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Rdutch 0
My Dz uses the New Vector3 Student rigs, Im glad to see they finally got freefly safe student rigs, because most new students want to fly headdown and sitfly right after aff, I dont agree with it, but it happens and with the old student gear, that was a recipe for disaster.
Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!
Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!
riggerrob 558
most new students want to fly headdown and sitfly right after aff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What do you mean by "after AFF?"
I have seen dozens of students do dozens of freefly manuvers long before they got off student status. The only difference is they do not know the names of the manuvers.
Oh, and most of those manuvers were not covered in the pre-jump briefing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What do you mean by "after AFF?"
I have seen dozens of students do dozens of freefly manuvers long before they got off student status. The only difference is they do not know the names of the manuvers.
Oh, and most of those manuvers were not covered in the pre-jump briefing.
bclark 0
We are using Rigging Innovations Telesis student rigs. They are set up with two handle systems and we are teaching students to hand deploy from their first AFF jump with two sided throw out pilot chutes. I like the Telesis because they have clear reserve pin covers and cypres covers on the backpad, also reverse tuck flap on the main pin cover. I think the dual sided hand deploy is a good idea, but could be a little more secure and is very packing specific.
vonSanta 0
I'm a newbie, so please excuse some silly questions.
What is the advantage of the SOS system? Sure you only need to do one action, but you lose a lot of flexibility in the process. It appears to me that skydiving is very dynamic and very odd problems can arise, so wouldn't you want as much flexibility as you can when it comes to solving malfunctions?
Second question; had a discussion with a guy who got certified not long ago. He's had two malfunctions in less than 70 jumps - the latter being an FXC shooting due to him deploying the main too low. Anyhow, talked to him about the emergency procedure and asked him whether the handles were hard to pull. he said 'oh only pulled the cutaway, the lanyard'll deploy the reserve.
So I thought about that for a bit. And am I totally wrong, or isn't there one scenario where a lanyard line will NOT pull the reserve? If, for some reason, you cannot pull out the pin from the loop or the whole package locks up and the main doesn't come out, it seems to me that then tehre'd be nothing to pull the lanyard and then the reserve won't come out automatically despite having a lanyard.
Am I wrong here? I don't know the exact circumstances during his malfunctions, but wouldn't it be prudent to just pull both handles in the correct order instead of rationalizing 'oh is the main out or not, if it is then no need to pull the reserve handle?'. Maybe yer too scared to think about that, and isn't it common sense to just practise one thing til it's ingrained and close to instinctual? This is what I believe and practise, but am I overseeing something? Forgot to ask my instructor about this today but I from what I've heard during theory it seems they strongly implied 'one procedure, same procedure, always' with regards to the handles.
Clarification will be appreciated.
Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst
What is the advantage of the SOS system? Sure you only need to do one action, but you lose a lot of flexibility in the process. It appears to me that skydiving is very dynamic and very odd problems can arise, so wouldn't you want as much flexibility as you can when it comes to solving malfunctions?
Second question; had a discussion with a guy who got certified not long ago. He's had two malfunctions in less than 70 jumps - the latter being an FXC shooting due to him deploying the main too low. Anyhow, talked to him about the emergency procedure and asked him whether the handles were hard to pull. he said 'oh only pulled the cutaway, the lanyard'll deploy the reserve.
So I thought about that for a bit. And am I totally wrong, or isn't there one scenario where a lanyard line will NOT pull the reserve? If, for some reason, you cannot pull out the pin from the loop or the whole package locks up and the main doesn't come out, it seems to me that then tehre'd be nothing to pull the lanyard and then the reserve won't come out automatically despite having a lanyard.
Am I wrong here? I don't know the exact circumstances during his malfunctions, but wouldn't it be prudent to just pull both handles in the correct order instead of rationalizing 'oh is the main out or not, if it is then no need to pull the reserve handle?'. Maybe yer too scared to think about that, and isn't it common sense to just practise one thing til it's ingrained and close to instinctual? This is what I believe and practise, but am I overseeing something? Forgot to ask my instructor about this today but I from what I've heard during theory it seems they strongly implied 'one procedure, same procedure, always' with regards to the handles.
