Would this piss you off?

[Michele 1]

Today I was the looker.

No less than 7 people went looking for the guy we watched cut and land off across a fairly busy street. I grabbed the cart and Nightingale, and off we went. I was through jumping for the day, and Nightingale was visiting. RippedCord and IslandCool went out in their car. The other three were from the dz staff.

All's well that ends well, and while the freebag was not located, the jumper walked back (unaware that so many people were looking for him.) Needless to say, we didn't have radios, and we were not in contact with manifest...and we were out for about 20 minutes. Had he been hurt, we would have found him, and hopefully been able to get help to him quickly. I would've searched until he was found, because I would hope someone would do that to me...and I wasn't miffed that no-one told me; I knew that I had no radio and no cell, so semifor would've been it. As it was, Leif drove out to us and let us know the jumper was back.

My dropzone had no issues letting me take a cart; and lots of the people looking were other jumpers who realized he hadn't come in yet...I am comfortable in knowing my dz, the staff as well as the jumpers, would drop whatever and come looking for me should I land off or have a cutaway and need assistence. And I am pretty certain that had the jumper not walked back, more people would've joined the search on top of the at least 7 who were already out there.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[hanknotdan 0]

As another member of the dz in question(who had a good laugh at your predicament as I watched you back up, (Still can't believe you never tried to spiral it at all) I feel the need to comment on some noticable issues. 1) It didn't take 45 min. That would have been 2 loads out of our otter before you got down and it wasn't. 2) Instructors were fed up with the attitude and refusal to take instruction as a student. I know you are licensed but there is a reason that recurrency jumps require instructors. Your premature was following repeated suggestions that you not freefly esp. not in that rig. If you chose not to listen so be it. 3) The spot was fine despite your claim that it was not so hot. Everyone else made it back on that load and noone complained at all. 4) And this is the big one, people did go looking for you. In fact, one of our tandem instructors was in his truck heading toward the treeline while your buddies were still sharing the laughs about you not spiralling at all. Noone was coerced. He just got in his truck and drove. When he saw you didn't make the trees he turned around and took another route hoping you would head for a road. You headed for the DZ which is cool but we can't get to you easily without trespassing and tearing up certain fields if you don't head for a road.
Your buddies had a sense of humor, hell your date had a far better sense of humor about it and she missed her son's birthday dinner. Although I think your big plan of impressing her with a second date at the dropzone kind of blew up in your face. Oh wait a minute....... now I see why you're pissed.

[funks 1]

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As another member of the dz in question(who had a good laugh at your predicament as I watched you back up, (Still can't believe you never tried to spiral it at all) I feel the need to comment on some noticable issues. 1) It didn't take 45 min. That would have been 2 loads out of our otter before you got down and it wasn't. 2) Instructors were fed up with the attitude and refusal to take instruction as a student. I know you are licensed but there is a reason that recurrency jumps require instructors. Your premature was following repeated suggestions that you not freefly esp. not in that rig. If you chose not to listen so be it. 3) The spot was fine despite your claim that it was not so hot. Everyone else made it back on that load and noone complained at all. 4) And this is the big one, people did go looking for you. In fact, one of our tandem instructors was in his truck heading toward the treeline while your buddies were still sharing the laughs about you not spiralling at all. Noone was coerced. He just got in his truck and drove. When he saw you didn't make the trees he turned around and took another route hoping you would head for a road. You headed for the DZ which is cool but we can't get to you easily without trespassing and tearing up certain fields if you don't head for a road.
Your buddies had a sense of humor, hell your date had a far better sense of humor about it and she missed her son's birthday dinner. Although I think your big plan of impressing her with a second date at the dropzone kind of blew up in your face. Oh wait a minute....... now I see why you're pissed.

I find it unbelievable that this thread is still going but since it is I guess I will post one more time...A big issue has been made about how long i said i spent under canopy, could it have been 20-25 minutes, possible, did it feel like 45..under a 288 from 13k, hell yes it did...Why didnt i spiral down, like i said before i was giving it every chance to fly back to the dz....I never said no one came looking for me, I think we have confirmed that 2 people did come look for me, my buddy and one other person. Another post mentioned i landed at mcnastys and the pickup point for mcnastys is his gate at the end of the road and that is where everyone who lands there gets picked up, well, that is where i walked to, I did not head for the DZ, I climbed over his fence at the end of the road, there was no car there waiting for me so i walked along the road until i could cut over onto the airport...oh and btw, i wasnt trying to impress the chick i was with, she begged to come and check it all out, though it did suck having that happen while she was there, i even laugh about that..... this thread has gotten a little nuts...i am not pissed, perhaps i was heated for awhile a week or so after it happened, but i am not pissed....every lesson is a lesson learned.... I noticed someone from the dz called this weekend, i wasnt home...feel free to call again...if whoever called doesnt have my number handy feel free to pm me and i'll send it to you....

