Leaving the USPA

[wildblue 4]

Got this in my inbox somehow (someone show rusty how to compress a picture so it's not a 5mb attachment please) and, after being annoyed that I got this through email, I'd thought I'd throw it out here for comments - it goes along a little with what's been said in the elections discussion. I'll reserve my comments for later ---

To Chris Needels,

Response to your form letter below. Yes I do know your name and you may have heard of mine. Since I had trouble finding your e-mail I’ll send this to as many people as possible in hopes of reaching you.

Reasons I chose to leave USPA, you asked, here is the truth. How you read it is your choice, it is written in a neutral frame of mind to hopefully help you to “help current and future members”.

1. Bad Politics.

In my ten years of skydiving I have seen more self-centered egotism in this sport than I care to handle. The last straw was Kevin Gibsons/whoever else’s decision to demolish Nicole Lydicks review of The Goodtime Boogie, to include the removal of the picture and gratitude shown for Skydive America, among other things that were “edited out”. I don’t care what your beef is with S.A. I advertised for several years every month in your expensive magazine, Skydive America had come thru for me during the boogie ten fold, I expected the article to be put in as written. There was nothing wrong with the way it was written and many people come to Nicole for writing and editing purposes, so he insulted her integrity as well. From what I saw S.A. spent many times what I did in advertising and I heard thru the fabulous grapevine that when asking for help when in need, USPA blew them off. I don’t know the whole story nor do I want to. I joined this sport and changed my entire life, for the brotherhood and camaraderie that is found in the non-political end of the sport, as demonstrated at the Goodtime Boogie and other select events and even fewer DZ’s. The over commercialization of the sport has generally led to greed, not love of the sport. Give me a Cessna and a good group of people over a rule infested money hungry DZ ANY DAY! It is not how many jumps one makes but how much fun each jump is!!

2. Bad Politics.

You put in a DZ owner in as a regional director without an election to replace the regional director that quit. It would not surprise me if the whole thing were set up for this all along. Why did you not put the second leading vote achiever in place instead? Wouldn’t that have been the logical thing to do? Does the old adage “It’s not who you know its who you … come into play to get that appointment? Since your last vote counting process would be laughed out of any other organization I guess it doesn’t matter anyway. You did not even allow me the courtesy of my count with the excuse of time constraints. Come on, you mean to tell me that you are that unorganized that you cannot show where every vote went (even if last place I still had the right to know). There are only 30,000+ skydivers of which less than 20% even bother to vote. Not that I could have made a difference as it appears you and/or several others control the sport and have always done so, at least as far as the government/politics end is concerned.

3. B.S. Politics.

A “Not For Profit Organization” where no one know the salaries of its leaders and other “top officials”. A band of thieves or to embarrassed to show how much you and others pocketed from our continued membership fees. From what I can see, I could suck up to the FAA and other bureaucratic institutions for probably half the salary you receive. How did you get the job, are you the founder, the son’s founder or just the puppet for the puppeteer who hides behind the screen.

In addition the pig headedness of the USPA lost the WFFC because of discrimination against several young people who despite their age are some of the best in the sport.


4. Politics

I have given my heart, soul and wallet to the sport along with many others only to be accused of “not being a team player” guess what, the “Team” sucks and when the team acts like a team I’ll be the first to apply for the quarterback or the water boy as both are equally important to the true meaning of the word team.

From what I see the USPA only serves the USPA, where was your help for the Nevada situation? Your help for equal access amounts to matching attorney fees to DZ’s who can’t afford a lawyer in the first place, the insurance you offer to the skydiver or demonstration jump is limited and so constrained to be almost like not having any at all. Protection for the politicians not the constituents, kinda like the U.S Government.

I new nothing of any politics when I joined the sport and recently thought of starting my own organization, (see www.jumprun.com/uspfa.html) then I figured out the true skydivers I care about only want to jump and like me only pay whatever dues or follow whatever rules imposed to do so.

Sincerely,
Rusty A. Rahe
Skydiver

P.S. For the several hundred I have carbon copied this e-mail, please pass it on and we’ll see you at the GOODTIME BOOGIE IV Where FUN has and will be the only politics permitted.

P.S.S. For those who are still members, My humble advice for the elections are as follows:

National: Don “Treetop” Jardin and anyone like him, Mike Mullins and Chris Welker

Regional: Write in Jim West!!! A true legend!!! The absolute, most qualified choice for the Mideastern region.
---

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[PhreeZone 14]

I've read it and I certianlly agree with a lot of the points...

