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Skystorm

Landing advice

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I need advice on my landing skills.

I have 44 jumps and jump a ZP170. I'm a very small person (1.60m short and weigh 55kg).

I tend to overshoot my landing spots. When I jump at the coast it's not such a big problem because we land in a desert without any real danger of hurting yourself. I don't overshoot that much (about 4-5m) at sealevel.

Now my problem is that my home DZ lies 4000ft above sealevel so the air is much thinner and my canopy much faster. And there's a lot of trees and buildings, so the danger of hurting myself is much more real. I've tried making my approach longer, but that still doesn't seem to help.
I feel that I'm not experienced enough to hook my canopy and I doubt if I ever will.

Any advice as to pick a spot and land on it? I would really appreciate it, seeing that I want to get my licence to do show jumps and my accuracy is up to s^$t.


Gene Police: "YOU!! Out of the pool, NOW!!!"

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If there's wind and not too many people in the sky after you, you can add a little bit of brake to slow you forward speed (just remember to let them back up with time to spare for landing ;))
-----------------------------------
It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

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Try to read this article, I know it helped me a lot..

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/survival.pdf

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I feel that I'm not experienced enough to hook my canopy and I doubt if I ever will



You will, trust me, I tought the same way, but about from jump 80 or so, I've started to carve with the dive loops when I land, and I'm getting better every time..

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Try to read this article, I know it helped me a lot..

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/survival.pdf

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I feel that I'm not experienced enough to hook my canopy and I doubt if I ever will



You will, trust me, I tought the same way, but about from jump 80 or so, I've started to carve with the dive loops when I land, and I'm getting better every time..



But do not rush it, always remember the three most useless things in skydiving are
1)altitude above you
2)landing area behind you
3)and a 10th of a second ago

In the past year I have watched 4 of my friends hook themselves in, luckily none ended in fatalities, but one skydiver is out of the sprot completely. Yes good safe carves are a thing for you and I in the future, but don't rush it, learn to walk before you run. Longevity is the key. :)
blue ones
quatorze

I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle

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Yes good safe carves are a thing for you and I in the future, but don't rush it, learn to walk before you run.



Yeah, I know, I think I'll be doing carve landings for the next 200-300 jumps, just tried to save skystorm from frustration.. ;)

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4000ft above sealevel so the air is much thinner and my canopy much faster



anyone else see a contradiction in this?

I understand your canopy forward speed will be higher, but its rate of descent will also be much faster... in thinner air, your approach angle will be steeper then at see level, or am I all fubared?!
Remster

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in thinner air, your approach angle will be steeper



That's exactly my problem. Combine that with wind speeds that's never the same on any jump, even if you do more than one jump on the same day.
It seems to me that I have difficulty judging (sp?) my angle and forward speed.


Gene Police: "YOU!! Out of the pool, NOW!!!"

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If there's wind and not too many people in the sky after you, you can add a little bit of brake to slow you forward speed (just remember to let them back up with time to spare for landing ;))



I used to do this when I was newer. explain what I was doing wrong so YOU wont have to. like sonic stated (just remember to let them back up with time to spare for landing ;))[/

I would hold my brakes at around half( I was under a 260 . it allows for brakes and little chance of stalling if you are light)
what I would do though is hold half brake too long then I would let up on the brakes too late and try to flare. this causes you nose to dive, how much depends on your Canopy. like I sai dI was under at 260 so my landings were pretty soft but not rough for a 260.

when I started jumping smaller canopies my landing were getting harder and harder, until one of our freinds here eplianed to me what I have explained to you.I had the added help of visual guidance when he told me, I hope youre not confused! since then....smooth landings. accuracy took a little more time!
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You know the accuracy trick for the spot where you're going to land yeah? Look at a spot on the ground in front of you - if this spot appears to be moving down, you will overshoot that spot if nothing else changes. If it moves up, you will undershoot it.
-----------------------------------
It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

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I have difficulty judging (sp?) my angle and forward speed



I've found the best document on the subject was on PD's site that was linked above. It takes pratice but if at 44 jumps, you land 4 to 5m away (at one DZ), I'd say your on your way to have pretty good accuracy overall...
Remster

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Try to read this article, I know it helped me a lot..

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/survival.pdf

Quote

I feel that I'm not experienced enough to hook my canopy and I doubt if I ever will



You will, trust me,



That's not necessarily true. I jump with a lot of folks with thousands of jumps that don't hook at all, ever. I also jump with folks that do. All of the broken legs I have seen have come from the hooking group.

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>in thinner air, your approach angle will be steeper then at see level,
> or am I all fubared?!

No, your approach will be the same; glide doesn't change with altitude. In a headwind it will seem flatter since the higher speed will give you better penetration.

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>>I feel that I'm not experienced enough to hook my canopy and I
>> doubt if I ever will

>You will, trust me, I tought the same way, but about from jump 80 or
> so, I've started to carve with the dive loops when I land, and I'm
> getting better every time..

Hmm, I've got about 3000 jumps, jump a 1.7 to 1 canopy and I almost never hook. Some people just don't care to do it.

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I would just S-turn until you get to an altitude that will put you on target.. You have to make it a best estimate..

You can also s-turn in say 1/3 brakes over 100 feet so the speed doesn't overwhelm you. Go 90 degrees left of the target flat turn 90 degrees right of the target paying attention to altitude. Keep it slow and smooth until you hit a decent straight in lane..

Practice up high.. I think on "Fly like a pro" Brian Germain mentioned the accuracy trick that could also be used..

