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julius

AAD incident in Colorado

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I read some of the posts but not all. My question though, is why does anyone jump a canopy that snivels for a 1000'?
I jumped a stilleto for about 50 jumps and got rid of it because it sniveled too much. Several times I was just beginning to pull the cutaway handle when the thing opened. I'm a belly flier and dumping at 3 grand or higher is a waste of time. Any snivel more than 3 seconds is a mal in my eyes and gets "the handle" pulled!
My new Sabre2 opens in within my limits; pilot chute at 2, unstowing brakes at 17.

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I read some of the posts but not all. My question though, is why does anyone jump a canopy that snivels for a 1000'?



A 1000' snivel was a guess-t-mate. The video shows an altimeter reading 2100 just prior to the jumper intiating the pull of the main BOC pilot chute, a snivelling opening and then it shows the jumper pulling down the slider at 900'. How much of that is snivel and how much of that was time it takes to deploy the pilot chute and how much was the time waiting for the pilot chute to catch air, yada, yada, yada.

Also, instead of posting a smart-alec remark. Maybe you should read the thread. First off the jumper was coming off of a head down freefly going close to 200 mph (or maybe even faster). I couldn't help but notice that you list formation skydiving as your preferred disciplines (not that there is anything wrong with that). But I'm guessing you have no idea how fast you go when freeflying. Finally, if you read the thread, you will notice that another CO jumper talked about density altitude and how it effects our freefall speeds. So when you add up the speed the jumper may have been going, the fact that the jumper was in a fairly high density altitude scenario (very thin air), are you surprised that it took so long for the canopy to open? Geez think about the conditions some people jump in before you start critizing.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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Well said. Unless he fudged the numbers on his profile and he doesn't really have 2900 jumps, I'm suprised he didn't consider the situation. Or even read the details before posting...hmmm[:/]



OK, then I'll take the question away from the context of the Colorado event, and ask it again...Why do some people jump parachutes that snivel for 1,000 feet? I know some people like slow openings, so I suppose that's a reason, but consistent 1,000 foot openings do seem a bit excessive to me. Yet, I see people who feel compelled to open at 4,000 feet because they say their parachutes always snivel for 1,000 feet, and sometimes more. I think most of us who jump at big drop zones know of at least a person or two in this category.

So the original poster, who doesn't have a lot of jumps, asked a logical question that was probably developed after the Colorado event, but relates to skydiving in general (hence, a new thread in General Skydiving Discussions). Why do some people jump parachutes that take 1,000 feet to open?

Can we get a few people who do have a lot of jumps to answer the question...perhaps you like slow opening parachutes? Perhaps you plan to dump your main at higher than normal speed? Perhaps you bought the parachute without knowing it had slow openings? Whatever. It's a reasonable question worth discussing. Why do some people jump parachutes that take 1,000 feet to open?

Tom Buchanan
4,500 Jumps
etc.
Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

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I'm yet to see one that takes 1000 feet. Most people claim its 1000 but its more like 500-700. Great way to prove it is a flour dump opening. Pack the main with a few pounds of flour in it, get out side video of the distance between the flour cloud and where you open. The flour cloud is formed as soon as the dbag is clear of the main and the canopy starts to unfold. I have a 2.5 second snivel on my Jedei and I only use about 350-400 feet from cloud to open canopy.

To have a true 1000 foot opening you either are in Snivel for about 8 seconds or you never slow down while in snivel until you suddenly stop with a full canopy. A few tandem mains take 1000 feet but those were designed to do that.

Do a search on either Alan or me posting about this... its one of out pet peeves.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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Hey dude, he was just asking a question...He used the CO incident as a reason for asking the question.

For my answer.
I like a slow opening canopy....1,000 feet might be much, but as long as I can speed it up (with risers) I am ok with it.

I like to pull around 2,500. And have a Stiletto 107.

Ron
2,800 jumps
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Isn't the point that we should all jump canopies were are personally comfortable with???? Why does matter if some people jump a canopy that snivels for a 1000 feet???? You don't have to jump it. And if you did jump it and felt uncomfortable why jump it again???? Do what is best for you.....worry about yourself....quit bickering with each other.....and here is a thought if you maintain altitude awareness a 1000 foot snivel most likely won't be a problem.....

