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wicodefly

Pilot Chute gets wrapped around your arm or leg

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Hello,

Apologies if I use the wrong terminology, I'm very new to this. Also, I did search around but did not find an answer to this.

I've heard conflicting advice at my DZ as to what to do if your main's pilot chute gets wrapped around your arm, leg, neck, etc. (I've had a few unstable deployments and will be doing barrel rolls next...).

The first is advice was to try to shake it off or unwrap it. Obviously there is only so much alititude to do that for.

So if I'm getting to my decision altitude do I cut away the main (student rig has an RSL, but they taught me to always cut away main and pull reserve handle) and then pull the reserve? That's the emergency procedure I've been taught for everything.

However, one of the more experienced instructors said this could rip your arm/leg off. But didn't provide more advice :)

I spoke with another instructor (who I've jumped with a few times) who said it might be a better idea to just pull the reserve.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on pros/cons of the choices or if you have different advice.

I don't (am not allowed) to carry a hook knife or anything like that at this point. I'm on AFF level 7.


Thanks in advance.
Chance favors the prepared mind.

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I did that on my first demo. Exited on a hop n pop and threw out on my back and the bridal went between my legs. I just flailed, screamed like a girl, flipped over bringing a leg over the bridal and it worked. Had it tied around my leg I probably would have went straight to silver and tried to contain the mess on my legs. But that's what I think I wouldve done. Situations can always change in very small ways that would call for different actions.

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I doubt there is a “once size fits all” good answer. I have had the bridal against my arm and my leg a few times but never around it. It happened most often when I was jumping in shorts and a tee-shirt (not my usual suit), and when I was in a hurry or not paying good attention.

Learn to get stable, be stable, stay stable, and be ready to pitch when it is time to pitch, so you will have no reason to hurry. I know you are in your training where you are not sure what might happen and want to be ready, just in case. Your “recovery from instability” jumps should help you, but continue to work to be able to snap into a stable deployment position quickly and you will be ahead of the game. Prevention.
Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

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Please immediately stop trying to get answers to emergencies on the internet. It may get you killed or seriously injured. There are very good reasons that you have been trained the way you were. Once you build some experience, feel free to question all you like. For now, follow the procedures and continue to learn. These are questions for your instructors. If someone is telling you something different than your instructors, they are irresponsible. Seriously. :|

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

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Deisel

Please immediately stop trying to get answers to emergencies on the internet. It may get you killed or seriously injured. There are very good reasons that you have been trained the way you were. Once you build some experience, feel free to question all you like. For now, follow the procedures and continue to learn. These are questions for your instructors. If someone is telling you something different than your instructors, they are irresponsible. Seriously. :|



Makes sense. I have been on the Internet a long time and take everything with a grain of salt to be sure.

I will seek clarification from the more experienced instructors at the DZ. and at least for now I have been practicing the heck out of the emergency procedures they have given me. My only hesitation is I'd rather not lose an arm if it's preventable :)

Thanks!
Chance favors the prepared mind.

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Deisel

Please immediately stop trying to get answers to emergencies on the internet. It may get you killed or seriously injured. There are very good reasons that you have been trained the way you were. Once you build some experience, feel free to question all you like. For now, follow the procedures and continue to learn. These are questions for your instructors. If someone is telling you something different than your instructors, they are irresponsible. Seriously. :|



Already covered :)
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1448166;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

This is a forum for discussion. Good to remind people that this is not instructor advice, though. But no reason not to open it up for discussion.
Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

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Learning how to not end up in that situation to begin with would be a better way to spend your free time IMO.

Maintain your gear properly and don't do stupid shit.

The answer is generally going to be "it depends" but regardless of what's going on you have the rest of your life to sort it out until the ground or your AAD decides for you giving you a fresh set of problems (or no more problems, ever).

Don't complicate your EPs... just practice them now. Humming it down while dicking with a hook knife or playing untangle the xmas lights will probably result in an honorable mention in Parachutist magazine for all the wrong reasons.
NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

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julius

Work on your stability. Should your AFF instructors be letting you go if you cant pull and maintain stability?



I meant that I was unstable early on. Had to repeat level 3 a few times and level 4. I have made progress in stability since then. Last 5 of 6 jumps have been stable and today I passed levels 7 and 8 in one try and stability felt great.. It was awesome!

I've been working on my form mentally, in the gym (back extension machine for practicing arches and visualizing), and in the swimming pool.

I hear you guys though. Work on the fundamentals, get stable, and stick to the advice I get from my instructors. They do give slightly conflicting advice at times, but I understand.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts!
Chance favors the prepared mind.

