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danvan

Relative Work for Dummies

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Hi all,

I've just got my A licence issued a few weeks ago (Yay!), have another two friends who aren't far behind. I'm looking forward to doing some simple two- and three-way relative work with them in the near future, but am not really up to scratch with the terminology of relative work (e.g. cats, pins, compressed accordian, etc), and don't really know too many good relative work manouvres, so I was wondering if anyone could point me to a good web page or two (or book/video) that may help me personally, and us as a group, to get started in rel work. Maybe even with sample jumps to try?

Also, would people suggest we avoid jumping with each other, all being in the twenties of jumps, for safety reasons until we've done some jumps with more experienced people or should it be a secondary concern (we've all done our B-Rel work)?

Finally, I've got a faster than average fall rate. Do you think this could cause any problems with us all being inexperienced?

Thanks guys
Daniel :)
danvan@dropzone.com

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The USPA has the RW blocks on their website, check there.

Also, it would be really good for you to think about doing some Skydive U. coached jumps. If you do the program you pretty much learn a shit load in a short amount of time, estimated it would take you a few hundred jumps on your own to learn the same stuff.

Remember, with RW its not about maching the slowest falling person, its about finding a fall rate somewhere in the middle, that way no one is working on the edge of their speed ability (slow or fast), since working on that edge will make it hard for them to do anything useful besides just fall (at this point in yalls/my:P ability).

Remember something, this is the most important thing! No matter what, no matter if you turn one point or 5000 points, no matter if the exit funnels and no one even gets a point, have fun and smile! The minute you stop having fun and the minute you stop smiling, step back and think about why your doing this!
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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As far as jumping with your buddies, that's something that you should be discussing with the instructors/experienced jumpers at your DZ. They know where you're at skill-wise. It's great to jump with your buddies, but in my experience it's more productive to jump with somebody who's got enough experience that they can tell you what you need to work on.

And as Dave said, SMILE!!!!:)
I got nuthin

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Then again, if your doing this just for fun not competition...jump with your buddies and have a blast! Make sure you are all able to control your selves very well, since all 3 of you are low-timers there is an increased danger.

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Yes it is more dangerous to jump with your buddies when all of you have 20 jumps.

It can be done, but you will have a slower learning curve with higher chances of problems....

This is a topic best asked of the Instructors/Load Organizers/Coaches/S&TA/Hot RW folks....ect, at your DZ.

If you really want to jump with your buddies, do 2 ways....In a 3 way that one extra person multiplies the danger at first, and at a lower skill level you will learn more on smaller ways.

Like I said....Ask at your DZ.

Ron
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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It can be done, but you will have a slower learning curve with higher chances of problems....


Exactly. My ex and I did lots of two ways shortly after we both got off student status. They were great fun, but both of us learned faster when we were jumping with more experienced people.

See if there's an experienced someone willing to do three ways with you and one of your buddies. That way you've got an experienced pair of eyes on the load who can help both of you and you're still jumping with at least one of your buddies.

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I am by no means an expert on this topic so take anything I say with a grain of salt. But if you and your buddies want to start jumping together, start jump with just two people at a time and delegate before hand that one of the people will just fall stationary and have the other person be responsible for moving in to dock. This will make for a much more controlled environment. Then you and you buddies can alternate responsibilities between jumps.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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Also, would people suggest we avoid jumping with each other, all being in the twenties of jumps, for safety reasons until we've done some jumps with more experienced people or should it be a secondary concern (we've all done our B-Rel work)?