Rusty is a cool guy that I've met a few times. Anyone that went to the Goodtime boogie has him to thank directly since hes the organizer of it.

I would like to know what he's refering to in the WFFC comment if anyone could elaberate on that one...

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[jlmiracle 7]

the WFFC had been in the past a USPA Group Member. It was not last year.


Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[jceman 1]

Quote

the WFFC had been in the past a USPA Group Member. It was not last year.


Judy

Don't surgecoat it Judy.

The WFFC was denied Group Member status by USAP despite being recommended for membership by the applicable regional director. The reason given was "repeated BSR violations"; supposedly allowing the younger Mullins boys to partake in the boogie was one of the biggies.

BS politics, pure and simple.

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them?

[PhreeZone 14]

Yep... thats what I was thinking but wanted to have someone double check me on it. I did like not having to show my USPA card there this year. WFFC is the only real reason that I kept my membership current so it looks like next year it might lapse.. (Jumping at non-USPA DZ's has its perks...)

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

[
Don't surgecoat it Judy.

The WFFC was denied[/] Group Member status by USAP despite being recommended for membership by the applicable regional director. The reason given was "repeated BSR violations"; supposedly allowing the younger Mullins boys to partake in the boogie was one of the biggies.

BS poloitics, pure and simple.

I know, I have fought that battle. I jump with the Mullin's boys.

judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[livendive 8]

Quote

Don't surgecoat it Judy.

The WFFC was denied Group Member status by USAP despite being recommended for membership by the applicable regional director. The reason given was "repeated BSR violations"; supposedly allowing the younger Mullins boys to partake in the boogie was one of the biggies.

BS politics, pure and simple.

Just to throw in my 2 cents, here is the link to the pertinent "Monday's with the BOD" answers.

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=acu2og%24sjak8%241%40ID-75676.news.dfncis.de&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

Note they are from Gary Peek (who's approval of the WFFC's GM application was overturned by the executive committee), Jessie Farrington (i.e. the mom of Andy Farrington. He took me on a tandem when he was 19...at the time I think he had around 2900 jumps), Roger Nelson (i.e. Missy and Rook's dad), and Mike Perry (i.e. a BOD member who didn't even know what the executive committee had done).

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 2,382]

>The WFFC was denied Group Member status by USAP despite being recommended for
> membership by the applicable regional director. The reason given was "repeated
>BSR violations"; supposedly allowing the younger Mullins boys to partake in the
> boogie was one of the biggies.

That's interesting in light of the recent 'voluntary inspection program' proposals. Here we have a group (the WFFC) who outright says they are going to violate the BSR's, albeit for a good reason (i.e. the Mullins kids have more jumps than most people at the WFFC.) How can you allow them to operate under any sort of enforcement program but bust another DZ for a different BSR violation?

[darkwing 4]

USPA, for what it is or isn't worth, is the only thing preventing the sport from being legislated and FAR'ed out of existance. I firmly believe that USPA is flawed, but I just as firmly believe that its dissolution into several different, competing organizations would be a disaaster for skydiving.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

That's interesting in light of the recent 'voluntary inspection program' proposals. Here we have a group (the WFFC) who outright says they are going to violate the BSR's, albeit for a good reason (i.e. the Mullins kids have more jumps than most people at the WFFC.) How can you allow them to operate under any sort of enforcement program but bust another DZ for a different BSR violation?

I think the real issue is that the BSR's should be concerned with safety. Their scope should be limited to a set of commonly accepted rules pertaining to safe skydiving.

Protecting DZO's, gear manufacturers and the organization itself from litigation and does not pertain to safety. Age limits have no place in the BSR's.

Take out the age limitation, 3 popular DZ's would probably be group members.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[skycat 0]

Whew....I thought I was the only one that got a responce like that from Roger Nelson.

I email the BOD a few weeks ago and was basically told by Roger Nelson to quit bothering them that they had better things to do and that I didn't know what I was talking about. Of course when I responded to his email I got a responce back from their server that my email was rejected. I used my work account which shouldn't be on any spam lists.

*shrug* oh well, he isn't running anyway so it doesn't matter.

Fly it like you stole it!

[JJohnson 0]

His reponse to that question made him sound like a dick...to be blunt. I don't know the man, but I don't see as how the question was a waste of anyone's time. If he thought so he didn't have to answer.

