DiverDriver.com Accident Section Update

[diverdriver 5]

I didn't want to put this in the Incidents forum since the most recent accident file to update is from 1997. But after a recent exchange of emails with the NTSB I was able to find these 14 Non-Fatal and 1 Fatal jump plane accident from 1984-1997. The new reports should show up in the list on my website soon.

C-182 Non-Fatal Johnson City, TN December 15, 1984
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X41713&key=1

C-182 Non-Fatal Wesley Chapel, FL January 6, 1985
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X35574&key=2

C-180 Non-Fatal Carlton, MN December 5, 1987
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X32673&key=1

C-182 Non-Fatal Raeford, NC May 10, 1988
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X25610&key=1

C-182 Non-Fatal Menomonee Falls, WI July 3, 1988
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X26171&key=1

C-182 Non-Fatal Baldwin, WI February 11, 1989
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X27702&key=1

C-182 Non-Fatal Ogden, UT September 8, 1990
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X24372&key=1

DHC-6 Non-Fatal Perris Valley, CA December 9, 1990
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X24764&key=1

C-182 Fatal Estacada, OR December 31, 1990
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X24816&key=1

C-185 Non-Fatal New Hanover, PA May 12, 1991
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X17102&key=1

DC-3 Non-Fatal Zephyrhills, FL April 20, 1993
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X12199&key=1

C-170 Non-Fatal Bushnell, FL April 26, 1994
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001206X01164&key=1

C-182 Non-Fatal Chippewa Falls, WI July 19, 1997
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001208X08329&key=1

C-182 Non-Fatal Madera, CA September 6, 1997
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001208X08880&key=1

C-182 Non-Fatal Parkton, NC November 9, 1997
www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001208X09224&key=1

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[edjackson 0]

I like your idea of reporting on skydiving plane crashes. I was in a crash of a twin bo at Tennessee Skydiving Center in Tullahoma Tennessee 1997. I don't think you have that one on your website. It was a pretty serious crash resulting from poor maintenance. No fatalities but several injuries.

[kallend 1,622]

Chris

Is there any attempt to analyze all these data to reach any conclusions and recommendations to reduce the accident rate, or is each incident just treated in isolation with a "ho-hum"?

[diverdriver 5]

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Chris

Is there any attempt to analyze all these data to reach any conclusions and recommendations to reduce the accident rate, or is each incident just treated in isolation with a "ho-hum"?

Well, my personal opinion is that we have way too many accidents compared with other flying. I am not a statistical major or anything so I doubt I would do it correctly.

But just reading the reports year after year I see the industry not learning at all from its' mistakes. Everyone seems to think they are impervious to having an accident. It only happens to "them" because "they" don't know what they're doing. People fail to see how it CAN happen to them.

The only statistical data I can offer is that the General Aviation (GA) accident rate is 6 accidents per 100,000 hours of flying. The last estimate of flying by the US fleet of jump planes is 100,000 total hours that would put skydiving at TWICE or MORE the rate of GA accidents. USPA is working on a new estimate but it would have to double the hours to make us even with GA.

My arguement is that we shouldn't be even with the GA accident rate. We should be better. The GA rate includes accidents with student pilots, private pilots, and other commercial pilots. And all types of aircraft including ultra lights. I'd say our record is pretty sad. Looking at flight instruction accidents, they have a better rate than GA. This is attributed to the fact that a commercially rated pilot is in the right seat. These flight instruction flights do about as many takeoffs and landings as skydiving. Some say that we do more cycles per hour than GA so we aren't as bad as I am making it out to be. But I just don't buy that. If flight instruction flights can have a better record than GA then we can too. It comes down to maintenance and pilot training. The other part of the equation is that not too many people agree with me or want to talk about it. I tried speaking to some of the BOD when they were here at SDC this summer. I didn't feel that I got too much support for my views.

For the year 2002 we are at 14 reports with a month and a half to go. There are 2 incidents that I have been told about that have not had a report listed. We had a lull in 2000 after the deadly 1999 season. But we are peaking again and I fear we will have another deadly year in 2003. I started posting on rec.skydiving in the winter of 1998-99 that we had a problem in this industry. I suggested that standardization for jump pilots was needed. I was pretty well told to shove it. Then we lost 22 people in jump plane accidents in 1999. That was the second worst year for fatalities in jump planes. The worst that I show is 1992 with the Perris Otter and Hinckley, IL Beech 18 going down.