[beej 0]

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but i am not pissed....every lesson is a lesson learned....

One good lesson you must have learned is not to readily jump on here blowing a fuse...the skydive community here at dz.com, as you have since noticed, is grapevined to reality. i.e. 'blow off' on here, and someone at your DZ will get to know about it.

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If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)--

[pilotdave 0]

I havent read all the replies so maybe this was mentioned already... but the 2 times I jumped a manta 288, I COULD NOT spiral. I couldn't make that canopy dive in a turn at all. I was literally doing full toggle input s-turns down to maybe 50 feet. I might have been able to turn faster if i had wrapped the brakelines a few times though.

Dunno if it woulda taken 45 mins to get down from 13,000, but it wouldn't be quick either!

And no, I wouldn't be pissed. I'd be mad at myself and mad at the gear, mad at the packer, mad at the DZO, mad at my 3rd grade teacher, and mad at my weight vest... but I'd expect to have to walk back, whether anyones searching for me or not. Can't be easy to find a skydiver 2.5 miles off course unless he lands next to the main road.

Dave

[ostrich 0]

Funks, as the instructor who drew the short straw and was working with you for the day, I feel compelled to chime in. There were a lot of red flags, and I probably should never have let you get on that plane.

Here’s how I remember that day:

• You showed up at 3pm on and wanted to rent a rig. We had to quiz you to discover you needed a recurrency.
• You had no paperwork, logbook or anything to show your currency.
• I understood you had been out five months and were jonesing for a jump, so I handed off the paying students I had to make time to work with you.
• When I suggested you should get in the leaning harness and practice procedures, you argued about it and sad “it would make me look silly”. That’s a way to get on someone’s good side, to think that practicing emergency procedures would make you look silly. I should have seen the red flag and stopped it right there.
• I called the DZ your went through AFF at and they described you as “sketchy” and “always trying to cut corners”. Red flag 2
• When being quizzed on basic skydiving information, you were unable to calculate your estimated deployment speed for a 30 second freefall. You kept insisting that you would be opening at less than terminal after 30 seconds. Red flag 3.
• We planned a simple two way where you would do a floater exit, back flip and dock on me from 10 feet. You expressed you weren’t sure if you could do these maneuvers on your belly . Red Flag 4
• On the 20 minute call, I told you I was going to get ready. On the 5 minute call you still weren’t ready. I checked that your AAD was on and your rig checked out, your alti was set to zero so down to the plane we went. When I asked if you had everything, you said yes. At 10k you discovered you didn’t have your goggles. Red Flag 5
• When we got down for attempt no. 2, I had other obligations, so I handed you off to another of our good instructors. You talked him into sit flying the jump with you and that’s when your exposed bridle pulled your pilot chute and gave you the preemie. I’m glad you’re ok from that and especially glad you probably weren’t at full terminal when it happened.
• We all watched you backing away from the dropzone and were all hoping you’d spiral. I’m your size and I’ve spiraled that canopy plenty myself. It’s a semi-ellipitcal 280.
• We sent a car after you, AND waited at the gate you were supposed to walk out too. You never showed, so after your buddy got out of the car to walk to you, we considered you ok.

You didn't check in with manifest when you came in, just dropped our rig in a pile a took off. I reckon that's because you had already made your date an hour late for her son's birthday party. Dude, if that girl doesn't drop after that story of a second date, she's a keeper.

Now I’ve got other local DZ’s asking for your description so if you show up there asking for a recurrency, they’ll know you better land on or you’ll whine to the world.

As far as I'm concerned you are welcome to come back here and jump anytime, but I hope you'll have a different attitude.

[scottjaco 0]

One thing I would like to add here, Why would a jumpmaster do a refresher jump that involved sit flying? I thought the purpose of the refresh was to demonstrate basic belly to earth skills ect. and being able to pull while stable. Why get fancy? Doing freeflying for a refresher is pointless!

