phonics1981 0 #1 September 21, 2003 I'm just wondering about peoples views on cutaways, particularly newbies. Ive got 17 jumps (1 away from Cat 8!) and was reading a post about how people have 1000's of jumps and no cutaways and got me thinking that i'd prefer a malfunction soon. Not a horseshoe or anything complicated but maybe a lineover or something. At the moment Ive got the thought in my head saying "can i handle a mal?". I dont really want to have this thought in my head for 1000 jumps. I would prefer the piece of mind gained from KNOWING i can handle a mal. I'm pretty sure I could handle a mal as i think ive been trained well enough to remain calm and go through the drills and come out of it ok but without having gone through them for real the thought is always in the back of my mind. Obviously id prefer to go through my jumping career without a mal or cutaway but chances are that it IS going to happen so i'd feel happier knowing soon that I can handle it. What do you think? ------------------------------------------------------ "Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!" ------------------------------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #2 September 21, 2003 Personally, I don't think that it is such a bad thing to have it in your head at 1000+ jumps. I would argue that the reason people last a long time without having a mal is awareness in the sport. Let's face it... Whoever said that 'personal failure provides a person with experience' was not a SKYDIVER. (That sounds like a funny T-shirt. LOL) Try to learn from other peoples failure and be safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phonics1981 0 #3 September 21, 2003 I totally agree with you saying that people who last a long time without a mal have awareness in the sport. But the same people who have this awareness may well have a mal tomorrow. Although planning and awareness can stop most mals, a canopy is a mechanical object and as such, will be open to a malfunction regardless of the planning. A car is designed not to fuck up, but they do. ------------------------------------------------------ "Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!" ------------------------------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phonics1981 0 #4 September 21, 2003 And also, do these people with loads of jumps and no cutaways become complacent? Do they think that "I plan to perfection everytime"? After 1000+ jumps and no cutaways most people would probably become TOO confident with their attention to awareness and detail. On the other hand, those with 1000+ jumps could think on every jump, "i'm due a mal" so could be more aware. ? ------------------------------------------------------ "Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!" ------------------------------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #5 September 21, 2003 Honestly, I've never been in a car accident either. Since when are cars designed "not to fuck up"? In my opinion, vehicles are design to withstand the fuck-ups that the drivers/owners impose. True, I don't think that skydiving gear is designed to not fuck up. If it were, we wouldn't have cut-away or reserve handles. But if you run out of gas on the highway, you pull over to the side of the road and call AAA. This is a pretty forgiving philosophy. And I would argue that most people are aware that there is little danger on the ground. In this sense, modern day outlook doesn't promote the self discipline of knowing your equipment. Last I checked, there weren't any rigging lofts at 3000 feet and Mark Kruze doesn't provide canopy-side assistance (although, he is good enough at crew to get close to you up there. LOL). Most good pilots are aware of this. Are canopy pilots designed to fuck up? This probably depends on their background...don't you think? QuoteAlthough planning and awareness can stop most mals... And you also just said that, "a canopy is a mechanical object and as such, will be open to a malfunction regardless of the planning." Honestly, your approach on this is disconcerting. Dude, if you have this kind of outlook, you may be in for the reserve ride of your life - And sooner than you think. I doubt that people with thousands of jumps go into it with an attitude like this. On EVERY skydive I have at least one malfunction in my head. Re-funnel that negative energy into thinking about your gear, flying safety, a nine-point check before getting on (or out of) the plane, rehearsing the skydive all the way to deplyment and canopy check, etc., etc. What are you thinking about during the process of getting to the DZ, manifesting, organizing, and jumping? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #6 September 21, 2003 1) Nope, I doubt it. They just get better at it. Experienced skydivers may seem complacent at times. It seems to me that after this many jumps, the learning curve slows down. The same level of concern is there, but it becomes part of us and I (for one) am comfortable with that. It doesn't cause me to be self-satisfied or unconcerned with my skill-level. Yes, I believe the reason why we may seem this way is because of "confidence". Although, who ever said that confidence breeds complacency? It probably is just the opposite. 2) Yes QuoteOn the other hand, those with 1000+ jumps could think on every jump, "i'm due a mal" so could be more aware. 