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Quote

I've had a few unstable deployments and will be doing barrel rolls next...).



As previously mentioned, stop working on anything else if you cannot reliably maintain stability at, and though, pull time. Rigs are meant to be deployed in a certain orientation, and you will drastically increase your odds for a malfunction (not counting getting your bridle wrapped around an arm or leg) if you cannot hold the rig square and steady during that process.

A note on the above - you do not have to mindlessly advance through your AFF jumps 'just because'. If you feel that you need more work on any skill, just speak up and ask to make another jump to work on that.

In terms of what to do if your bridle gets wrapped around your arm or leg, pointing that appendage up and trying to shake the bridle off is the standard answer. Two tries, two seconds is the standard time frame for you to work within.

In terms of what handles to pull if you cannot clear the entanglement, opinions vary so all I can say is to ask your instructor. If you are getting different answers from different members of the staff, seek out the drop zone owner, chief instructor, or safety & training advisor, and explain the situation to them and ask them for a 'final' answer.

Once you have a license, you may want to re-visit the idea of what handles to pull in the case of a closed container malfunction, but while still in the student program at your DZ, the best bet is to follow what they tell you.

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wicodefly

...one of the more experienced instructors said this could rip your arm/leg off.



I think the instructor needs to go back to gear school.

If your pilot chute or bridal is firmly attached to you AND your main container is closed, nothing is going to rip off anything whether you have cut away or not. Pulling your reserve ripcord does nothing more than deploy the reserve in ANY circumstance. Having an RSL will make no difference and neither will cutting away or not cutting away as long as your main container is closed.

Understand this. An RSL pulls the reserve pin if you cutaway the main (and ONLY if the main is out so it can jettison), but an RSL DOES NOT deploy or cut away the main when you deploy the reserve.

What the instructor may have meant is that if you cut away and the main container somehow opens while the pilot chute is entangled, the main may leave as designed and that could indeed be a problem because of the entanglement. However, if the main container comes open and you haven't cut away, you may end up with a horse shoe malfunction which will still create the drag that the instructor was warning you about.

Without some specific conversation there's no way for me to know what your true understanding of your gear is, but please take this advice. Learn and understand EXACTLY and COMPLETELY how your gear works. Understand what makes what happen, and what DOESN'T make things happen. There have been deaths caused by an incomplete understanding of equipment function, even including a highly experienced jumper who bought an RSL-equipped rig for the first time in his career.

Understanding gear is a lot more than understanding 3 handles.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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chuckakers



Without some specific conversation there's no way for me to know what your true understanding of your gear is, but please take this advice. Learn and understand EXACTLY and COMPLETELY how your gear works. Understand what makes what happen, and what DOESN'T make things happen. There have been deaths caused by an incomplete understanding of equipment function, even including a highly experienced jumper who bought an RSL-equipped rig for the first time in his career.

Understanding gear is a lot more than understanding 3 handles.



Great advice, thank you. It's exactly what I'm trying to do.

I'd love to have a rig to take completely apart and put together a few times.

I've been trying to absorb as much knowledge as possible. Reading the SIM, my AFF manual, watching packing at the DZ, watching packing and rig videos, and asking lots of questions at the DZ. I was also reading the latest FAA riggers handbook to start understanding how rigs work. And of course reading through the wealth of knowledge here!

I've read the many of the USPA and other accident reports to try to learn about the most common problems.

I have an engineering background (mostly systems not mechanical), but I'm loving learning this stuff.

One of the things we study in my profession is how one event (neutral, mistaken, sometimes seemingly insignificant, etc.) can snowball into a series of events to create a catastrophic situation. For example Air France 447. How the pilot in command didn't hand over command to one of the two co-pilots which led to lack of knowing who was in charge, which led to misunderstandings, which led to dual inputs, etc., etc. until they flew the aircraft into the ocean. There are so many examples like that.

From the USPA reports I've read (and some of the other accident reports) it seems similar things happen in skydiving accidents/incidents. So the advice to "not get there in the first place" is good advice. However, there is no perfect person, system, procedure, company, etc. It simply doesn't exist.

At the same time, I understand that I'm a total newbie and I will heed the advice of my instructors at my DZ. They've kept students there safe and I know I'm in great hands. The last few jumps things have really started to click for me and it's been sooooo much fun!

Once I'm licensed I'll continue to learn and have fun.

Quotes that come to mind are:

“Diligence is the mother of good luck.“ – Benjamin Franklin
and my favorite: “Chance favors the prepared mind.“ – Louis Pasteur

Thanks and blue skies!
Chance favors the prepared mind.

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