this I'd imagine it would pretty much take me out of the donation picture for a while for his and my own safety and I'm not going to do that to the guy over a shoulder. Besides, even if I do fix the left one's damage, there's still the change the right one would go fubar in the future and leave me learning stuff later on that I might as well have learned earlier on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
years ago, we were jumping from a Britan Islander at 12,500 ft. It was just getting dark. There were about 10 jumpers, and no serious RW was planned. Two guys hooked up, and one took the other guys arms, and dislocated one of his shoulders. He indicated he was having pain problems, and when he opened his chute it REALLY hurt. On the same jump,my feet had just glanced of the very top branches of a 60 ft pine tree, and that was enough to get my canopy to collapse. I fell the last 60 feet, bouncing from branch to branch through the closely packed pines. I landed flat on my back, and my front mount reserve wanted to go right throughme, and the combination broke a vertabrae, almost to the spinal cord.
The guy who had his shoulder dislocated, managed to have a guy pull on his arm, and release it back into the socket.
They told me they had called an ambulance for me. That word triggered a reaction ( I dont like ambulances) and I told a jumper stnding nearby to take my right hand and pull me up. First he refused, and I bellowed at him to just doit. He did, and I canme up like a stiff board. I told the guys, "lets get out of here" and walked out to the car. My face was gouged up b the branches with blood flowing. I got to the car, and carefull slipped behind the wheel, and drove home. It was painful, but it healed. Later (about 2 months) I had an xray, and the doctor examined the photos, and asked an intern what he would recommend. The intern sugested this and that, and the Specialist said WHY?, he stands like a pine tree, just tell him to take things easy, an he'll be okay. I never had a problem with that vertebrae after that.
Apparently, there are quite a few jumpers who dislocate elbows, shoulders etc very easily. It can be extremely painful, and if you know you have that possibility, rest assured, it will likely happen when you least expect it. Good luck anyhow. Bill Cole




Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DO NOT DISLOCATE A SHOULDER INtENTIONALLY!

Each time you do so it will get worse. Although I have not had the surgery, many friends (and my daughter) have. It's not bad. Here in the US it's now day surgery. Recovery and restoration take 10 weeks. After that you're good to go. Slight loss of motion in some cases but no big deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My left shoulder dislocated on exit out of DC-3 on 40 way (everything left the airplane but my left shoulder--ouch). After that, I started experiencing repeated dislocations, when it popped out when I rolled over in bed I said "enough is enough". 11 weeks after surgery (full open Bankart Lesion) I was doing competition 20 way, pulling the piece. I have 100% recovery and strength. Get the surgery done if you are in this sort of situation and skydiving is important to you. Also do pushups (NOT pull ups) as preventative and post-operative strength measurements. I can sit fly, freefly, dive, and do four way now. No drama. I wore a brace for a while but found it way too constricting to consider as a full time option. The surgery worked for me. Your mileage may vary.

blues
k8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
" I'm only 23 and doing surgery on something that I did to myself when I was 17 seems extreme. "

Thats a terrible way to think about it. Period. I messed myself up bad when I was 17 and only when I was 21 did the problem resurface. It can get costly and the more you mess with your shoulder the worse it WILL get.

Good luck and make all aware of your problem when getting on a load with you. I'd personally bow out from jumping with someone if they had the same problems I had.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0