Downsizing

[sillyolethang 0]

What is the average time/jumps for downsizing from a student rig (Skymaster 288) to my own (PD170)? How many jumps ought to be alright to get into my own gear? I did 3 on a Rascal 230 this last week and things went well but I was curious how many jumps I should put on each before getting into my own stuff. My exit weight is less than 170. I would appreciate opinions from newbies as well as all that are far more experienced.
Smiles,

Amy

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Oh boy ... I can see the canopy nazis lining up for this one. So I'm not even going to say a word in terms of doing X number of jumps before downsizing (keeping in mind that following BillVon's canopy downsizing guidelines isn't a bad thing).

Since BillVon is a moderator, hopefully he will see this and post his downsizing guidelines again.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[skybytch 259]

Novice jumpers on the "demo program" or renting gear from Square One generally go down one size at a time and do 3-5 jumps on each size before going down to the next one.

Basically, you want to feel confident landing each size before going down to the next one.

Since you'll be loading your own main at less than 1.0, you could probably go down to a 190 on your next few jumps. As soon as you feel confident landing that you should be ready for your main.

[skr 1]

>What is the average time/jumps for downsizing from
>a student rig (Skymaster 288) to my own (PD170)?

Well, the background concern is will you hurt yourself
(or somebody else).

And the answer to that is have you learned the basic
toggle techniques to keep your wings level close to
the ground and not land on awkward stuff, number one,
and number two, are you thinking far enough ahead
about where you're trying to go under canopy so that
you don't get into tight sitations and do some last minute
bad move.

And a good way to get to there is to ask a couple
experienced jumpers who seem both sensible and
approachable to help you with your progression.

There are too many variables to put a number on it.

Canopy flying is not simple and it's not easy, and it's
good to put some focused effort into it.

Keep us posted on what you're learning, everybody
needs to know this stuff.

Skr

[BoobieCootie 0]

Jessie Farrington (DZO and NW Regional Director) would not let me downsize until was able to land on the peas. And that was with each size as we went down.

And we used Skymasters of the same size you discribed, before going to a PD 190 , then Silhouette 170.

And it took me a good 70 jumps before I was on a 170.

[billvon 2,396]

> What is the average time/jumps for downsizing from a student rig . . .

No fixed time/#of jumps; it depends on your skill. On your current canopy can you:

-flat turn (at least 90 deg at 50 feet)
-flare turn (at least 45 deg)
-land in rear risers
-land consistently in a 10 meter circle
-land crosswind and no wind
-land on slight uphills/downhills
-do a double front riser approach

If you can do all that, you're probably ready to downsize. Coaching will make that day come a lot sooner. Don't make the mistake of downsizing quickly, and ending up under a canopy that scares you too much to try the above; if you're afraid to push your canopy you'll never learn to fly it.

[grosfion 0]

Quote

>
-land in rear risers
-land consistently in a 10 meter circle
-land on slight uphills/downhills
-do a double front riser approach
.

in this case I should never have downsized from my student canopy. Even now I'm not able to pull the front risers. I still looking for the hills I can land down or up :-) land consisently in a 10m circle > wow you better get first your D-licence before you get any smaller......

Your rules might apply for intermediate or advanced jumpers but not for students I think. I have the impression that whenever you guys see the word downsize you doing copy/past.....

blues
Marcus

[skybytch 259]

Quote

land consisently in a 10m circle > wow you better get first your D-licence before you get any smaller......

If a student has gotten good canopy control instruction, landing consistently in a 10 meter circle shouldn't be a problem. If it is, that suggests a need for further canopy control coaching.

After getting on their own gear, waiting until they are D-licensed qualified to downsize again is a smart thing to do.

[billvon 2,396]

>in this case I should never have downsized from my student canopy.

Well, no, you should just have made sure you could land in a 10 meter circle, landed with rear risers etc on the larger canopy. It's much easier to do on a large canopy than on a small one. And if you can't land in a 10 meter circle with what is essentially an accuracy canopy there's something wrong there.

>Your rules might apply for intermediate or advanced jumpers but not
> for students I think.

Well, they are primarily for people starting to seriously downsize. Going from .9 to 1 to 1.1 to 1 isn't as big an issue as going from 1.2 to 1.4 to 1. You still have to have the skills on the previous canopy before you get a new canopy that you will not push out of fear.

>I have the impression that whenever you guys see the word downsize
>you doing copy/past....

Well, yeah, every FJC I teach is essentially a copy and paste too, because it seems to work well that way. Gravity, aerodynamics and physics don't change.

[sandi 0]

Quote

land consisently in a 10m circle > wow you better get first your D-licence before you get any smaller......

Isn't landing within 10 meters a requirement for a B license?

[QTPi 0]

Would you waive the double front riser approach for insufficient strength? As a student I was under a huge canopy and could barely do my turns with rear risers (I did do them but with great effort). Front risers weren't budging for me.

--
A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions. -Oliver Wendel Holmes

[billvon 2,396]

>Would you waive the double front riser approach for insufficient
> strength?

It depends; if you stick with larger canopies they are not as important. However, this IS important:

> As a student I was under a huge canopy and could barely do my
> turns with rear risers . . .

Being able to turn with rear risers is a lifesaving skill; you may need it someday to avoid a collision on opening. I'd recommend working on your strength so you can safely dodge close canopies on opening. Note that you can also use front risers for this if your canopy has lower front riser than rear riser pressure.

[QTPi 0]

I'm fine with rear risers now that I'm on a smaller canopy and practice with them on a regular basis. I still have a hard time with front risers though. I can do front riser turns (with plenty of altitude) if I flare then release and grab my front risers. I'm working on improving my upper body strength.

--
A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions. -Oliver Wendel Holmes

[dzjmg 0]

I went from a telesis 230 (as a student) to a pd 170 in my first rig and had no problem at all. I weigh about 170 lbs as well.
I don't think it is a matter of how many jumps have, but how comfortable you feel under canopy. Don't downsize if you can not consistently land on target with a 230.
I do kind of worry when I start loading on a weight vest for rw. Thats when things get a bit more interesting.

Jay

[betzilla 56]

Here's what I did:

35 jumps on a Manta 288
10 jumps on a Triathlon 220 1 jump on a Tri 175
1 jump on a Tri 160

Then I got a chance to buy a Sabre 170 cheap at the beginning of the next season. I was positive I would kill myself on it (I weighed 160 at the time), but I did fine.

Don't be foolish (like I was when I downwinded that 160 when I only had 45 jumps -- oops!), get advice from instructors, and jumpers you know are safe. And follow your gut. Unless you're nuts -- then follow your instructors' gut.