Hope that helped,

Rhino

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trouble with that is if you have traffic behind you. Another thing to do is watch people on the lifts before yours and watch what they're doing - ie how far past the arrow they're going etc
-----------------------------------
It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

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trouble with that is if you have traffic behind you.



I agree completely. I have always wondered about that. The comment about s-turns is always made, but them most busy DZs frown upon it happening. I also have a question about lading in breaks. Often I have heard or read the remark: "sinking into someone's backyard in deep brakes". But then I read the reamrks that in no to low wind days flying your approach in deep brakes would actually lengthen your glide.... Hopefully some of the more experienced canopy pilots can explain.

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Without knowing specifically how well you fly or the geography of where you're trying to currently jump, this might be a bit difficult, but I can give some generic advice.

First, have you ever noticed how small airplanes usually fly into airports?

How do you think it's possible for them to visit airports across the country at all sorts of different altitudes and conditions and still make fairly accurate landings?

The secret, it turns out, isn't the fact that they have power, but rather that the good pilots have a plan; fly into the traffic pattern at such-and-such altitude and so-and-so airspeed, on downwind and abeam the numbers (where they intend to land) reduce the throttle a certain amount and continue downwind until a certain distance and angle to the numbers, then turn base, check airspeed and altitude and maybe reduce the throttle some more depending on how it's going, when lined up with the runways, check the airspeed and altitude again and compare it to what would be expected and on it goes until the moment of touchdown.

So, what can we learn from this?

Basic landing accuracy begins with consistency and discipline on the part of the skydiver in flying an accurate pattern. That said, accuracy is a secondary goal and should be abandoned for the sake of safety whenever there is an immediate concern to avoid other canopies. Fortunately, basic accuracy can be practiced on every jump, so if canopy traffic demands you abort on one attempt, you can try it again the very next jump.

In the attached illustration, the wind is shown coming from the top of the page and the skydiver would want to land facing this wind.

The “X” represents the target. This might be the pea pit or maybe a particular brown spot on the grass. Whatever it is, use this particular spot on a consistent basis. Until you have basic accuracy nailed down, you might want to find a spot to use that isn’t in the middle of where everyone else is trying to land. This will help ensure it’s available for you to use.

The “Key” is a point where you’ll begin all of your approaches. The “Key” is located several hundred feet upwind and several hundred feet to the side of the target. Its exact location will depend on the flight characteristics of your particular canopy. As a starting point, you might try a spot 500 feet upwind and 500 feet to the side to begin with and refine it from there.

You’ll plan all of your canopy flights so that you’ll be 1,000 feet directly over the “Key” and turn downwind.

Fly directly downwind and note the speed of the winds.

In a no-wind situation, you might fly about as far past the target on the downwind as your “Key” is upwind. The stronger the winds, the shorter you’ll make your downwind leg. Note your altitude as you turn “base”. Every time you land, make a mental note of the winds and how far you flew past the target on the downwind.

Try not to focus so much on specific landmarks, but rather the angles, altitudes and distances to the target. This way, when you travel to another drop zone, you’ll be able to recognize almost immediately where the key, downwind, base and final ought to be in relation to the target.

At touchdown, note how close you came to the actual target. In a no-wind situation, if you flew 100 feet past the target, you’ll only need to lengthen the downwind leg by about 50 feet. If you landed 100 feet short, then you’ll need to shorten the downwind by about 50 feet to correct.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

BasicLandingAccuracy.jpg

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Before I post this I would like to say that I only have 21 jumps and that I am still very excited by this event.

Yesterday I read this very thread in the morning. About lunch time I magically found myself at the dz (hey its Friday...) and my second jump was not only had my closest landing to the target (large orange X in the peas) but I landed with my left foot in the middle of the X.

I would like to thank those who have added comment to the thread and to Lauri for posting the link to Survival Skills for Canapy Control. I felt much better about how to gauge my landing target and give credit to everyone here.

DTOXX

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but I landed with my left foot in the middle of the X.



THAT's a case of Beer!

If you can 'cookie' on jump #21 you;re either very lucky or very good... certainly better than your 21 jumps you have either way. It took me 79 jumps to hit the 12" disc - and given the mayhem of that particular jump I had no belief the landing would be any better than the rest of the jump (slammer opening from a not-slowed-down-enough sitfly, ...damn near knocked myself out,... lost a contact lens so I had no depth perception, ...sunset load 'light' issues, etc).

Apart from the basic 'stationary point' trick, the best words I'd ever been given were "forget WHERE you land once you set your pattern up, just land safe and smooth".

Keep it up.

Dave


Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

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lost a contact lens so I had no depth perception



Funny that you mention that because I have a problem with depth perception when it comes to landing.

I wear a contact lens in my right eye but not in my left because it wouldn't help. My left eye has the same quality of vision out the front of it as the peripheral vision out of any good eye. As a result of this defect (which I have had since birth) my depth perception is only 20% as good as the norm. This means that it is difficult for me to judge how far from the ground I am.

I have taken on board advice from DZ.Commers that I should look at objects parallel to my vision to judge height rather than looking down at the grass or the heads of other people. I hope to try this out next summer.

I hope I don't get an opening violent enough to shake my contact lens loose. :S I'd be interested to know if yours was a hard or soft lens. It's easier for hard lenses to pop out which is why soft ones are recommended if you take part in sports.
Gerb

I stir feelings in others they themselves don't understand. KA'CHOW !

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