Why let a "red flag" student use a rig that had so much exposed bridle? What type of rig was it? Was the Briddle tucked inside properly to minimize this risk? Was the BOC pouch snug enough so it wouldn't just slip out at the slightest pull from the bridle?

I don't blame this guy entirely, You are still the jumpmaster and you have a responsibility.

1)Make him do belly to earth first or don't let him jump at all.

2) since this guy was obviously a beginner he probably had no idea about how important it is to minimize bridle exposure for freeflying! Again, it is your job to make sure that your student's rig is up to the task.

There was a series of miscommunications that took place, don't let you're students have control of the situation. If they don't listen, they can't jump!

[quade 3]

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2) since this guy was obviously a beginner . . .

In his profile he claims to have 250ish jumps.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[funks 1]

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Funks, as the instructor who drew the short straw and was working with you for the day, I feel compelled to chime in. There were a lot of red flags, and I probably should never have let you get on that plane.

Here’s how I remember that day:

• You showed up at 3pm on and wanted to rent a rig. We had to quiz you to discover you needed a recurrency.

Quiz me? Not really, you asked me what license i had and when the last time i jumped was. I then produced my license for you. At which point you were more than happy and said "great, thats all i needed" but i guess for the forums sake all of a sudden that wasnt good enough for you?

• You had no paperwork, logbook or anything to show your currency.

Paperowrk? What paperwork would you expect someone to have. As mentioned above, I had my license on me.

• I understood you had been out five months and were jonesing for a jump, so I handed off the paying students I had to make time to work with you.

Do not act like you did me a favor. I paid for your slot and the fee for the recurrency jump. Does that not make me a paying "student"?

• When I suggested you should get in the leaning harness and practice procedures, you argued about it and sad “it would make me look silly”. That’s a way to get on someone’s good side, to think that practicing emergency procedures would make you look silly. I should have seen the red flag and stopped it right there.

I did not think the harness was necessary, but as you will recall i got right in it and practiced every maneuver you presented.

• I called the DZ your went through AFF at and they described you as “sketchy” and “always trying to cut corners”. Red flag 2

I would love to know who you talked to. Please feel free to PM the info. I have a hard time believing this.

• When being quizzed on basic skydiving information, you were unable to calculate your estimated deployment speed for a 30 second freefall. You kept insisting that you would be opening at less than terminal after 30 seconds. Red flag 3.

Dont necessarily see the point here...red flag? ok.

• We planned a simple two way where you would do a floater exit, back flip and dock on me from 10 feet. You expressed you weren’t sure if you could do these maneuvers on your belly . Red Flag 4

You forgot to mention the reason i said this is because i have been freeflying for 200+ jumps. The expression of not being sure i could do it was in a pure joking fashion. Nice twist you put on it here though.

• On the 20 minute call, I told you I was going to get ready. On the 5 minute call you still weren’t ready. I checked that your AAD was on and your rig checked out, your alti was set to zero so down to the plane we went. When I asked if you had everything, you said yes. At 10k you discovered you didn’t have your goggles. Red Flag 5

Red Flag? Ok, so i guess every single person who has ever forgotten goggles deserves this so called red flag???

• When we got down for attempt no. 2, I had other obligations, so I handed you off to another of our good instructors. You talked him into sit flying the jump with you and that’s when your exposed bridle pulled your pilot chute and gave you the preemie. I’m glad you’re ok from that and especially glad you probably weren’t at full terminal when it happened.

• We all watched you backing away from the dropzone and were all hoping you’d spiral. I’m your size and I’ve spiraled that canopy plenty myself. It’s a semi-ellipitcal 280.

What good would spiraling have done? It would not have put me any closer to the DZ...if anything I gained a little forward movement by letting it fly for a little while..once again, not sure the point your making here.

• We sent a car after you, AND waited at the gate you were supposed to walk out too. You never showed, so after your buddy got out of the car to walk to you, we considered you ok.

You waited at the gate? Funny, that is the gate i walked too. There was no car there. That is where my buddy eventually caught up to me.

You didn't check in with manifest when you came in, just dropped our rig in a pile a took off. I reckon that's because you had already made your date an hour late for her son's birthday party. Dude, if that girl doesn't drop after that story of a second date, she's a keeper.

