10000ft.com

[Squeak 17]

have you guys and gals seen this b4?
http://www.10000ft.com/movie.htm

If it's true it's well worth suporting.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[PhreeZone 15]

Actually... its not. How long do you think that your favorite gear dealer would be around if some guy in his basement wanted to corner the market on selling alti's and there for all the gear dealers could'nt or they'd lose money, then someone else wants to do the same on X canopy. Soon all the major dealers are gone since they can't afford to compete against 100 different companies all seeling gearat or very close to cost. Instead of being able to call one place and order a canopy, rubber bands, gloves, and a video you'd now have to place 4 orders, to 4 different people all over. Service levels would go down since you now have a lot more middlemen and then manufactor prices go up since they have to hire additional staff to support this widly distributed network.

In a market as small as skydiving its a fine line between profit and being out of business. For instance, Square 1 employs over 10 skydivers, that know a lot about gear and dealers (they have forgot more then most people know), if they or Skykat or Aerostore or Sunshine Factory disappeared tommorrow there is a lot of lost knowledge, service and contacts. In addition to just paying for an item you are paying for service behind that item.

Gas (petrol for you British ) stations that get into price wars with local stations to see who can go the lowest usually end up losing a lot of money in the short run, but they are able to make it up in the long run by volume, skydiving does'nt offer that level of quanity.

Freemarket is great... if the market is large enough to support it.. unfortunatlly skydiving is not. Ever see a Tandem offered for $25? Or jump tickets for $5?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[billvon 2,393]

>Freemarket is great... if the market is large enough to support it.. unfortunatlly skydiving is not.

Hmm . . . would you refuse to go to a boogie that offered $12 jumps?

I understand the dealer issue, but I think that's sorta separate. You pay for what you get. If you're a new jumper and you want good advice, it may well be worth going through Square 1. If you have 5000 jumps and you have to replace your reserve, you may save money by getting it from a deep discount dealer; you may not need the additional services that Square 1 provides. Most jumpers, by that time, have ways to buy gear near dealer's cost anyway. This happens now and places like Square 1 survive.

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

Or jump tickets for $5?

Last time I was at Lodi, hop and pop jump tickets were $5 for 3 grand. Not sure what they are now.
Still, it didn't appear to put the other Northern California DZ's out of business. People prefer different DZ's (or gear dealers) for a variety of reasons. Price is only one of them.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Squeak 17]

the point i was refering to is the lack of competition in priceing if retail prices are fixed then there is no competition.
I'm not against anyone making a dollar out of sales, but why should wholesalers dicatate how someone should make thier profits.
Some people would prefer high voulume over high margins
And as for the one stop shop theory, I don't subscribe to it and I dare say many people don't, especially with the WEB.
Please also bare in mind that here in Oz we dont have any SHOPs all gear is from phone or mail or web.
We don't have anywhere where you can walk in off the street and browse.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

the point i was refering to is the lack of competition in priceing if retail prices are fixed then there is no competition.

If in fact this is true, it would be simple to end - just notify the FTC, and ask them to lay charges. Having 'minimal price' limits enforced on dealers is a clear violation of anti-trust laws in the US.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[AndyMan 7]

http://www.ftc.gov/bc/compguide/illegal.htm

A definition of price fixing by the FTC.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[ERICCONNELLY 0]

What it says...

Quote

Resale price maintenance agreements. Vertical price-fixing -- an agreement between a supplier and a dealer that fixes the minimum resale price of a product -- is a clear-cut antitrust violation. It also is illegal for a manufacturer and retailer to agree on a minimum resale price.

The antitrust laws, however, give a manufacturer latitude to adopt a policy regarding a desired level of resale prices and to deal only with retailers who independently decide to follow that policy. A manufacturer also is permitted to stop dealing with a retailer who breaches the manufacturer’s resale price maintenance policy. That is, the manufacturer can adopt the policy on a "take it or leave it" basis.

Agreements on maximum resale prices are evaluated under the "rule of reason" standard because in some situations these agreements can benefit consumers by preventing dealers from charging a non-competitive price

Note paragraph 2. Seems to be quiet a bit of wiggle room here.

E

[sarge 0]

I don't want to cut-n-paste Bill V's whole reply... so in that regard, in the philosophical context, the free-market-concept allows for this phenomenon to exist, it actually it encourages it.

However there is a concept called, "dumping" (generally applies to international business activites but not exclusively) wherein Law requires that imported products/items be sold for at least production costs, plus 10% overhead, plus 8% profit margin!!! Look closely at the coffee crisis and it is a good example.

But in the context of this discussion, more specifically, with aforementioned in mind, and in consideration of current anit-trust regulations; it is completely permissible within the realm of practice for a primary producer/supplier to establish criteria for the membership entitled to be a final distribution source and to create uniform guidelines for members to retain standing as a distributor of those products/services. (You make me look it up I want a $250.00 retainer 1st!!)

Which is why you can go to your local car dealerhip and pay the same for that oem part at any other certified dealership (incentives and other perks excluded). Or why a Big-mac costs the same in a specified geographic area.

I also recall the question of service mentioned? well, its my opinion that service is accessible on a relative basis also (like baragain basement acquisition costs). Meaning this is a very important component of the 'discount equation' that needs to be considered as part-and-parcel to the purchase cost.

what was the question...sorry?

.

--
I'm done with the personally meaningful and philosophical sigs!!

[pds 0]

ARGH!

it is a free market, but what are the outs for a company who has lines pulled due to deep discount pricing? no easy answer here. an anti-trust suit?

there was an argument made about protecting knowledgible resellers from deep discounters. this is ridiculous. Square one is a VAR - value added reseller. If the value they add with thier knowledge and experience is worth the margins they set, they will survive.

I think price-fixing in any market is inequitable.

namaste, motherfucker.