gale 0 #1 July 31, 2003 I was just wondering... What could happen if an unrated person takes up a tandem and something goes wrong? Be it a twisted ankle on landing, or worse... (I'm in Canada if that matters.) Lawsuits, CSPA stuff, dz responsibility... Seems like tandem ratings are complex (issued by the manuafacturer IIRC) so I'm just curious if anyone knows. GaleI'm drowning...so come inside Welcome to my...dirty mind Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 16 #2 July 31, 2003 Well.. you have to be under the supervision of an examiner to take up experienced jumpers to earn the rating, but you don't have the rating yet at that point. All TM's did a few jumps with out an actual rating while in their probatitionary peroid and stuff.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 July 31, 2003 Yeah, and riggers in training pack reserves before they have their riggers ticket. The point is, they're both things you have to actually participate in to eventually get your rating/ticket. That's why, under the supervision of the I/E, TMs take C licensed jumpers up for the first few jumps. To show the ability to perform how the TM has to perform.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gale 0 #4 July 31, 2003 But are you allowed to take up paying customer's with the Tandem Examiner there? Or do you need the actual rating for that. (That's the question, sorry if it wasn't clear.) GaleI'm drowning...so come inside Welcome to my...dirty mind Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 July 31, 2003 Nope, can't take paying customers until you atleast reach a certain point in your probationary perioud. And I think its different for different tandem rigs (each manufacture has a different rating structure). Even though it was only a couple months ago, I'll be damned if I can remember the exact number of jumps you have to do with a C-licensed jumper first, but its quite a few, before you can take a paying customer. Someone not being rated doing tandems is scary, if they understood the risks being a TM (if they read the tandem fatalities), then they'd probably stay away until they were properly trained.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TXSkydancer 0 #6 August 1, 2003 It's 10 jumps with a licensed skydiver. I got my Strong rating and USPA rating a little over 2 years ago. You have to be certified by the manufacturer to even jump their equipment. Anyone doing tandems without that certification is opening themselves and any DZ that lets them do it to law suits. USPA tandem program ratings are not mandatory but the tandem master has to have a current USPA license. We were lucky enough to have an instructor who did the course and then followed up with the USPA course the same weekend.Blue Skies and Safe Landings! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TXSkydancer 0 #7 August 1, 2003 Our DZO didn't allow us to take paying customers until after we had completed our 10 with experienced skydivers.Blue Skies and Safe Landings! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #8 August 1, 2003 QuoteWhat could happen if an unrated person takes up a tandem and something goes wrong? Be it a twisted ankle on landing, or worse... It's been done and the results were not good. I'm going from memory here so specific details might be incorrect. Around the early or mid 1990's there was a guy that took a passenger on a tandem. I do not remember the details of the 'problem' but the passenger died from the landing. The TM suffered injuries too, but recovered. This happen at a small central CA DZ (Arvin?- IIRC). The family of the deceased sued EVERYONE! eg: the TM, the tandem rig owner, the pilot, the DZ, USPA, the tandem Mfg (Strong) etc The TM was NOT rated by Strong - even though he used a Strong tandem rig. I believe he did have a RWS tandem rating (or did have one at one time). This was when the FAA wavier was still in effect. There was no USPA tandem rating. USPA also had TMMI (aka student insurance) at the time. Months & months go by with all parties spending TONS of money to 'get out' of the case. USPA's insurance company 'paid off' even at the request of the organization NOT to do this. This made it even harder for Strong to show that they were not responsible for this accident. [An innocent paying off looks like admitting guilt.] Strong went to court hearing after hearing trying to convince the court that this guy was NOT Strong rated nor the owner of the rig and therefore Strong was NOT liable. In the end, after lots of money was spent (~several hundred thousands of dollars) Strong was found something like '10%' liable. They had to pay more money. IIRC, the reason for this '10%' liability was something to the effect: 'You have the wavier that says you monitor your TM/owners in the field. You did not do this adequately, otherwise the tandem rig owner would have never let an un-rated person use the rig.' .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #9 August 5, 2003 "What could happen " Death. It happened to 2 members of the Coors team in the late 80's as the pair of world champs spent their lives trying to figure out how the gear worked. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
