LawnDart21 0 #1 August 13, 2003 I would like to take this opportunity to express my complaint with the TSA securty screeners at Chicago's Midway Airport. (MDW). I was returning from vacation on August 8th, 2003 at apporximately 6:30pm, when I placed my sport parachute through the x-ray machine along with my fiance's sport parachuite as well at terminal A. We were told by the screeners that the parachutes were not allowed as carry ons and that we much check them as bagage for the flight. I explained that both parachutes had been flown from Boston's Logan airport 5 days earlier as carry on items on the same airline, examined by the Logan Airport TSA as well as apporved by the airline (ATA). I was spoken to in a stern manor and told that each TSA screening facility operated on it''s own accord, and that Midway TSA refused to allow sport parachutes as carry ons, end of story. I asked for a supervisor, who came over, looked at the sport parachutes, and said "I just looked at them, and the answer is no." At this point, I told him that each parachute was valued in excess of $6,000 and were live saving devises that I refused to had over to baggage handlers, whom could unknowingly damage or tamper with them during the loading process. I was told again, very sternly that there was "no way were getting on the airplane with those parachutes." I showed him a letter from the manufacture of a computer device called an "Automatic activation device", that is located inside the parachute, it is a computer designed to release the reserve parachute in an emergency situation. The letter clearly stated that the United States DOT apporved the device as "non-dangerous" and that it could be brought on an airplane. I asked the supervisor to show me a TSA list, universal to all airports that showed sport parachutes as a banned item, which he refused to do. I said, if you cannot show me that this is a banned item, then I feel I should be able to take it as a carry on item. He said "You can't, it's too heavy." (This excuse was given 20 minutes into our conversation.) I asked him how much he thought it weighted, to which he would not answer. I then asked him what the carry on weight limit was, again he would not answer. (A sport parachute weights approximately 18 lbs, and is the size of a small back pack, and fits perfectly well in an overhead baggage compartment. At this point, I was getting angery as I felt we had answered all their questions, and that now they were simply being rude and seemed to enjoy it. The bottom line, is that they were refusing us based on personal instinct, rather than on specific regulations. Sport parachutes are not banned items, they fit within the luggae limits of carry ons, and the automatic activation device (called a CYPRES) is deemed by the DOT as non dangerous. I am an American citizen, a tax payer, and a frequent traveler. I have never in my life been so harassed at the airport. I travel frequently with my sport parachute and it is only at Midway that I have ever been refused to board a plane with it as a carry on. I asked for yet another supervisor in this chain of command, and when the next one arrived, I explained the issues, our treatment, the fact our flight was on a final call, and told him that according to the FAA FARs the pilot of the plane had the final say, and at the very least, should he deny us our sport parachutes as carry ons, I would sue the TSA for harassment if we were not allowed to board. At which point, he smiled and said we were all set and could board the plane. Your TSA agents operate from a strict set of guidelines, (or atleast they should be given the scope of their jobs) and I find it unjust that they are given the opportunity to tailor their discretion as they see fit. There needs to be a uniformity in thier actions. I am contacting the United States Parachute Association as well to voice my complaint. I can appreciate the need for heightened security, but blatant harassment of decent, hard working American citizens by TSA agents who lack any customer service skills is not fair to me or to any of the travelling public. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #2 August 13, 2003 Good luck, let us all know if you EVER get a reply. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #3 August 13, 2003 Tom -- Hopefully this is just a formatting issue here on dz.com, but was your original letter of complaint not broken into paragraphs? I find it is more effective when dealing with folks to give them smaller chunks of information to digest. Also, please send a copy of your email to Ed Scott at the USPA. I think he'll be interested in your experience and may be able to help future skydivers traveling through this airport.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alanab 0 #4 August 13, 2003 nicely put, keep us posted on the reply... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #5 August 13, 2003 Did you says EMAILED??? HA!! good luck. I'm with you 100%, I understand your frustration, I'm just hoping you get an answer.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #6 August 13, 2003 I got an automated reply saying that they were reviewing the issue and would get back to me. I'll keep you all posted, if/when I hear anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #7 August 13, 2003 Wow, what a pain in the ass! I can really see both sides of the issue.... You don't want to check in a delicate piece of equipment. Have you considered buying a large container or suitcase that would protect the parachute if it was tossed around? That way you could check it in...... Also Whuffos just don't get skydivers...period. I hate to say this, but if I wasn't a skydiver, I would think it was pretty fishy to have someone bring a parachute on board. I understand your argument.... there is no law to prevent you from bringing a parachute on board. The fact is...when you are in an Airport, you sign away your civil rights...... they can stop you for ANY reason...the color of your hair, skin, anything for any reason. We can thank terrorists for this! These agents make $5.50 an hour and really don't know or care about skydivers...they ARE acting on instinct, after all, that is all they have to go on in many situations. I would just buy a container to put the parachutes in, check it in to baggage and make sure to get the insurance if anything happens to it. A parachute is a means of escape...they probably don't want a potential terrorist to have that option! So...I think your right and wrong at the same time! scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #8 August 13, 2003 I hate to sound like an asshat, but if you want to be taken seriously with a complain letter, make sure you check for spelling mistakes....