3) Now you are getting it. This is what I mean by "FUNNELING" bad energy the correct way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phonics1981 0 #7 September 21, 2003 I think youve overlooked my point. I'm as safe as I possibly can be. I totally agree with everything youve said but at the same time mals happen to people who are safe and aware and those that mals HAVE happened to wouldnt call themselves unsafe. All i'm saying is that on average mals do happen to the majority after a lot of jumps and IMO i'd rather KNOW i can deal with it rather than hope I can. Please dont think i'm tempting fate or going into anything with an "attitude". I'm simply sayin knowing is better than not knowing. And maybe me comparing a rig to a car was not the best comparison but all i was trying to get across is that anything mechanical can malfunction regardless or preparation. I dont think that people who have mals are unsafe or unprepared (in most instances) and I doubt they do either. ------------------------------------------------------ "Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!" ------------------------------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #8 September 21, 2003 I'm not meaning to sound strict or on-edge. Just giving my opinion on the subject. My home DZ happens to be a place with some of the best/safest canopy pilots in the world. There are commonalities amongst people who are successful in the sport. It is a good idea for the majority of us to find out what they are and practice these philosophies on a regular basis. And this has simply been my interpretation of this commonality. I just hope some of this info helps you out. -David Blue Sky's Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites scottjaco 0 #9 September 22, 2003 I have close to 100 jumps...... I don't want a malfunction..... reason? 1) I don't want to damage my main canapy (line over, tears in the fabric ect.) 2) I don't want to go looking for freebag and main afterwards 3) I don't want to pay for the reserve repack! If I was on rented gear in would be a different story. I haven't yet had a malfunction that resulted in a cut-away.....I know I can handle it when it happens because I practice emergency procedures before every jump! Saying that you want to have a cut away is foolish! The reserve is your LAST CHANCE to live, you don't want to use it unless you HAVE TO! It would be like me saying "dude, I hope I hook it in too low and bounce....just to see whats its like!" Pack your own chute! CAREFULLY! this will greatly reduce your chances of a cutaway! scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BETO74 0 #10 September 22, 2003 Do you want a cut away try with a 3rd canopy ina special rig that allows you to cut away your main and reserve just in case. that's to leran ona control enviroment open high cut away your main open your reserve with the safety of a 3rd canopy. I'll sign in for the jump as soon is available in my DZ..Sorry if I'm out line here I did not bother to read all the post'shttp://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phonics1981 0 #11 September 22, 2003 QuoteDo you want a cut away try with a 3rd canopy ina special rig that allows you to cut away your main and reserve just in case. that's to leran ona control enviroment open high cut away your main open your reserve with the safety of a 3rd canopy. I'll sign in for the jump as soon is available in my DZ..Sorry if I'm out line here I did not bother to read all the post's Thats probably a good idea, cheers I'm not looking to unneccisarily endanger myself, I know its sill WANTING to use my last chance, I'm merely stating that it would be a good learning experience so maybe trying it with 3 canopy is the best way to go about it. Thanks for all your input. ------------------------------------------------------ "Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!" ------------------------------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Peej 0 #12 September 22, 2003 I had my first mal about two weeks ago on jump number 32. As far as i'm concerned this was a fairly tame mal as i was under a canopy i couldn't steer. Am i glad i've had my first cutaway? Yes. Has it increased my confidence? Yes. However i believe that what you put into skydiving is what you get out. Be prepared, practice your reserve drills in the plane, on the ground, in bed at night and even in the shower. But don't ever arrive at the DZ or get in the plane thinking: "is this gonna be the one?" Positive thinking breeds good jumping. peace Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phonics1981 0 #13 September 22, 2003 Thats exactly what I was trying to get at! Youve had a tame mal and got through it fine. Now you feel more confident about it. Thats all I was saying in the beginning, maybe I worded it wrongly? Beleive me I practice my reserve drills all the time and dont ever go to the DZ with a negative attitude. It was when I was sitting at home last night reading the post about 1000's of jumps and no cutaways when I thought about it, not at the DZ!! I hope I havent came across as an accident waiting to happen. I merely wanted to know exactly what Peej has told me! ------------------------------------------------------ "Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!" ------------------------------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Alambic 0 #14 September 22, 2003 I understand your point of view... I don t want to have tu cut away, but I would feel more confortable to have already done one in the past... All of this for a simple reason: when shit happens, you can experience brainlock, and I still don t know if I would... I know at least three cases (not cutaways, but low turns) where someone in a bad situation did exactly the opposite of what he should have done, for