BMFin 0 #1 June 12, 2003 Due to a late incident in Finland, the authorities have decided to ban soft reserve ripcords. (for now on). I do not feel quite the same about this one. I think soft reserve ripcord improves my safety in the air, and now its not allowed. Are they soon going to ban soft cutaway handles too ? Anyone who has soft ripcord, what would you do if it was suddenly banned by the FAA or by some other authority ? Would you write a letter to the FAA about the matter etc. or would you just quickly change your handle to a metal one and continue like nothing had happened ? Opinions please ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #2 June 12, 2003 how much bullshit is that? why not ban canopies as well to stop people hooking in?____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #3 June 12, 2003 i'd definetly write a letter (or two) to the FAA if that would happen. it's the stupidest thing i've heard. exactly like you said, why don't they ban soft cutaways too. And how can soft cutaway ripcord be less safe than metal. i see it safer than metal??? What was the incident that caused that anyway? "George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerry81 10 #4 June 12, 2003 Apparently, the girl that died in Finland recently had a soft reserve handle and couldn't pull it because the velcro held it in too well. If this is true (first report in Incidents was that she appeared to be unconscious after cutting away) it could very well be a faulty design and not something inherent to all soft reserve handles. It definitely calls for further investigation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Watcher 0 #5 June 12, 2003 QuoteAnyone who has soft ripcord, what would you do if it was suddenly banned by the FAA or by some other authority ? I personally would be happy. I replaced my softie with a very low profile metal handle, its the same size as a pillow, but much easier to use, and it stays in place and cannot get tucked in beside my side like a pillow reserve unless the harness is horribly twisted. --Jonathan Bartlett D-24876 AFF-I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #6 June 12, 2003 QuoteWhat was the incident that caused that anyway? It was a good friend of mine from our DZ. All I know about the incident for fact so far is she never opened her reserve. I dont want to start speculating what would be the reason for the incident. Fact is that a good friend is now gone. I have all respect for her, but I still dont belive this solution is the right one. What if she would have had a D-ring ? Would the D-ring be banned then also ? What about when a D-ring causes a premature reserve deployment ? Will it be banned then too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #7 June 12, 2003 Silly question: what is the difference between the soft and hard ripcord? Ive used several different equipment, all but one had a metal handle and metalic cord. The excetional system was Talka, it has a red reserve cut-away pillow and a yellow reserve pillow with metalic cord. phoenix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #8 June 12, 2003 the difference is the handle. metal - easy to pull in an emergency , but could get snagged and be pulled by accident causing an unwanted reserve deployment. soft pillow - safer in general, but could be harder to pull when really needed (need to grab and hold instead of being able to pull with one or two fingers.) O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #9 June 12, 2003 Quote couldn't pull it because the velcro held it in too well Exactly why I peel it up, THEN punch it down ____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #10 June 12, 2003 Quotethe difference is the handle. soft pillow - safer in general, but could be harder to pull when really needed (need to grab and hold instead of being able to pull with one or two fingers.) yeah, if you dont mix it with the cutaway pillow. It can happen with a student. Safe landings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleBadger 0 #11 June 12, 2003 Quotecouldn't pull it because the velcro held it in too well. Quote Wouldn't this also apply to the cutaway handle since the methods of fixing the soft cutaway pad to the harness is the same as that holding the soft reserve pad to the harness? how come it is ok to have a soft cutaway pad but not one for your reserve? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,393 #12 June 12, 2003 >how come it is ok to have a soft cutaway pad but not one for your >reserve? Because: a) you may get hit hard, and need to get something out quickly while barely conscious. This happened to a friend of mine. She could not get to her main and could barely get to her reserve. She could never have gotten a soft handle pulled; fortunately she had a hard one. b) for newer jumpers, having two completely different handles is an advantage; it's harder to screw up. And for people like me (somewhat dyslexic) it's a big advantage. That's an argument for two different handles, not neccessarily one hard and one soft, just two different ones. The soft handle just happens to fit that bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,393 #13 June 12, 2003 >And how can soft cutaway ripcord be less safe than metal. i see it >safer than metal??? A hard handle is easier to locate and easier to pull. It is more difficult to accidentally fold it under your harness. During a hard pull, you can apply more force to a hard handle than a soft one. For AFF students, it is easier for the reserve side JM to pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,393 #14 June 12, 2003 >What about when a D-ring causes a premature reserve deployment ? >Will it be banned then too. A premature reserve deployment is better than no reserve deployment. One is survivable, the other is not. I think the jumper should still have the choice, as long as the soft handle meets all the requirements of the certifying agency (in the US, that would be the military TSO the rig is certified to.) But there are still some advantages to having a hard reserve handle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #15 June 12, 2003 I like the idea of a soft handle, but I'm still using the hard one as I've yet to cutaway (nor have I had the need to ... knock on wood). So I don't know how I'll react and because of that, I'd prefer to have the hard handle installed until I know what I'll do in the air. Of course while I know I shouldn't be relying on a cypres, one of the reasons why I don't use an RSL (and believe me there are many more reasons why I don't use one) is because I have this cypres device as a backup and I would think the same thing could apply to the soft handle. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #16 June 12, 2003 QuoteDue to a late incident in Finland, the authorities have decided to ban soft reserve ripcords. (for now on). Anyone who has soft ripcord, what would you do if it was suddenly banned by the FAA or by some other authority ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would ask my rigger to order a metal ripcord handle for me and install it at the next repack. This advice comes from someone who has never owned a soft ripcord handle and never really liked the soft ripcord handle on Vector I Tandems. Part of my problem with soft ripcord handles is poor grip strength on cold days (frostbitten too many times on Canadian Army camping trips). My other logic for sticking with metal ripcord handles is that a skydive went to sh*t in 1979. I pulled a silver handle and lived. End of discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #17 June 12, 2003 Just out of interest, how does this affect visiting jumpers with soft handles?____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites falxori 0 #18 June 12, 2003 Quote Just out of interest, how does this affect visiting jumpers with soft handles? i guess the same as visitng a DZ the requires an AAD. or any other local demands. when in rome... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkySlut 0 #19 June 12, 2003 I am not sure about that one...if you are from a country that allows longer repack cycles than the 120 that the US has...you can still jump your rig in the states, but only that person can jump it. Also, many European countries dont require a seal. That is also ok in the states, but again...only that person can jump it. Very good question though Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #20 June 12, 2003 I was thinking the same thing ...____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikeat10500 9 #21 June 12, 2003 QuoteDue to a late incident in Finland, the authorities have decided to ban soft reserve ripcords. (for now on). I do not feel quite the same about this one. I think soft reserve ripcord improves my safety in the air, and now its not allowed. Are they soon going to ban soft cutaway handles too ? See that's what scares me. I like the metal handle,but I don't care what system you chose to go with. I don't want to jump a square reserve or toss away money on an AAD. That's just me and my situation. So regulate students and inform experienced jumpers! Some people may have a good reason for a soft reserve handle. Next thing you know, they will ban pull-outs,collapsible pilot chutes,tinted goggles,chewing gum,etc. Quote Anyone who has soft ripcord, what would you do if it was suddenly banned by the FAA or by some other authority ? Would you write a letter to the FAA about the matter etc. or would you just quickly change your handle to a metal one and continue like nothing had happened ? Opinions please ! I live in Canada...up here...gravity rules! ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #22 June 12, 2003 Quote So regulate students and inform experienced jumpers! Some people may have a good reason for a soft reserve handle. Next thing you know, they will ban pull-outs,collapsible pilot chutes,tinted goggles,chewing gum,etc. amen.. i wish more people would apply that reasoning to more issues...