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #9 August 13, 2003 Scott -- There are a lot of issues surrounding traveling with rigs. I don't know if you've tried it yet or done much research on the topic. There's an awful lot of information here on dz.com. Some (most) skydivers want to carry on their rigs because the high dollar amount is not covered by airline insurance. Further, it would do no good to travel to a skydiving event (say Nationals for instance) and have an insurance check in your hand, but no rig. Additionally, the Transportation Security Administration wants the public to check baggage unlocked. As a matter of fact, if you have a lock on your baggage, the TSA has the authority to break the lock for inspection purposes and they do on a regular basis. Couple this with baggage handlers that have been known to steal from unlocked baggage and, well, I think the problem is pretty obvious. Other skydivers travel with so much equipment that they have no choice but to check at least some of it. It's a serious issue and one without a simple solution.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #10 August 13, 2003 If you read parachutist a month or so ago a girl who checked her rig got it back with the reserve pin almost cut and the canopies unpacked. Its a no win situation for us. I will be driving alot more for now on. I wonder if the airlines realize how much money they are going to lose because of all the problems with the TSA. If they would all be consistant, have their "procedures" in writing, it wouldn't be such a big deal, but with situations as stated above, there is no consistancy from airport to airport. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakyrat 1 #11 August 13, 2003 I never had a problem at Midway and recently flew out of there after Roger's funeral. I flew Southwest and went out about 4;30 PM in the afternoon on a weekday. The screener knew it was a parachute. My Mirage weighs about 18lbs. in a kitbag minus my other gear. My bag etc is within size limits. TSA has a new written policy that was worked out with the USPA and SSK on this whole issue and it is being released to the TSA Security Director's out in the field for comments. Maybe since the TSA has the ass for Mayor Daley they are taking it out on some of the passengers and you just happened to be this particular screeners target. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #12 August 13, 2003 Thanks ASSHAT!! lol This was my prespell check version. I hate it when my job gets in the way of my posting...... I wrote the whole thing while on the phone with an ERISA attorney..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #13 August 13, 2003 hehehe... no sweat.... its just that your post was called "just emailed"Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rendezvous 0 #14 August 13, 2003 I flew out of Newark Airport for the WFFC. At Newark my rig got a good hard look. They checked everyting on me down to emptying even my wallet. I had a fax from USPA with a copy of a letter from American Airlines and the CYPRES letter. Initially the TSA agent said that Parachutes weren't allowed by the airlines but when I showed him the fax, he went back and made a few calls. Came back saying that as long as the airlines was fine and there wasn't any compressed gas canister it would be fine. So they then checked for compressed gas. One of them wanted to open the reserve but the other guy who'd read the fax from USPA that said that the reserve was packed by an FAA certified rigger decided against it. They scaned the rig a couple of times and had some concerns about the spring loaded pilot chute as it looked under the Xray, but then were quite satisfied. They were actually quite interested in knowing more about skydiving and all the formations we do and were very polite through out the process. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #15 August 13, 2003 "It's a serious issue and one without a simple solution." How about educating TSAs? I would gander it would only take them a couple of hours to learn what a sport parachute system is, what a Cypress is and how to look at both through an Xray machine and discern whether or not what they were looking at was indeed a sport parachute system. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #16 August 13, 2003 good luck, I hope you get someones attention there Keep us posted! RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #17 August 13, 2003 I'm flying delta to texas next week, I have a letter from delta which came from USPA but it's dated 1980 something! Not sure how credible it is anymore :( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #18 August 13, 2003 QuoteHow about educating TSAs? Certainly sounds simple doesn't it? Believe it or not, that's not a simple solution. See THIS THREAD about the subject and what the USPA is doing. If you read all the way through the thread, you'll see that education is something that the USPA is working on, but unfortunately, it's not something they actually have control over. Still, progress is being made and you have the USPA to thank for that.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattb 0 #19 August 13, 2003 As a Chicago resident who has logged over 50 flight segments in the past 6 months I have one piece of advice - fly O'Hare. I realize ATA and Southwest don't fly there but if you want to avoid incompetence avoid Midway. Yes you can find a stubborn government employee anyplace - but if carrying your rig on-board is important to you your odds are infintely better at ORD. It's worth a few extra $$$. Even our anti-aviation mayor has publicly commented on the irregularities associated with Midway's TSA implementation. Without a parachute I have had enough problems that I simply avoid the airport. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #20 August 13, 2003 Here's a question. I know USPA and the TSA are working on this, and policy is getting updated to reflect that work. However, would it be helpful if a rigger that lives near a major airport called the local TSA manager and offered to come out and do a "show and tell" session with the agents? Meaning, bring a rig out (reserve unpacked) and actually SHOW the people what all the parts are, what is inside there, what that coiled metal thing is that shows up on xray, etc? I guess it would be up to the TSA managers, but maybe it's something that some of the riggers around the country could start trying? I think I might suggest this to our riggers and see what they say.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #21 August 13, 2003 It's harder than you think to get out of a passenger jet in flight. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #22 August 13, 2003 It's harder to get out of a pasanger jet in flight? Why is that? scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #23 August 13, 2003 Almost all jet doors are held shut by the pressure difference between the inside and outside of the aircraft. Tons of force (not simply a lot, but actual tons) would be required to open them.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #24 August 14, 2003 If the airlines and the TSA are worried about people trying to get out of aiplanes mid flight, then they need to stop showing chick movies in flight, like "How to Lose a guy in 10 days". Hey, atleast they give us barf bags.......... "It's not the turbulence, it's the acting.....BARF!!!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #25 August 14, 2003 I doubt that many airlines are worried about it at all. The TSA guys on the other hand, probably don't know that for the most part it's not possible. On the other hand -- it HAS happened on more than one occasion. So, there definately is a precident.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