JJ

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[livendive 8]

Quote

Whew....I thought I was the only one that got a responce like that from Roger Nelson.



*shrug* oh well, he isn't running anyway so it doesn't matter.

He's doing one worse. He's propping up someone against Gary Peek for the Regional Director slot so he can:
a) remove someone who has been trying to make USPA be an organization for jumpers (as opposed to DZO's)
and
b) still have a say in BOD actions without getting the flak that the name "Roger Nelson" garners among many people.

Plus, this way he only has to raise a couple hundred votes instead of a couple thousand.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[wildblue 4]

Who is Roger "propping up"?

Maybe tandemterry should run

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[Samurai136 0]

Quote

Protecting DZO's, gear manufacturers and the organization itself from litigation and does not pertain to safety. Age limits have no place in the BSR's.

But you do have to be 18 to sign a legally binding contract (waiver). USPA keeps skydivers skydiving. Beyond everyone's petty politics if the USPA didn't represent the sport, inclusive of DZ's and gear manufacturers and skydivers, it wouldn't take much before there were severe government restrictions on the sport.

Protecting the sport from litigation and government regulation keeps America free enough for skydivers to skydive. BSR's service the USPA's end goal of keeping skydivers skydiving.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[livendive 8]

Quote

Quote

Protecting DZO's, gear manufacturers and the organization itself from litigation and does not pertain to safety. Age limits have no place in the BSR's.

But you do have to be 18 to sign a legally binding contract (waiver). USPA keeps skydivers skydiving. Beyond everyone's petty politics if the USPA didn't represent the sport, inclusive of DZ's and gear manufacturers and skydivers, it wouldn't take much before there were severe government restrictions on the sport.

Protecting the sport from litigation and government regulation keeps America free enough for skydivers to skydive. BSR's service the USPA's end goal of keeping skydivers skydiving.

Ken

So why is there one age limit for true student jumps and one age limit for tandems? And how is the protection from litigation a Basic Safety Requirement?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[yardhippie 0]

Quote

But you do have to be 18 to sign a legally binding contract (waiver). USPA keeps skydivers skydiving. Beyond everyone's petty politics if the USPA didn't represent the sport, inclusive of DZ's and gear manufacturers and skydivers, it wouldn't take much before there were severe government restrictions on the sport.

I have heard different people preach about the abilty of under 18 jumpers to sign a waiver. But if you really think about it, there are high school kids performing in all sorts of sports that range from basket weaving to motocross. I belive that skydiving falls in with the more extream of those sports. If our USPA were really working FOR us (the skydivers) they would be pushing for the public and politicians to understand that. The genral public only knows what they hear about skydiving, which is when someone gets hurt, and I dont know how many times someone I meet thinks were all a bunch of adrenalin crazed idiots who have nothing better to do than "throw ourselvs out of airplanes". A better USPA would work to convince the world otherwise, so younger skydivers would be more accepted. I know the Mullins' and love that DZ, the people there are top notch. I am astounded at the skills of those kids and their attitudes. We should all be so lucky!

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[wmw999 2,116]

<./pontificate>
About the 18-year limit, and different limits for different types of jumps.

There is a "safety" in numbers. Lots and lots of kids play football (which probably is more dangerous). But no-one thinks they're nuts, and no one thinks their parents are stupid for letting them play.

So if they hurt themselves, it's a tough break.

If they hurt themselves skydiving, then there are going to be people who tell them they shouldn't have been allowed to in the first place, and that they should sue the "irresponsible MFs" who let them/put them out.

Of course, those "irresponsible MFs" are DZ owners and instructors, many of whom don't have a pot to piss in. And they don't have the weight of long-standing tradition of kids getting hurt playing football behind them. So, while they might well win, they're always the bad guy, and they get bad publicity, and their business goes down anyway. Lose-lose situation.

By putting age 18 into the BSRs, USPA is saying that they'll go to bat for you if you put someone out that age and above (well, probably go to bat for you, but that's another topic). If you put someone under that age out, then they won't. Since they don't want to go over individual situations with a fine-toothed comb, they put all that stuff into the "Basic Safety Regulations." They've been called that since the dawn of time.

The age restriction came out in part after a 12-year-old boy went in sometime in the late 60's/early 70's. Life magazine carried the story. Not good publicity.

An association was formed; they set some rules. We can vote on those rules, but it's a pain in the ass. We can vote on the people who work with them more directly, but there's a lot of strength in being an incumbent. Sounds like politics, right? Except that in this case, we do have more control, because it takes fewer votes to put a new BOD member in.