brainlocking... And I would feel more confident to know I am not in this case...Alambic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #15 September 22, 2003 Personally, I have 290 jumps and no cutaways (knocks on big f*ckin wood!!), and I either pack my rig very carefully, or have someone I trust and know is careful pack it. But still, there are no guarantees, so I check all my handles at least three times on the way to altitude. Remember dude, we may be used to being in freefall, and we may be used to minor mals (line twists, etc.), but we have to be prepared for when we do get cutaways, cuz the difference between laying back on the plane and spending time going through your emergency procedures could mean the difference between life and death. Personally, I choose life. It'll come one day, and when it does, be ready for it and (hopefully) you'll be fine. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MaDMiKeY007 0 #16 September 22, 2003 Having my cutaway at jump 19, i think was good and bad. Bad mals are bad. Good i handled it well and i am still jumping. I remembered my training and i am still alive. You sound like you will too phonics. If it happens it will, if not lucky you. Also ive read in Parachutist, always read the incident report. people with 1000+s of jumps have died because they have forgot what to do in a malfuction, and panic. "When in doubt, get it (reserve) OUT!" BLUE SKIES ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JumpCrazy 0 #17 September 22, 2003 My reserve is due for a repack within the next month. So, I am going to do an intentional cutaway(with a belly reserve just in case) within a couple of weeks. I think it is a good idea to experience a cutaway, although it would be different in an actual emergency. Also, my reserve has never been used, and I would like to see how it flies before I need it in an emergency.Flying Hellfish #470 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KATO33 0 #18 September 23, 2003 QuoteAnd also, do these people with loads of jumps and no cutaways become complacent? Do they think that "I plan to perfection everytime"? After 1000+ jumps and no cutaways most people would probably become TOO confident with their attention to awareness and detail. I believe the opposite would be true. After you've done 1000's of jump you know exactly what a "good" parachute should look like and wouldn't hesitate to chop a mal. I don't think someone with that much experience would think to themselves "this can't be a malfunction I've packed the same way for the past 1289 jumps this ball of shit will eventually work it's way out." Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phonics1981 0 #19 September 23, 2003 Quote I believe the opposite would be true. After you've done 1000's of jump you know exactly what a "good" parachute should look like and wouldn't hesitate to chop a mal. I don't think someone with that much experience would think to themselves "this can't be a malfunction I've packed the same way for the past 1289 jumps this ball of shit will eventually work it's way out." Thats why I continued on to say ...On the other hand, those with 1000+ jumps could think on every jump, "i'm due a mal" so could be more aware. ... ------------------------------------------------------ "Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!" ------------------------------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyhpp 0 #20 September 23, 2003 Back in the bad old days (early 80's) our club had a mandatory cutaway test as part of your student progression - typically it was on your first jump with a square (hop 'n pop) - fly it around a little, then do an intentional cut away and deploy your round reserve. We carried an additional front mount reserve as a backup. It was one of the best experiences I ever had - it was scary, but it really burnt the emergency procedures into your brain, and gave you confidence in your own abilities and in your equipment. Since square reserves have been around this particular test as been removed from the program, because of the potential hazards associated with a 2 reserves out scenario (square & round or square & square) - so before you attempt to go ahead with an intentional chop, ask your CI as to how you should go about it, bearing in mind the potential hazards associated with the second reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #21 September 23, 2003 Please remember, if you do an intentional cutaway with a rig that does not permit you to also breakaway from your ram air reserve, and said reserve malfunctions, you are most likely dead. Your belly mount reserve is probably not going to do you much good. Please think about it before you take such an unnecessary risk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites relyon 0 #22 September 23, 2003 Quote... rig that does not permit you to also breakaway from your ram air reserve, and said reserve malfunctions, you are most likely dead. ... I certainly wouldn't give up that easily! I'd be pulling out my hook knife and performing a real cutaway. A reserve malfunction is a risk we assume on every jump. If one doesn't trust their gear to work properly and the reserve to open under the best of breakaway circumstances, why trust it any other time? Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jsaxton 0 #23 September 23, 2003 An intentional cutaway using a tertiary rig requires a C license (have to double check that, meby it's a B). This would most likely not simulate a real malfunction unless you want to pack a line over and risk damage to the first canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivejersey 0 #24 September 23, 2003 I am looking forward to my first mal. Should be a rush. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jethers203 0 #25 September 23, 2003 I have around 550 jumps and don't have any unintentional cutaways, but last weekend at the AOTMB I did an intentional cutaway using the RWS's (Relative Workshop) rig equipped with the skyhook. The rig was specially designed to accomodate a belly reserve, and the thing worked like a champ. I exited from 13,500 took it down to 7,000 dumped the main (PD 210) played under it untill 2,000 ft went into a spin and cutaway the main. The skyhook worked awesome and the reserve (PD 176) was out before I could look up. The thing worked great. Anyway, I never had a cutaway until last weekend and it was planned. It really gave me a safer feeling about the way I would deal with a mal in the future. You should check into trying one out someday. 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scottjaco 0 #9 September 22, 2003 I have close to 100 jumps...... I don't want a malfunction..... reason? 1) I don't want to damage my main canapy (line over, tears in the fabric ect.) 2) I don't want to go looking for freebag and main afterwards 3) I don't want to pay for the reserve repack! If I was on rented gear in would be a different story. I haven't yet had a malfunction that resulted in a cut-away.....I know I can handle it when it happens because I practice emergency procedures before every jump! Saying that you want to have a cut away is foolish! The reserve is your LAST CHANCE to live, you don't want to use it unless you HAVE TO! It would be like me saying "dude, I hope I hook it in too low and bounce....just to see whats its like!" Pack your own chute! CAREFULLY! this will greatly reduce your chances of a cutaway! scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BETO74 0 #10 September 22, 2003 Do you want a cut away try with a 3rd canopy ina special rig that allows you to cut away your main and reserve just in case. that's to leran ona control enviroment open high cut away your main open your reserve with the safety of a 3rd canopy. I'll sign in for the jump as soon is available in my DZ..Sorry if I'm out line here I did not bother to read all the post'shttp://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phonics1981 0 #11 September 22, 2003 QuoteDo you want a cut away try with a 3rd canopy ina special rig that allows you to cut away your main and reserve just in case. that's to leran ona control enviroment open high cut away your main open your reserve with the safety of a 3rd canopy. I'll sign in for the jump as soon is available in my DZ..Sorry if I'm out line here I did not bother to read all the post's Thats probably a good idea, cheers I'm not looking to unneccisarily endanger myself, I know its sill WANTING to use my last chance, I'm merely stating that it would be a good learning experience so maybe trying it with 3 canopy is the best way to go about it. Thanks for all your input. ------------------------------------------------------ "Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!" ------------------------------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #12 September 22, 2003 I had my first mal about two weeks ago on jump number 32. As far as i'm concerned this was a fairly tame mal as i was under a canopy i couldn't steer. Am i glad i've had my first cutaway? Yes. Has it increased my confidence? Yes. However i believe that what you put into skydiving is what you get out. Be prepared, practice your reserve drills in the plane, on the ground, in bed at night and even in the shower. But don't ever arrive at the DZ or get in the plane thinking: "is this gonna be the one?" Positive thinking breeds good jumping. peace Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phonics1981 0 #13 September 22, 2003 Thats exactly what I was trying to get at! Youve had a tame mal and got through it fine. Now you feel more confident about it. Thats all I was saying in the beginning, maybe I worded it wrongly? Beleive me I practice my reserve drills all the time and dont ever go to the DZ with a negative attitude. It was when I was sitting at home last night reading the post about 1000's of jumps and no cutaways when I thought about it, not at the DZ!! I hope I havent came across as an accident waiting to happen. I merely wanted to know exactly what Peej has told me! ------------------------------------------------------ "Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!" ------------------------------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alambic 0 #14 September 22, 2003 I understand your point of view... I don t want to have tu cut away, but I would feel more confortable to have already done one in the past... All of this for a simple reason: when shit happens, you can experience brainlock, and I still don t know if I would... I know at least three cases (not cutaways, but low turns) where someone in a bad situation did exactly the opposite of what he should have done, for brainlocking... And I would feel more confident to know I am not in this case...Alambic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #15 September 22, 2003 Personally, I have 290 jumps and no cutaways (knocks on big f*ckin wood!!), and I either pack my rig very carefully, or have someone I trust and know is careful pack it. But still, there are no guarantees, so I check all my handles at least three times on the way to altitude. Remember dude, we may be used to being in freefall, and we may be used to minor mals (line twists, etc.), but we have to be prepared for when we do get cutaways, cuz the difference between laying back on the plane and spending time going through your emergency procedures could mean the difference between life and death. Personally, I choose life. It'll come one day, and when it does, be ready for it and (hopefully) you'll be fine. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaDMiKeY007 0 #16 September 22, 2003 Having my cutaway at jump 19, i think was good and bad. Bad mals are bad. Good i handled it well and i am still jumping. I remembered my training and i am still alive. You sound like you will too phonics. If it happens it will, if not lucky you. Also ive read in Parachutist, always read the incident report. people with 1000+s of jumps have died because they have forgot what to do in a malfuction, and panic. "When in doubt, get it (reserve) OUT!" BLUE SKIES ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JumpCrazy 0 #17 September 22, 2003 My reserve is due for a repack within the next month. So, I am going to do an intentional cutaway(with a belly reserve just in case) within a couple of weeks. I think it is a good idea to experience a cutaway, although it would be different in an actual emergency. Also, my reserve has never been used, and I would like to see how it flies before I need it in an emergency.Flying Hellfish #470 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KATO33 0 #18 September 23, 2003 QuoteAnd also, do these people with loads of jumps and no cutaways become complacent? Do they think that "I plan to perfection everytime"? After 1000+ jumps and no cutaways most people would probably become TOO confident with their attention to awareness and detail. I believe the opposite would be true. After you've done 1000's of jump you know exactly what a "good" parachute should look like and wouldn't hesitate to chop a mal. I don't think someone with that much experience would think to themselves "this can't be a malfunction I've packed the same way for the past 1289 jumps this ball of shit will eventually work it's way out." Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phonics1981 0 #19 September 23, 2003 Quote I believe the opposite would be true. After you've done 1000's of jump you know exactly what a "good" parachute should look like and wouldn't hesitate to chop a mal. I don't think someone with that much experience would think to themselves "this can't be a malfunction I've packed the same way for the past 1289 jumps this ball of shit will eventually work it's way out." Thats why I continued on to say ...On the other hand, those with 1000+ jumps could think on every jump, "i'm due a mal" so could be more aware. ... ------------------------------------------------------ "Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!" ------------------------------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyhpp 0 #20 September 23, 2003 Back in the bad old days (early 80's) our club had a mandatory cutaway test as part of your student progression - typically it was on your first jump with a square (hop 'n pop) - fly it around a little, then do an intentional cut away and deploy your round reserve. We carried an additional front mount reserve as a backup. It was one of the best experiences I ever had - it was scary, but it really burnt the emergency procedures into your brain, and gave you confidence in your own abilities and in your equipment. Since square reserves have been around this particular test as been removed from the program, because of the potential hazards associated with a 2 reserves out scenario (square & round or square & square) - so before you attempt to go ahead with an intentional chop, ask your CI as to how you should go about it, bearing in mind the potential hazards associated with the second reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #21 September 23, 2003 Please remember, if you do an intentional cutaway with a rig that does not permit you to also breakaway from your ram air reserve, and said reserve malfunctions, you are most likely dead. Your belly mount reserve is probably not going to do you much good. Please think about it before you take such an unnecessary risk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites relyon 0 #22 September 23, 2003 Quote... rig that does not permit you to also breakaway from your ram air reserve, and said reserve malfunctions, you are most likely dead. ... I certainly wouldn't give up that easily! I'd be pulling out my hook knife and performing a real cutaway. A reserve malfunction is a risk we assume on every jump. If one doesn't trust their gear to work properly and the reserve to open under the best of breakaway circumstances, why trust it any other time? Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jsaxton 0 #23 September 23, 2003 An intentional cutaway using a tertiary rig requires a C license (have to double check that, meby it's a B). This would most likely not simulate a real malfunction unless you want to pack a line over and risk damage to the first canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivejersey 0 #24 September 23, 2003 I am looking forward to my first mal. Should be a rush. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jethers203 0 #25 September 23, 2003 I have around 550 jumps and don't have any unintentional cutaways, but last weekend at the AOTMB I did an intentional cutaway using the RWS's (Relative Workshop) rig equipped with the skyhook. The rig was specially designed to accomodate a belly reserve, and the thing worked like a champ. I exited from 13,500 took it down to 7,000 dumped the main (PD 210) played under it untill 2,000 ft went into a spin and cutaway the main. The skyhook worked awesome and the reserve (PD 176) was out before I could look up. The thing worked great. Anyway, I never had a cutaway until last weekend and it was planned. It really gave me a safer feeling about the way I would deal with a mal in the future. You should check into trying one out someday. Clint D-24352 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