IMHO you're only as good as the person/people that you jump with. It's always a good idea to jump with someone that can give you a good debrief after the jump. Doing two way drill dives with someone that has more experience is a good way to see the learning curve go up.
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

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W whole group of us got into this discussion at dinner the other night. After a day of jumping with a World class coach, we were saying that it is OK to be snobby with who you jump with. If you try to jump with all novices you will not be sure what you are doing. Who is moving and in what direction? Try to find at least one experienced person to jump with. They can be the reference point to work off.
Even Airspeed, Majik, and the Knights have the saying that the Inside center is always right. That is sayign that you need one reference point to work off or no one will ever know who is doing what.
Bottom line jump wiht people who are as good as you can find to jump with you even if it means paying them. you will be a much better skydiver for it is a much shorter time.
Chris

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They are correct, all 4way teams should bow to the Inside Center and buy him or her donuts in the morning and a nice lunch!!;):)
Kidding aside, you can learn some stuff goofing off with your buds, but more often than not, you can also get frustrated and not really sure why you two never docked, with someone that has a higher experience level you can at least have a stable reference.

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After a day of jumping with a World class coach, we were saying that it is OK to be snobby with who you jump with.



To a point. That whole conversation gave me the heebee-jeebees and the way you just explained it might also give some people the wrong impression.

Obviously if you're spending a lot of money for a coach, you want everyone in the group to be of a similar skill level -- otherwise the much weaker ones drag the group down and not a lot gets accomplished.

However, I think it's just flat out -wrong- to exclude an entire class of "less experienced" jumpers from your circle of jump buddies. Ya gotta make -some- fun jumps with just about everyone every once in awhile. I'll admit I pick-n-choose those jumps pretty carefully on the days when I'm not jumping camera for a team or whatever -- and those days are pretty far and few between too. But ya gotta do it. BTW, I -still- get called a jump-snob from time-to-time by people that just don't understand that, well, I'm already booked.

Speaking of which, anyone doing the Peckerhead Meat thing next weekend?
Ought to be fun -- sure way to prove you're not a snob. ;)
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Quade you know that I agree with you. Just as you hope that better people will jump with you you should help others as well. I like jumping with less experienced people. I think that they provide more to the experienced people tha nthey get back often. It if fun to jump with your friends.
All I am trying to say is that if the intent is to get better and learn to fly. It is difficult with a bunch of low timers. ONe time be the experienced person and the next be the newbie. Keep it mixed. Don't be a jump snob and shun other people but also don't try to jump with b=newbie friends and expect to learn as quickly.
Chris

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Ya gotta make -some- fun jumps with just about everyone every once in awhile.


Yup. Those are usually some of the funnest jumps I can do. Generally the novice is blown away that that I'm not only willing to jump with them but also more than willing to pay for my own slot. What they usually don't realize is that I'm actually feeding off their excitement - I think sometimes I get more enjoyment and satisfaction out of those kind of jumps than I do some of the "really cool" jumps I've been lucky enough to be on. It's very fullfilling to be able to pass on some of what was given to me when I was a novice.

Of course I love jumping with people who are way better than I am, because that's how I can improve my skills. If I could afford it, I'd be all over paying for coaching for myself because I know there is so much more that I could learn. I do think that more experienced jumpers, especially those who have some teaching skills and knowledge of "state of the art" techniques, should be willing to jump with novices on their own dime. It bothers me that some jumpers insist that paying for coaching is the only way to get any good; what ever happened to "giving back?"

I truly hope that no one ever thinks of me as a "jump snob" - for me skydiving is all about having fun flying with my friends, and if you've jumped with me once, regardless of your experience or skill level... you're my friend. :)

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yeah, Albatross.. don't be such a snob. :P Some people aren't as competitive and if they just want to fun jump, then you don't need a coach. You can learn a lot from flying relative with less experienced people. Not everyone can afford coaching either, and at smaller DZs they aren't as readily available. :S

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However, I think it's just flat out -wrong- to exclude an entire class of "less experienced" jumpers from your circle of jump buddies.

I'm with you, Quade. I have the good fortune of having a former Jr. National 4-way champ at my dz, and he never turns me down for a fun jump when's not getting paid to fly camera. I'm a poor excuse for a relative worker, but I sure learn lots from my buddy when he takes the time to teach me!



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