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BMFin 0 #23 June 13, 2003 Quote A hard handle is easier to locate and easier to pull. Why would it be easier to locate? Maby its a bit easier to pull, but lets remember thats not always a good thing when you are doing headdown at 9k. Quote It is more difficult to accidentally fold it under your harness. I cannot get my handles folded under in my rig even if I wanted to. There are a lot of different soft handles. Good ones and bad ones. Quote During a hard pull, you can apply more force to a hard handle than a soft one. First peal, then Pull ! (makes a huge difference) Quote For AFF students, it is easier for the reserve side JM to pull. This might be true. Maby its better to keep D-rings on AFF rigs. Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,393 #24 June 13, 2003 >Why would it be easier to locate? a) A red handle disappears against a red jumpsuit. There are no (well, almost no) chrome jumpsuits. b) A hard handle is easier to find with gloves if you can't see it; it feels very different than the fabric of your jumpsuit/mudflap/main lift web. >There are a lot of different soft handles. Good ones and bad ones. I agree. There are no "bad" (in that way) hard handles though. >First peal, then Pull ! (makes a huge difference) Even so. Which is easier to hang from, a metal handle or a piece of stuffed fabric? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites johnny1488 1 #25 June 13, 2003 Would a cypres have saved here? If so should that be manditory? I am a firm believer that we are the masters of our destiny and we should make our gear choices. Force information about gear and safety down our throats, fine but dont hold my hand. Given the proper information I think we would all make safe gear choices. Get people in a safety harness and make them pull the handles to see if they can. Banning the handles wont bring this girl back. Lets find a way to keep it from happening again. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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billvon 2,393 #12 June 12, 2003 >how come it is ok to have a soft cutaway pad but not one for your >reserve? Because: a) you may get hit hard, and need to get something out quickly while barely conscious. This happened to a friend of mine. She could not get to her main and could barely get to her reserve. She could never have gotten a soft handle pulled; fortunately she had a hard one. b) for newer jumpers, having two completely different handles is an advantage; it's harder to screw up. And for people like me (somewhat dyslexic) it's a big advantage. That's an argument for two different handles, not neccessarily one hard and one soft, just two different ones. The soft handle just happens to fit that bill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,393 #13 June 12, 2003 >And how can soft cutaway ripcord be less safe than metal. i see it >safer than metal??? A hard handle is easier to locate and easier to pull. It is more difficult to accidentally fold it under your harness. During a hard pull, you can apply more force to a hard handle than a soft one. For AFF students, it is easier for the reserve side JM to pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,393 #14 June 12, 2003 >What about when a D-ring causes a premature reserve deployment ? >Will it be banned then too. A premature reserve deployment is better than no reserve deployment. One is survivable, the other is not. I think the jumper should still have the choice, as long as the soft handle meets all the requirements of the certifying agency (in the US, that would be the military TSO the rig is certified to.) But there are still some advantages to having a hard reserve handle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #15 June 12, 2003 I like the idea of a soft handle, but I'm still using the hard one as I've yet to cutaway (nor have I had the need to ... knock on wood). So I don't know how I'll react and because of that, I'd prefer to have the hard handle installed until I know what I'll do in the air. Of course while I know I shouldn't be relying on a cypres, one of the reasons why I don't use an RSL (and believe me there are many more reasons why I don't use one) is because I have this cypres device as a backup and I would think the same thing could apply to the soft handle. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #16 June 12, 2003 QuoteDue to a late incident in Finland, the authorities have decided to ban soft reserve ripcords. (for now on). Anyone who has soft ripcord, what would you do if it was suddenly banned by the FAA or by some other authority ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would ask my rigger to order a metal ripcord handle for me and install it at the next repack. This advice comes from someone who has never owned a soft ripcord handle and never really liked the soft ripcord handle on Vector I Tandems. Part of my problem with soft ripcord handles is poor grip strength on cold days (frostbitten too many times on Canadian Army camping trips). My other logic for sticking with metal ripcord handles is that a skydive went to sh*t in 1979. I pulled a silver handle and lived. End of discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #17 June 12, 2003 Just out of interest, how does this affect visiting jumpers with soft handles?