FreeFlying and Swooping

[johnG325 0]

Is there a correlation between freeflying and swooping. Is there a danger to jumping into freeflying while you're still new to the sport? Just like a clear danger to skydivers who begin swooping before they've honed their skillz. I ask these questions because I feel like some skydivers want to advance, advance, and advance some more without really putting in the necessary work. It kind of scares me some. What do you all think? I've seen plenty of tunnel rats downsize canopies, is that because they're "badass freeflyers" that they must be "badass canopy pilots" as well?

[SoberJason 0]

I'm not experienced enough to comment on that. Just want to say I thought it was great how your vocabulary, spelling, and sentence structure was great but you spelled skills with a Z. Like that's just how it's supposed to be lol. Awesome

[phreeloader 0]

I don't see it. I know folks who freesfly well, but don't swoop. I know folks who swoop but don't free fly, and then i know some that do both.

With that said, most of the serious swoopers I've met don't seem to spend a ton of time doing much freeflying or on their belly. Granted my jump number is laughable at best, but I've never been on a load where Curt Bartholomew went any higher than 5k

[riggerrob 558]

It really depends upon how fast you are absorbing new skills.

For example, if you are struggling to master a freefly skill, there is little point to overloading your brain with a faster canopy.
Keep in mind that some of the top canopy pilots ONLY do hop-and-pops. That is because fast canopy flight takes them to the edge of their competence and they admit that they have no spare brain cells to handle any other tasks other than fly a fast canopy to the edge of its performance envelope.

Remember that a good coach can help you pre-plan dives - and pre-plan your season - to "pace" your progression and keep you progressing while still able to walk (e.g. legs intact).

[grue 1]

riggerrob

Keep in mind that some of the top canopy pilots ONLY do hop-and-pops. That is because fast canopy flight takes them to the edge of their competence and they admit that they have no spare brain cells to handle any other tasks other than fly a fast canopy to the edge of its performance envelope.

Also because some of those canopies don't play well with terminal openings

cavete terrae.

[DocPop 1]

It depends if you mean beer-line swooping or serious, competitive swooping.

As a huge generalization (which are always dangerous!) I'd say a higher percentage of freefliers are beer-line swoopers than would be true of belly fliers. This maybe because they are a younger group more concerned with what the cool kids are doing. Or not.

As has been said, most serious swoopers prefer HnPs. Primarily because they can concentrate on their set-up, turn and swoop with out the canopy traffic of the rest of the load, but there are the other added benefits of HnPs including cost, and the ability to make it on more loads per day.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[3mpire 0]

Quote

What do you all think? I've seen plenty of tunnel rats downsize canopies, is that because they're "badass freeflyers" that they must be "badass canopy pilots" as well?

I think there can be (internal and external) pressure on tunnel rats to jump small canopies. It may be a belief that being advanced in the tunnel translates to being advanced at other aspects of the jump.

However I would preface that by saying it isn't free flying that is the issue here, it is the tunnel.

If you are primarily a skydiver who jumps every weekend and uses the tunnel to build free flying skills, then there isn't much of an issue because your body flying time is somewhat matched by your canopy flying time.

If you are in the tunnel every weekend and only jump a parachute a few times a month, then you're "at risk" for what you describe.

Just being a free flyer is not dangerous. It is when the tunnel time is massively disproportionate to canopy time that the danger of ill-considered downsizing becomes a bigger issue.

It has proven to be fatal.

[mattjw916 2]

Not sure I agree with all of that.

I don't think I ever felt pressure to downsize because I flew in the tunnel a lot, and believe me, I flew a LOT for a while there before I got lazy and tired of converting my paychecks into warm air.

Being a freeflyer can be very dangerous. Being a freeflyer without an AAD is even worse IMO. All the skill, tunnel, jumps#s, etc won't pull a handle for you if you're unconscious. Having a premature deployment or someone accidentally dumping your reserve because they thought that handle was a good place to dock will land you in the emergency room pretty easily, assuming your canopy is still land-able and you have the capacity to control it. I could probably dig up some headdown deployments from back in the day on my hard drive... you can almost feel the bones breaking (and on a couple you actually can see them snapping). But I digress.

An old Special Forces NCO once said to me that the minute you don't think what you're doing is dangerous, or you aren't scared, it's time to quit.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[3mpire 0]

Very good points, I should clarify that it is absolutely not without risk.

The point I was going after is that one shouldn't conflate swooping and free flying (one doesn't have to go with the other).

I think that there is a perception out there that if you are a badass free flyer then you must necessarily be a badass canopy pilot, and skills in one discipline dictate choices in the other.

While not everyone is susceptible to this, some are, and some have paid a high price for it.

[johnG325 0]

I'm sorry, my original post was a huge generalization. But I have noticed a growing trend of jumping into freeflying before one might be ready, and rapid downsizing (I'm assuming to swoop), before being ready.
I just want to tell (some) jumpers to slow down, enjoy the ride. There will be plenty of time for freeflying and downsizing and swooping and all that other cool stuff. You just have to build up the necessary skill(s) first.

[rehmwa 2]

johnG325

I'm sorry, my original post was a huge generalization. But I have noticed a growing trend of jumping into freeflying before one might be ready, and rapid downsizing (I'm assuming to swoop), before being ready.
I just want to tell (some) jumpers to slow down, enjoy the ride. There will be plenty of time for freeflying and downsizing and swooping and all that other cool stuff. You just have to build up the necessary skill(s) first.

This is old news and normal for a certain percentage of jumpers since the sport began.

it's a good observation - youngsters with big egos and little skill might just try to go from zero to hero way too fast - and then suck at everything they try. When they realize they suck, instead of working hard at it, they just belittle the discipline (because it can't be 'their' fault, it must be the discipline) and move to the 'next' thing. Eventually you can find a discipline that's so new, even sucking at it puts you in the top 10%.

I like when jumpers mix it up and learn a lot of different disciplines. As long as they understand the true learning curve of all these things and devote the time and training necessary to it right.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JohnMitchell 14]

johnG325

I've seen plenty of tunnel rats downsize canopies, is that because they're "badass freeflyers" that they must be "badass canopy pilots" as well?

I've seen a bad example or two. Do you really have 138 jumps over 10 years? I wonder how much you've seen of anything.

I think there's a growing realization that canopy skills must be learned properly, regardless of what level you can freefly at.

[JohnMitchell 14]

johnG325

I'm sorry, my original post was a huge generalization. But I have noticed a growing trend of jumping into freeflying before one might be ready, and rapid downsizing (I'm assuming to swoop), before being ready.

I think the two things can operate independently of each other, but the personality that does that tends to do both.