blazetailman 0 #26 August 23, 2003 I know all the reason why dz arn't making money and all that, but I like good, experience and responsible pilots. They have our lives in their hands every busy day. They look after us and no matter how maitained an aircraft is mechanical and atmospheric problems can happen. So what is it 50 cents more per jumper would pay them at the average turbine dropzone. btw thanks for fly us safely. Cheerswww.canopyflightcenter.com www.skydivesac.com www.guanofreefly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #27 August 23, 2003 Diverdriver, sorry it "irks" you, which I think is a bit too strong of a response. Partly it is good old supply and demand, but I have also known pilots who ere ecstatic at the opportunity of getting free hours. As long as YOU aren't being asked to fly for free I don't think it should irk you that others are willing to do so. Please don't misinterpret me on this point--I have great respect for the skills they have and investments that pilots make in order to be pilots. In the past I have done a fair amount of rigging for free, just to hone my skills and make myself more marketable. That doesn't mean I planned on doing it for free forever. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #28 August 23, 2003 QuoteAs long as YOU aren't being asked to fly for free I don't think it should irk you that others are willing to do so. But that's the point. I have had DZs want me to fly for free because others would. They make it hard for people to get a fair wage when they undercut their fellow professionals like that. And what kind of message does it send? You are willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done and keep the job. So that attitude can translate into flying in bad conditions you shouldn't and possibly flying aircraft that aren't being maintained. I'm not talking about a little practice to get competent. We are talking about ops that are never paying their pilots just because they are getting hours. That ain't right. I've seen enough of this type to know it isn't a good situation. If no one on the DZ ever got paid for doing anything there then it would be like a club. And that's a whole nother situation. But most clubs don't have big turbine planes like we are talking here.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzzfink 5 #29 August 23, 2003 <<>>> You get what you pay for usually. Buzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #30 August 23, 2003 QuoteBut the running costs are the same apparently, so overall you make more profit initially out of the XL. And the XL flys more loads per tach hour, and carries more jumpers than the 208, so the profit is there after the initial purchace price.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zyzko 0 #31 August 23, 2003 Quote But most clubs don't have big turbine planes like we are talking here. Yes. The original poster who bruoght this up mentioned a Cessna 182. I don't know about Dennmark, but here in Finland not counting big boogies and competitions jumping is totally club-based and there is no commercial operator running the jumping, so basicly we even can't pay the pilot without getting into trouble with aviation authorities (commercial aviation) and government agencies (taxes). All our pilots fly just for the fun of it, and they really never complain about it (well, sometimes they complain about their favorite soda or pizza being sold out). The picture of course changes dramatically when the dropzone itself is commercially-run and has a big turbine aircraft. -Kari Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #32 August 23, 2003 They do get paid. They get to log flight hours. For free. I should add that flight hours are VERY expensive in Denmark. They have jobs on the side - these are private pilots, doing it for the love of flying, not for a living. If anything, it's a symbiotic relationship where both sides gain something. As for Zyzko in Finland, in Denmark we operate with clubs. We have one commercial DZ and even there they make use of private pilots (with the proper licenses). Add aviation authority bueraucracy and taxes and you'll add 20-30% to the price of a skydive. Denmark is king of taxes after all. Pilots are basically lining up for the job. The chief pilot at my club is, naturally, a SkyGod, oldtime skydiver :D. Commercial pilots come when there are big boogies with big turbine aircraft, but there simply aren't enough active skydivers around in Denmark for any DZ to operate a turbine instead of a small Cessna. Unlike in the US, here the skydiving family is very small, with most people knowing each other either directly or indirectly. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cjam 0 #33 September 6, 2003 I agree diver driver, if you treat your employees well it will pay for itself in the end. give them minimum wage at least and you might even get some loyalty out of them,if you dont pay them then dont moan if they take another job with zero notice ,and leave you with a full days business ahead of you and noone to fly. As for operating costs of the XL it will be significantly cheaper than the caravan if it adopts its forbearers charactoristic trait of virtually never breaking down. Its systems are simple, robust and proven over 40 years of ag flying in NZ.Add to that the fact that it will out perform the caravan on skydiving ops and I cant see how it will fail PS. A 300HP piston does sound quite nice but can it really compare with the "tick tick tick" of 10kV igniters just audible below the "whoommpf" as the turbine winds up? Not for me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #34 September 6, 2003 QuotePS. A 300HP piston does sound quite nice but can it really compare with the "tick tick tick" of 10kV igniters just audible below the "whoommpf" as the turbine winds up? Not for me! I say "The right tool for the job." Sometimes that's a turbine. Somtimes that's a ballsy beast of a piston engine! Waawhhoooooo!!!!Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GroundZero 0 #35 September 8, 2003 QuoteI have had DZs want me to fly for free because others would. They make it hard for people to get a fair wage when they undercut their fellow professionals like that. The one thing we're missing here... The wage earned by the professional pilot is directly related to the price paid by the customer. I operate both turbine and piston engine planes... have been for almost twenty years. The low jump ticket price dictates the earnings... many times leaving little room for "professional" wages for the pilot. In todays money, I see a pilot making a fair wage with jump tickets being in the 25-30 dollar range. Are (experienced) jumpers ready to pay more to support their drivers? Chris Thank the students for supporting your professional pilots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #36 September 8, 2003 most of the jump pilots i have seen here in Oz (not all) arestill getting their "TIME" up so they need the hours to gain their commercial ticket, if they dont get them running jump planes they have to pay to get them, so they runn the jump planes for flight time only. (our pilot get 30 per day to cover fuel and lunch) I perswonally think he deserves about $10 per load to put up with ther farters onboardYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cjam 0 #37 September 8, 2003 Yeah good point diverdriver, Squeak, I bet if you look into it you will find that your pilots are not building time to get their commercial tickets but in fact are already qualified commercial pilots, building time to become more employable than the next guy/gal. I have not come accross one DZ in Ausi that hires private pilots, in fact a lot of them want not only a commercial licence but an instrument rating as well. There are a few private pilotys flying at DZ's but they are normally tied up in it somehow, ie they own the plane or are jumpers there etc. It is legal for private pilots to do it but why would you hire a ppl when there are 100's of Cpl's with 5 times the flight training waiting to do it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #38 September 8, 2003 Oh, I totally agree that the wage is dictated by revenues. I do work for an airline that is in bankruptcy. But working for free? No, I disagree with that being acceptable. I never said I would be rich flying jumpers and I flew my ass off when I did it full time. It was adequate for the position I was in. That's all I'm saying people should be making. Free = no. Adequate and reasonable = yes.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #39 September 8, 2003 Anyone know when Skydance expects to take delivery? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #40 September 8, 2003 Chris, It has never changed and probably never will as long as there are "time builders" willing to "work" a professional pilot's position but, also willing to work for less than they are worth. Has not changed in thirty years. ATPCFIMEI Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #41 September 8, 2003 QuoteChris, It has never changed and probably never will as long as there are "time builders" willing to "work" a professional pilot's position but, also willing to work for less than they are worth. Has not changed in thirty years. J.E. Psssst......dude.....I'm still young and idealistic. Quit raining on my parade. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #42 September 9, 2003 I seem to remember someone saying that one would be going to AZ in November for FAA testing...I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #43 October 20, 2003 Just found out that my DZ has bought the first (?) 750 XL in Australia. They are currently using a Caravan. I am very much looking forward jumping from this brand new baby . The follwoing is what Skydive Nagambie just published on their web site: "XL'ent NEWS AT SKYDIVE NAGAMBIE!!!!! Skydive Nagambie has just acquired Australia's newest turbine skydiving machine. The XL 750 (XLerator)is a 17 place purpose built aircraft designed with skydivers in mind. The door is a side door very similar to that of a Caravan. Check out the PAC website for comparisons etc: http://www.utilityaircraft.com/index.html Its arrival date at Nagambie will be 5 Jan 04, and of course there will be a party involved. "--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #44 October 20, 2003 QuoteJust found out that my DZ has bought the first (?) 750 XL in Australia. Fug oFF I jealous it's a pity Nagambie is in Vic, or I'd probably visit,You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
