diverdriver 5 #1 March 13, 2003 Phil Artwegar was kind enough to write up a section on flying jumpers with the Shorts Skyvan. He gave it to me long ago and I have been remiss in getting it added to DD.com. Sorry Phil. But, it's up now and you can see a Skyvan that has....well......the most unique paint job I have ever seen on any aircraft! Link HERE Also, I have added links to some engine operation articles that could be very useful to jump pilots. Lots of technical stuff. Link HERE and scroll down just a bit. It's called the Pelican's Perch. Excellent stuff. Coming in the future I am hoping to add a couple of products from the FAA that could be handy as general guides for flying jumpers. Keep an eye out for updates and visit www.DiverDriver.com.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #2 March 13, 2003 Jus twondering if you have the information about the two skyvan's that crashed painted the same way as the one pictured? Just curious why two vans with the same owner and paint job had accident's? Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #3 March 13, 2003 I do not have the reports. If you have a link I'd appreciate it. Send it PM if you don't want to post it. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #4 March 13, 2003 Dont have one, I just saw pictures of it, in a foreign skydive magazine and couldn't understand what it said. I was wondering if you had heard anything since you seem to be the one to ask about stuff like that. I hear that the pink skyvan is maintained very well, and they have a grade A operation, so I was wondering what happened. I dont think there was any fatalities but the one crash I saw pictures of was very ugly. They also happened in europe so my bet was maybe something to do with fuel quality or something. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #5 March 13, 2003 Thanks for the info. As for me knowing all, sorry, I don't. But I do learn of stuff pretty quickly here in the states. Things that happen in Europe are harder for me to track. They don't have websites like the FAA or NTSB that I use a lot to research.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyguy 0 #6 March 13, 2003 Nice article. It is nice that people that know are willing to share. This is a funny bit Quotebut by that time you're most likely fully stalled and part of their formation. Not that anybody involved would enjoy it. ---------------------------- bzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivinmartin 0 #7 March 13, 2003 Interesting article Chris, even for a non-pilot - thanks. Just curious, but why is the Skyvan (at least the Skydive Arizona van, the only one I have jumped) SO LOUD? It seems much worse (prop noise? engines?) than any other jump plane. Casas have four blade props while the AZ van had only three blades as I recall, but other three blade turbo props I've jumped from don't seem nearly as harsh to me. Martin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #8 March 13, 2003 Loud or supersized vibrator?! Seriously thought I was gonna crap my pants on some loads. Wow...wonder what it is like for girls. Anyway, thanks, nice article. I was not aware that any "pinks" had crashed. I find that very surprising. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betzilla 56 #9 March 13, 2003 Quote supersized vibrator?! I had the most pleasant ride to altitude EVER at Quincy in a skyvan one year. The extra alititude was especially appreciated... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakyrat 1 #10 March 14, 2003 Chris I heard that the FAA was going to put a maximum service life on the Skyva. Have you heard anything? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Craig 0 #11 March 14, 2003 Quote Interesting article Chris, even for a non-pilot - thanks. Just curious, but why is the Skyvan (at least the Skydive Arizona van, the only one I have jumped) SO LOUD? It seems much worse (prop noise? engines?) than any other jump plane. Casas have four blade props while the AZ van had only three blades as I recall, but other three blade turbo props I've jumped from don't seem nearly as harsh to me. Martin Depends where you are listening to the noise at. From inside the cabin differences may be due to the amount insulation in the fuselage and such. Skyvans use Garrett turbines and these are well known for their noise output. Skydive AZ Skyvan is pretty darn loud even compared to a CASA, which also uses Garrett turbines. Heh, I think they convert Jet-A into noise. I think props can figure a little into noise output but I am not really sure. I have heard two different CASA's ran up, each with a different set of props, and the only thing I really noticed was a slight difference in the prop noise iteslf and not so much the engines. I'm sure Chris will correct me if I am off base here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
romy 0 #12 March 14, 2003 QuoteJust curious why two vans with the same owner and paint job had accident's? 3, actually: http://aviation-safety.net/database/1995/950607-1.htm http://aviation-safety.net/database/1996/960616-0.htm http://aviation-safety.net/database/1998/981017-1.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #13 March 14, 2003 Im not really sure shy, but this year at nationals the skydive AZ Otters had 4 blade prop's and the skydive Chicago otter's had 3 blade and the Az otters were signifigantly quieter. No explanation that had merrit was heard though. I have always wondered the difference between a 3 blade prop and a 4 blade prop. I know with Boats you use a 4 blade prop for a faster holeshot, but with an airplane that doesn't make sence. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Craig 0 #14 March 14, 2003 The more blades a prop has the smoother it will run in terms of vibration so I guess it would help reduce noise output now that I think of it. The more blades a prop has, the higher the power setting you can use and keep the prop efficient. Pretty sure I got that right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyguy 0 #15 March 14, 2003 No expert here either but, I like planes. The Otters run Pt 6 turbines. The props are not actually connected to the turbines. You can almost hold on to the prop while the engine is starting, and you won't become blender fodder. The skyvan uses a different system where the prop is connected to the turbine, mechanically. Like a prop hung off a Cessna. I don't know why that is noisier, but it is. Just a totally different engine. Doesn't have much to do with how many blades the prop has. ---------------------------- bzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #16 March 14, 2003 >The props are not actually connected to the turbines. Well, they are connected, otherwise you wouldn't get any power. However, PT6's have two turbine stages - one to drive the compressor and one for power takeoff. Other engines (like Garretts) have only one set of turbines, so the prop has to spin at a pretty set RPM to have the engine run (and even idle) well. Good description of PT6's here. >I don't know why that is noisier, but it is. Cause the props can't slow down much even on the ground when idling. Also the exhaust doesn't make as many turns in a Garrett, so you hear more engine noise. And of course the Skyvan is like a big steel drum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #17 March 14, 2003 >I have always wondered the difference between a 3 blade prop and a >4 blade prop. Smaller # of blades: -more efficient, cheaper -each blade is much heavier Larger # of blades: -smaller diameter prop disc, sometimes important for ground/structure clearance -fewer "power pulses" during asymmetric power production, like you get at high angless of attack, so feels smoother -quieter due to lower tip speeds On planes with powerful engines and/or planes that fly at high speeds, sometimes the prop spins so fast that the tips can approach the speed of sound. This is _very_ inefficient, so sometimes designers add blades so they can reduce the diameter (and thus the tip speed) of the prop, without changing the RPM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Craig 0 #18 March 15, 2003 Quote>The props are not actually connected to the turbines. Well, they are connected, otherwise you wouldn't get any power. However, PT6's have two turbine stages - one to drive the compressor and one for power takeoff. Other engines (like Garretts) have only one set of turbines, so the prop has to spin at a pretty set RPM to have the engine run (and even idle) well. Good description of PT6's here. >I don't know why that is noisier, but it is. Cause the props can't slow down much even on the ground when idling. Also the exhaust doesn't make as many turns in a Garrett, so you hear more engine noise. And of course the Skyvan is like a big steel drum. A Garrett would be like http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~mech372/turbo/engine3.html to get a picture of the difference in construction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Craig 0 #19 March 15, 2003 Ya I am bored....and in case you are interested see attached...sorry about quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #20 March 15, 2003 QuoteChris I heard that the FAA was going to put a maximum service life on the Skyva. Have you heard anything? I have not heard that.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #21 March 15, 2003 Exactly. The 4-blade props are quieter because the tip speed is slower than a 3-blade prop at the same power output. Here's the rub. With the 4-blade props the engine has to be set to idle higher than a 3-blade PT-6. So, being empty in an otter that flots anyway and now you have more power being produced at idle you can really, REALLY float if you are not ready. If that's what you learn on you'll be used to it. But first time I flew Monterey's Otter with the 4-blades I wasn't slowing down very good as I expected. THEN I got told "Oh yah, they're idling higher". Geee THANKS! Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #22 March 15, 2003 Great piece on the "box the Twin Otter came in" er, Skyvan. I enjoyed jumped out of an Austrian-registered Pink Skyvan during the 1980s. Oh and the advice about stalling a Skyvan was bang on. One time we had 19 people jammed up on the ramp and we stalled, and jumpers hesitated and eventually they exited and the pilot spun the airplane one and a half turns after we left and he was white as a sheet after landing and his weekday job was flying Austrian Air Force fighter planes through the mountains at low altitudes! Anyways, the Pink People run a professional operation. The next challenge is to get other pilots to share similar knowledge on other types of airplanes. Maybe I will ask my boss if he will allow me to post our (Cessna 128 and 205) operating manual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #23 March 15, 2003 That would be excellent if he want to contribute them to DD.com. Let me know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #24 March 15, 2003 QuoteQuoteChris I heard that the FAA was going to put a maximum service life on the Skyva. Have you heard anything? I have not heard that. that's interesting, cause I was hearing talk about there being an airframe lifetime for the van -- I believe they have it in Europe, and the US is going to do the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #25 March 15, 2003 Do you have an article link? something from the FAA? articles from europe? Anything would help. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