And no, they don't necessarily "sell out" once they get in. Working with the government, and the people who like the current rules, you might discover that you can't just change everything right off the top.

The trick is not to give up entirely just because it's harder than it looked. I think some of the BOD have decided that maintaining the current structure is a worthy goal, and will invest enough time in that to prevent changing things. Which is a pity.
<./epontificat>

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[livendive 8]

Quote

Who is Roger "propping up"?

Maybe tandemterry should run

Tish "Mama" McMahon

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

Whew....I thought I was the only one that got a responce like that from Roger Nelson.

I email the BOD a few weeks ago and was basically told by Roger Nelson to quit bothering them that they had better things to do and that I didn't know what I was talking about. Of course when I responded to his email I got a responce back from their server that my email was rejected. I used my work account which shouldn't be on any spam lists.

*shrug* oh well, he isn't running anyway so it doesn't matter.

Wow, deja vu. Exact same thing I got. I've always read the differing opinions of this individual and never made a judgment, but after getting a scathing email full of insults and assumption in response to my question regarding USPA procedures I now know why he has a bad rap.

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

But you do have to be 18 to sign a legally binding contract (waiver). USPA keeps skydivers skydiving. Beyond everyone's petty politics if the USPA didn't represent the sport, inclusive of DZ's and gear manufacturers and skydivers, it wouldn't take much before there were severe government restrictions on the sport.

Protecting the sport from litigation and government regulation keeps America free enough for skydivers to skydive. BSR's service the USPA's end goal of keeping skydivers skydiving.

While that is all true, it has NOTHING to do with safety, and has no place in a document called "Basic Safety Recomendations".

I'm concerned that if the BSR's are used to pursue a agenda unrelated to safety, they will become useless. If they're used to pursue agendas (and they are, aparently Bill Booths), then dropzones will be kicked out of the USPA for political reasons.

Once a DZ is out of the group program, there is no reason for them to follow ANY BSR's.

Whenever a good, respected dropzone exists outside of the group membership, it sends a message to the public that:

a: it's ok to jump at non-group member DZ's. (Fandango, anybody?)

b: we're incapable of regulating ourselves.

In a country where the federal government has left us nearly completely unregulated because of a strong central association, it's unnaceptable for major dropzones to exist outside of that unbrella without a very good reason. Bill Booths long running crusade against minor jumpers, while understandable, is not a good enough reason to have unregulated dropzones.


_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[RevJim 0]

Quote

Once a DZ is out of the group program, there is no reason for them to follow ANY BSR's.

Quote

a: it's ok to jump at non-group member DZ's. (Fandango, anybody?)

Ever been to Lodi, CA Andy?

It's your life, live it!
Karma
RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1

[wildblue 4]

Quote

Once a DZ is out of the group program, there is no reason for them to follow ANY BSR's.

Sure there is - to stay safe. DZs don't follow BSRs just to stay in the program, they do it because most of them make sense, and they'd follow them anyway.

Quote

Whenever a good, respected dropzone exists outside of the group membership, it sends a message to the public that:

a: it's ok to jump at non-group member DZ's. (Fandango, anybody?)

b: we're incapable of regulating ourselves.

I don't understand your logic here... maybe I haven't had enough coffee.
You're saying people shouldn't jump at non-member DZs? Uhh.. because their planes are falling apart and they're all a bunch of yahoos with no regard to safety? Being a group memeber does not automatically make it a safe DZ, it's a title, nothing more.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[AndyMan 7]

It's more then a title, it's an agreement to obey a certain set of rules. The agreement has some 'teeth', too.

It's the only regulation there is. This is a good thing. I'd like to keep it this way. Large numbers of DZ's not agreeing to the rules means there are no rules. That's bad.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[PhreeZone 14]

>The agreement has some 'teeth', too.

Yep... get tossed out and loose your monthly ad in Parachutist and the DZ directory... big deal.

I don't see Skydive America, Lodi, SGC, either of Mullins places, San Marcos, WFFC or any of the other non-GM's breaking most the BSR's. A few might not agree to the age thing but thats their DZ. I know of a DZ that would drop jumpers through 4000 feet of clouds that still is a GM even though a National Director watched them break the FAR's. But letting a minor with well over 2000 jumps exit suddenly makes a DZ the most unsafe place in the world?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com