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My canopies have consistent 800-1000ft openings every time, and I wouldn't want it any other way. I used to jump a "slammer" that would open in 300ft or less, and it fucking sucked when I was going 144mph while skysurfing or if I was filming a tandem video with a heavy camera helmet on my head. So as a result, I looked for a new canopy with softer opeings. Plus, when I pack, while coning my canopy I roll the tail tight like a (quoting Bill Murray from Caddyshack) "big old Bob Marley joint", every jump. I make anywhere from 10-30 work jumps a weekend, and would't last 5 jumps a day if I was constantly getting slammed by hard openings. So that is why I want a 1000ft snivel. My back and my neck thank me for it every day.

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>So when you add up the speed the jumper may have been going,
> the fact that the jumper was in a fairly high density altitude scenario
> (very thin air), are you surprised that it took so long for the canopy
> to open?

FYI, canopies tend to open more quickly at higher altitudes. This may or may not compensate for the higher freefall speeds when it comes to snivel distances.

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>Why do some people jump parachutes that take 1,000 feet to open?

I think because:

1. Some people do not believe that you can get a parachute to open very softly in 300-400 feet

2. Many people think their openings take longer than they do

3. Many people are OK with the reduction in available time to react to a mal and/or are OK with opening higher to compensate.

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I can pack my safire such that it takes maybe 600ft or so. Most people I've encountered that say their canopy snivels for 1k, then I jump with 'em and observe, really only take about, or even not only if that. Most who supposedly look to do this, do so in order to soften (or by perception soften) their openings.

Personally, I like to "fly open" my canopy. Meaning that, I have enough delay in the slider coming down from the point of line stretch to "manage" it's speed in a staged fashion with my rear risers DURING snivel. This, to me, softens the openings & makes them very predictable, because I am in control of the opening, as opposed to being just a subject to it. Some peple believe you need 1,000 ft of snivel to do this. Like I say, at least for me, this in reality is generally NO MORE than 600 ft TOTAL from pitch to slider stowed.

Does this help answer your question?
Blues,
-Grant
coitus non circum - Moab Stone

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a 1000 foot snivel most likely won't be a problem.....



Until one day you find yourself snivelling right down into that f*ing group that pulled just a bit high & turned right back up line of flight underneath you! :S

Seen it happen before.
coitus non circum - Moab Stone

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Wow! I was just asking a question!
Now I have some answers. I was not at all making a sarcastic remark. Thanks Ron! Thanks Scrumpot!
Another scenario - unfortunately most will someday find themselves in the basement where all they need is a snivelling canopy and thinking about pulling the reserve will only waste more time...
If you are suddenly faced with ground rush, what is your instinctive reaction?
300' Sabre2 openings? nose not rolled, pull then sit up.
BTW, I really do have 2900 jumps, not many by some standards....

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If you are suddenly faced with ground rush, what is your instinctive reaction?



Again, where I feel I can effectively "manage" the speed of my openings (ie: I can speed them up if necessary), unless I am UNDER 1,500 (never been there at terminal -so I guess I can't say for SURE) I am going for still, my MAIN. If you check my profile, you will note that I DO jump with a Cypres, and yes, this does enter my mind. However, NOT to the point of hesitation. Like Bill Von, I feel fairly confident in my abilities to manage a 2-canopies out situation.

1. Because I have thought of it, planned (or at least "visualized") & DON'T necessarily "fear" that situation. and
2. Because my main & reserve combo, I think, are fairly well "matched".
(again, increasing my likelihood in even potentially facing this fairly UNLIKELY scenario, that it would be, if faced, ultimately "manageable").

Answer yet again this one for you?
Like I've said before in previous posts:
You pays your monies.... ;)
BSBD,
-Grant
coitus non circum - Moab Stone

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My question though, is why does anyone jump a canopy that snivels for a 1000'?



this past weekend i just got under canopy and watched another jumper pull a ways away... i nearly pissed myself watching him pull, snivel, snivel, snivel, snivel, snivel, etc.... back on the trailer, i asked him if something happened on that opening, he stared with a blank expression for a sec... the a look of comprehension filled his eyes. he said "no way dude, this is a spectre"

moral... i guess we all have different comfort levels, i got scared watching what he considered a normal opening. (note: he doesn't roll his nose, or do anything to slow down the opening at all)

(edit: oh yeah... this is at the same dz as the "aad incident in colorado" occured)

-------
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