We want lower insurance rates for our jump planes to lower jump ticket prices? We better start flying like we deserve them.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[kallend 1,622]

Chris

Saving space so I'm not quoting.

At the airport where I'm based, the majority of flight operations are student training. I suspect this is true at most small to mid sized airports. A very large fraction of these ops are pattern work, involving large numbers of cycles per hour, more even than jump planes. If cycles were all that there is to it, then this aspect of GA should have a phenomenal accident rate; but it doesn't.

You are right, a segment of aviation that almost exclusively uses commercial rated pilots yet has an accident rate worse than GA overall, seems to have a systemic problem that needs looking at.

In fact, next time I get on a jump plane I think I'll wear a parachute, just in case.

[tombuch 0]

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The other part of the equation is that not too many people agree with me or want to talk about it. I tried speaking to some of the BOD when they were here at SDC this summer. I didn't feel that I got too much support for my views.

We had a lull in 2000 after the deadly 1999 season. But we are peaking again and I fear we will have another deadly year in 2003. I started posting on rec.skydiving in the winter of 1998-99 that we had a problem in this industry. I suggested that standardization for jump pilots was needed. I was pretty well told to shove it.

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Chris:

I think it's the same issue with student training. Safety is expensive in terms of time and dollars. Drop zone operators will not commit the resources because they don't see a financial upside. I think we need to educate the consumer a bit better and drive improvements from the demand side.

Some things I look for:
1) Smooth flying at all times. Horseplay by our pilots shouldn't be tolerated. We are commercial passengers and deserve the same quality flying in a jump plane that we get from American Airlines, or maybe United. Zero G and high G loads can be fun, but a jump plane isn't a roller coaster. I want my jump pilot to treat me as a paying passenger, not like some dork on a carnival ride.

2) Expect smooth and consistent take offs and landings. Don't tolerate a pilot who makes his airplane "jump" off the runway sooner than other pilots with the same plane. Don't tolerate pilots that do quick turns at low speed near the ground or high G pull ups. Don't tolerate pilots that do 'Buzz job" takeoffs.

3) Demand an airplane that delivers more performance than required by the DZ runway. Getting on a plane that uses every inch of the runway and narrowly misses trees is nuts. The airplane should have performance to spare in case something goes wrong.

4) If your pilot does a dead stick landing ask why. Sometimes it's a real necessity, but often those deadstick landings are the result of running out of fuel, bad preflights, or poor maintenance. Too often we rave about how wonderful a pilot is because he was able to avoid damaging the airplane on a no fuel landing. That's not heroic.

5) Demand an airplane that looks like it's in good shape. A DZ that takes care of appearance probably takes care of important maintenance too. Not always, but pride in appearance often reflects pride in maintenance.

6) Favor a pilot that lives by the rules, even if you don't like rules. Think of the FAR's you know about (cloud clearances, visibility, weight limits). If a pilot is breaking regs that you know of, he is probably also breaking regs you don't know about, and those could be serious. Don't tolerate rule breaking from a pilot at any level.

7) Travel to other DZ's with the same kind of airplane. See if they load their planes the same way your DZ does. See if their plane gets the same performance as yours. Compare runway used and climb speed. Ask other pilots why there are differences. try to understand as much as you can about how different airplanes work, and ask questions. Then, ask more questions.

8) Ask your pilot when he was trained, and how recently he has done emergency procedures in the jump plane. Ask if the DZ has a currency requirement that demands practice of critical loss of power emergencies. The most serious engine out situation is near the ground on take-off. Jump pilots should be practicing high power/low speed engine failure and stall recovery. If the pilots at your DZ say they don't need to practice or do recurrency training, they are badly mistaken. The major airlines require regular practice, and so should we.

Each of us is a consumer. We should demand quality airplanes and pilots, and if a DZ doesn't deliver, we should go someplace else. If enough of us speak with our wallets we may pressure DZO's to improve our safety record.

-Tom Buchanan

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

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[Hooknswoop 19]

Great in theory, but try "Demanding" better safety standards from a DZO. You'll be jumping somewhere else and no one will care.

Hook

[kallend 1,622]

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Great in theory, but try "Demanding" better safety standards from a DZO. You'll be jumping somewhere else and no one will care.

Hook

And we have no one to blame but ourselves for that.

[diverdriver 5]

Tom, all I have to say to your post is AMEN BRUTHA!!!!!!!!

That was just refreshing to see posted.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125