____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites falxori 0 #18 June 12, 2003 Quote Just out of interest, how does this affect visiting jumpers with soft handles? i guess the same as visitng a DZ the requires an AAD. or any other local demands. when in rome... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkySlut 0 #19 June 12, 2003 I am not sure about that one...if you are from a country that allows longer repack cycles than the 120 that the US has...you can still jump your rig in the states, but only that person can jump it. Also, many European countries dont require a seal. That is also ok in the states, but again...only that person can jump it. Very good question though Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #20 June 12, 2003 I was thinking the same thing ...____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikeat10500 9 #21 June 12, 2003 QuoteDue to a late incident in Finland, the authorities have decided to ban soft reserve ripcords. (for now on). I do not feel quite the same about this one. I think soft reserve ripcord improves my safety in the air, and now its not allowed. Are they soon going to ban soft cutaway handles too ? See that's what scares me. I like the metal handle,but I don't care what system you chose to go with. I don't want to jump a square reserve or toss away money on an AAD. That's just me and my situation. So regulate students and inform experienced jumpers! Some people may have a good reason for a soft reserve handle. Next thing you know, they will ban pull-outs,collapsible pilot chutes,tinted goggles,chewing gum,etc. Quote Anyone who has soft ripcord, what would you do if it was suddenly banned by the FAA or by some other authority ? Would you write a letter to the FAA about the matter etc. or would you just quickly change your handle to a metal one and continue like nothing had happened ? Opinions please ! I live in Canada...up here...gravity rules! ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #22 June 12, 2003 Quote So regulate students and inform experienced jumpers! Some people may have a good reason for a soft reserve handle. Next thing you know, they will ban pull-outs,collapsible pilot chutes,tinted goggles,chewing gum,etc. amen.. i wish more people would apply that reasoning to more issues...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BMFin 0 #23 June 13, 2003 Quote A hard handle is easier to locate and easier to pull. Why would it be easier to locate? Maby its a bit easier to pull, but lets remember thats not always a good thing when you are doing headdown at 9k. Quote It is more difficult to accidentally fold it under your harness. I cannot get my handles folded under in my rig even if I wanted to. There are a lot of different soft handles. Good ones and bad ones. Quote During a hard pull, you can apply more force to a hard handle than a soft one. First peal, then Pull ! (makes a huge difference) Quote For AFF students, it is easier for the reserve side JM to pull. This might be true. Maby its better to keep D-rings on AFF rigs. Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,393 #24 June 13, 2003 >Why would it be easier to locate? a) A red handle disappears against a red jumpsuit. There are no (well, almost no) chrome jumpsuits. b) A hard handle is easier to find with gloves if you can't see it; it feels very different than the fabric of your jumpsuit/mudflap/main lift web. >There are a lot of different soft handles. Good ones and bad ones. I agree. There are no "bad" (in that way) hard handles though. >First peal, then Pull ! (makes a huge difference) Even so. Which is easier to hang from, a metal handle or a piece of stuffed fabric? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites johnny1488 1 #25 June 13, 2003 Would a cypres have saved here? If so should that be manditory? I am a firm believer that we are the masters of our destiny and we should make our gear choices. Force information about gear and safety down our throats, fine but dont hold my hand. Given the proper information I think we would all make safe gear choices. Get people in a safety harness and make them pull the handles to see if they can. Banning the handles wont bring this girl back. Lets find a way to keep it from happening again. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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SkydiveMonkey 0 #17 June 12, 2003 Just out of interest, how does this affect visiting jumpers with soft handles?____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #18 June 12, 2003 Quote Just out of interest, how does this affect visiting jumpers with soft handles? i guess the same as visitng a DZ the requires an AAD. or any other local demands. when in rome... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #19 June 12, 2003 I am not sure about that one...if you are from a country that allows longer repack cycles than the 120 that the US has...you can still jump your rig in the states, but only that person can jump it. Also, many European countries dont require a seal. That is also ok in the states, but again...only that person can jump it. Very good question though Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #20 June 12, 2003 I was thinking the same thing ...____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 9 #21 June 12, 2003 QuoteDue to a late incident in Finland, the authorities have decided to ban soft reserve ripcords. (for now on). I do not feel quite the same about this one. I think soft reserve ripcord improves my safety in the air, and now its not allowed. Are they soon going to ban soft cutaway handles too ? See that's what scares me. I like the metal handle,but I don't care what system you chose to go with. I don't want to jump a square reserve or toss away money on an AAD. That's just me and my situation. So regulate students and inform experienced jumpers! Some people may have a good reason for a soft reserve handle. Next thing you know, they will ban pull-outs,collapsible pilot chutes,tinted goggles,chewing gum,etc. Quote Anyone who has soft ripcord, what would you do if it was suddenly banned by the FAA or by some other authority ? Would you write a letter to the FAA about the matter etc. or would you just quickly change your handle to a metal one and continue like nothing had happened ? Opinions please ! I live in Canada...up here...gravity rules! ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #22 June 12, 2003 Quote So regulate students and inform experienced jumpers! Some people may have a good reason for a soft reserve handle. Next thing you know, they will ban pull-outs,collapsible pilot chutes,tinted goggles,chewing gum,etc. amen.. i wish more people would apply that reasoning to more issues...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #23 June 13, 2003 Quote A hard handle is easier to locate and easier to pull. Why would it be easier to locate? Maby its a bit easier to pull, but lets remember thats not always a good thing when you are doing headdown at 9k. Quote It is more difficult to accidentally fold it under your harness. I cannot get my handles folded under in my rig even if I wanted to. There are a lot of different soft handles. Good ones and bad ones. Quote During a hard pull, you can apply more force to a hard handle than a soft one. First peal, then Pull ! (makes a huge difference) Quote For AFF students, it is easier for the reserve side JM to pull. This might be true. Maby its better to keep D-rings on AFF rigs. Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,393 #24 June 13, 2003 >Why would it be easier to locate? a) A red handle disappears against a red jumpsuit. There are no (well, almost no) chrome jumpsuits. b) A hard handle is easier to find with gloves if you can't see it; it feels very different than the fabric of your jumpsuit/mudflap/main lift web. >There are a lot of different soft handles. Good ones and bad ones. I agree. There are no "bad" (in that way) hard handles though. >First peal, then Pull ! (makes a huge difference) Even so. Which is easier to hang from, a metal handle or a piece of stuffed fabric? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites johnny1488 1 #25 June 13, 2003 Would a cypres have saved here? If so should that be manditory? I am a firm believer that we are the masters of our destiny and we should make our gear choices. Force information about gear and safety down our throats, fine but dont hold my hand. Given the proper information I think we would all make safe gear choices. Get people in a safety harness and make them pull the handles to see if they can. Banning the handles wont bring this girl back. Lets find a way to keep it from happening again. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
billvon 2,393 #24 June 13, 2003 >Why would it be easier to locate? a) A red handle disappears against a red jumpsuit. There are no (well, almost no) chrome jumpsuits. b) A hard handle is easier to find with gloves if you can't see it; it feels very different than the fabric of your jumpsuit/mudflap/main lift web. >There are a lot of different soft handles. Good ones and bad ones. I agree. There are no "bad" (in that way) hard handles though. >First peal, then Pull ! (makes a huge difference) Even so. Which is easier to hang from, a metal handle or a piece of stuffed fabric? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #25 June 13, 2003 Would a cypres have saved here? If so should that be manditory? I am a firm believer that we are the masters of our destiny and we should make our gear choices. Force information about gear and safety down our throats, fine but dont hold my hand. Given the proper information I think we would all make safe gear choices. Get people in a safety harness and make them pull the handles to see if they can. Banning the handles wont bring this girl back. Lets find a way to keep it from happening again. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