Clarification will be appreciated.
Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst
MattyBoy 0
Thats what I guessed, thanks.
I may be gullible but at least I have a magic fish
I may be gullible but at least I have a magic fish
Tonto 1
We use a 2 handed system, backed up by an RSL.
Australia uses SOS almost exclusivly.
Obviously, if you're going to be a skydiver, you'll end up on a 2 handed emergency system, but you can train to make the change.
I was trained on round mil surplus gear in the mid 1980's, and had to be retrained when I converted to squares. So far so good.
t
Australia uses SOS almost exclusivly.
Obviously, if you're going to be a skydiver, you'll end up on a 2 handed emergency system, but you can train to make the change.
I was trained on round mil surplus gear in the mid 1980's, and had to be retrained when I converted to squares. So far so good.
t
It's the year of the Pig.
pack40 0
Our club uses Zenit containers/harnesses for the newbies with two handle systems c/w RSL for the first round static-line and frefall jumps.
Than Centaurus containers/harnesses for first ram-air jumps also with wo handle systems c/w RSL.
OVER
Than Centaurus containers/harnesses for first ram-air jumps also with wo handle systems c/w RSL.
OVER
Both. SOS on our S/L rigs, Dual on our IAD rigs. We'd like to eventually switch to all IAD w/ dual-handle system, but that takes $$$ that is in short supply these days.
Blues,
Dave
Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)
(drink Mountain Dew)
zerox and vector both on individual cutaway and reserve,
fxc and rsl as standard
fxc and rsl as standard
------------------------
Can You Ere Me Now?
Can You Ere Me Now?
Luna 0
QuoteShould I just get confident enough to go down to a 160 (the smallest I've jumped is a 260) or is it safe enough to carry on mixing up te two systems for a while?
Why is a 160 your only option? Couldn't you buy something in between to ease the transition?
I'm walking a marathon to raise money for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. Click Here for more information!
Alright, a 2 handle system with an RSL does basically the same thing as the SOS, AND students learn proper handle pull sequences. So, once they transistion to "real" gear, they won't have to unlearn something that has become an habit.
There have been incident reports about people pulling the reserve first and getting hurt/dead due to learning on a SOS system.
There have been incident reports about people pulling the reserve first and getting hurt/dead due to learning on a SOS system.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
Luna 0
QuoteSure you only need to do one action, but you lose a lot of flexibility in the process. It appears to me that skydiving is very dynamic and very odd problems can arise, so wouldn't you want as much flexibility as you can when it comes to solving malfunctions?
Not sure why SOS systems are still being used for students...but then I'm not sure why rip cords are still sometimes being used for students either. The argument about flexibility goes out the door when you consider many experienced jumpers use an RSL, which does the same thing, unless you think ahead and disconnect it. Well, at least you have that option, and with an SOS you don't. My DZ had SOS when I started AFF, and while I was still in AFF (but after I had a cutaway on the SOS), he switched to a 2-handled SOS system...either handle performs both functions.
QuoteSecond question; had a discussion with a guy who got certified not long ago. he said 'oh only pulled the cutaway, the lanyard'll deploy the reserve.
Yes, you are absolutely right and he is deadly wrong! NEVER rely on your RSL to deploy your reserve for you! It is there ONLY as a backup system, in case you can't get to your reserve handle for some reason. Not pulling your reserve handle because the RSL will deploy for you is just plain stupid. You are also very correct about ingraining the full procedure. What if he borrows gear sometime that doesn't have an RSL on it, has a malfunction, and then never pulls his reserve? It just doesn't make sense to not practice and use full and proper emergency procedures at all times.
I'm walking a marathon to raise money for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. Click Here for more information!
QuoteWe use new-style Student Javelins with the redundant-safety reserve handle
Archway uses one year-old Wings with this same system. If you pull just your cutaway...hopefully the RSL will yank your reserve. If you pull just your reserve, it cuts away and then pulls the reserve.
I was trained SOS, beofre they got these new rigs. I taught myself two-handles....and practiced it even when I only had one handle to pull. I am glad I was aware enough to always be practicing what my rig actually has....
~Anne
I'm a Doll!!!!
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