JumpCrazy 0 #17 September 22, 2003 My reserve is due for a repack within the next month. So, I am going to do an intentional cutaway(with a belly reserve just in case) within a couple of weeks. I think it is a good idea to experience a cutaway, although it would be different in an actual emergency. Also, my reserve has never been used, and I would like to see how it flies before I need it in an emergency.Flying Hellfish #470 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KATO33 0 #18 September 23, 2003 QuoteAnd also, do these people with loads of jumps and no cutaways become complacent? Do they think that "I plan to perfection everytime"? After 1000+ jumps and no cutaways most people would probably become TOO confident with their attention to awareness and detail. I believe the opposite would be true. After you've done 1000's of jump you know exactly what a "good" parachute should look like and wouldn't hesitate to chop a mal. I don't think someone with that much experience would think to themselves "this can't be a malfunction I've packed the same way for the past 1289 jumps this ball of shit will eventually work it's way out." Blue Skies Black Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phonics1981 0 #19 September 23, 2003 Quote I believe the opposite would be true. After you've done 1000's of jump you know exactly what a "good" parachute should look like and wouldn't hesitate to chop a mal. I don't think someone with that much experience would think to themselves "this can't be a malfunction I've packed the same way for the past 1289 jumps this ball of shit will eventually work it's way out." Thats why I continued on to say ...On the other hand, those with 1000+ jumps could think on every jump, "i'm due a mal" so could be more aware. ... ------------------------------------------------------ "Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!" ------------------------------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhpp 0 #20 September 23, 2003 Back in the bad old days (early 80's) our club had a mandatory cutaway test as part of your student progression - typically it was on your first jump with a square (hop 'n pop) - fly it around a little, then do an intentional cut away and deploy your round reserve. We carried an additional front mount reserve as a backup. It was one of the best experiences I ever had - it was scary, but it really burnt the emergency procedures into your brain, and gave you confidence in your own abilities and in your equipment. Since square reserves have been around this particular test as been removed from the program, because of the potential hazards associated with a 2 reserves out scenario (square & round or square & square) - so before you attempt to go ahead with an intentional chop, ask your CI as to how you should go about it, bearing in mind the potential hazards associated with the second reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #21 September 23, 2003 Please remember, if you do an intentional cutaway with a rig that does not permit you to also breakaway from your ram air reserve, and said reserve malfunctions, you are most likely dead. Your belly mount reserve is probably not going to do you much good. Please think about it before you take such an unnecessary risk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
relyon 0 #22 September 23, 2003 Quote... rig that does not permit you to also breakaway from your ram air reserve, and said reserve malfunctions, you are most likely dead. ... I certainly wouldn't give up that easily! I'd be pulling out my hook knife and performing a real cutaway. A reserve malfunction is a risk we assume on every jump. If one doesn't trust their gear to work properly and the reserve to open under the best of breakaway circumstances, why trust it any other time? Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #23 September 23, 2003 An intentional cutaway using a tertiary rig requires a C license (have to double check that, meby it's a B). This would most likely not simulate a real malfunction unless you want to pack a line over and risk damage to the first canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #24 September 23, 2003 I am looking forward to my first mal. Should be a rush. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #25 September 23, 2003 I have around 550 jumps and don't have any unintentional cutaways, but last weekend at the AOTMB I did an intentional cutaway using the RWS's (Relative Workshop) rig equipped with the skyhook. The rig was specially designed to accomodate a belly reserve, and the thing worked like a champ. I exited from 13,500 took it down to 7,000 dumped the main (PD 210) played under it untill 2,000 ft went into a spin and cutaway the main. The skyhook worked awesome and the reserve (PD 176) was out before I could look up. The thing worked great. Anyway, I never had a cutaway until last weekend and it was planned. It really gave me a safer feeling about the way I would deal with a mal in the future. You should check into trying one out someday. Clint D-24352 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