I didnt check in with manifest??? Well can you please explain who wrote out my check and signed my name on it???? Funny thing is, manifest was paging me before I was even back asking me to come pay. Sorry, but I find that very humorous that manifest didnt even know where i was. I was told this by the chick i was with and could even hear them paging me over and over the closer i got to the airport. You gotta love it, a manifest that is more concerned about getting paid then knowing where the jumper is. And do not tell me they knew everything was ok at that point because i was not back yet and the only person who knew everything was cool was my buddy who was walking back with me,.

Now I’ve got other local DZ’s asking for your description so if you show up there asking for a recurrency, they’ll know you better land on or you’ll whine to the world.

Whine to the world? Yeah, thats it. Call it what you will, I know the whole story, and deep down inside you do too. I know for a fact, that I am not the only person this would have irritated. It is very easy to have a specific picture painted when there are so many people doing it. I have been made to look like the only one with an attitude...i know that is not the whole case though, and it obviously isnt worth trying to get across here.

As far as I'm concerned you are welcome to come back here and jump anytime, but I hope you'll have a different attitude.

Yep, and you by far have an awesome attitude. Who knows, I may jump there again, I may not. There are a number of people I enjoy jumping with there. Who knows....I know the majority of the people at this dz are very very cool, like i have said before, i have been jumping there for over a year now. No offense to those people, I hope you know who you are....Ostrich, you made many mentions of my attitude...I may be 100% wrong here, but i bet if you look around you would find plenty of people who have an issue with your attitude in general. I do hope I come back there and jump, because i spend a shitload jumping, doing it everysingle weekend, and i would hate to see this DZ lose a steady paying customer because of one bs incident....oh yeah, i was wondering...the first load that i forgot my goggles on and rode the plane down..when i got down the chick i was with came up to me and said "What a dick, he walked by calling you an asshole for forgetting your goggles" Yep, you are an awesome dude with an awesome attitude....

[funks 1]

ostrich...just so you dont miss it, i wanted to point out in my last response that all of my responses to your points are mixed in with your quote...i didnt separate all the quotes...just wanting to make sure you read it all

[scottjaco 0]

It sounds like you were in fact a "paying student"
why would he drop you after you forgot your goggles?
He had other obligations? What?! A student with more money?

Customer Service is important to me...I would consider going elswhere if I was treated like this.
I realize DZ's don't make tons of money but it is a two way street.

You have a right to post your opinions on this website. I don't understand how other dropzones could be calling around asking for your description?
What are they going to do? Blacklist you? you are a licensed jumper, jump where you want!

Remember to SPOT! BEFORE YOU JUMP!

[PhreeZone 15]

>?What are they going to do? Blacklist you?

Yep... I know a few DZ's that blacklist people due to gross safety concerns. Have a few cypres fires or do something REALLY stupid and get kicked off the DZ? They make sure to call around and tell the rest of the local DZ's of the issue and make sure they are all up to speed to prevent a fatality or lawsuit.

If a person showed up tommorrow and wanted to jump and had no longbook, no rig and no one knew them I'd call their normal home and ask for details on the jumper too.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[dropoutdave 0]

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Paperowrk? What paperwork would you expect someone to have. As mentioned above, I had my license on me.

Erm...their logbook perhaps?? Seems obvious to me and everyone else.

Maybe it's just me but if I had this many people voicing concerns about me I would have looked at my attitude long before, but hey, maybe that's just me.

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May Contain Nut traces......

[Plaedouh 0]

I do have to concede a point you have, that there are some attitudes here (yes, yours included) that come across as too antagonistic to do anyone some good. However, you do bring up some good questions a lot of people can learn from, including myself.

First, paperwork. Yes, paperwork is real important, namely a log book. The purpose of a log book isn't just to show who you jumped with, or how fast you can turn points or whatever your taste may be... it is to show how frequently you jump, what your tendencies, strengths, weaknesses and habits are, as well as how current you are. Many DZs won't want to do a whole lot with you if you claim to have xxx number of jumps, but can't prove it, and prove when they were. 2 days, 2 months, or 2 years...whenever your last jump was, your log book is the primary way to show a new DZ how safe they can expect you to be.

Second, the quizzing on "basic information" such as freefall speed, freefall time, deployment speed, etc. That's stuff you *must* know, not just to get an A license, but to be a safe skydiver. If a dropzone chooses to let someone jump from their plane, and fall toward the ground at speeds above 120mph, it is really really important to have a basic understanding on what factors are going on around you, so that you know and understand how to react, so that you can save your own life, and not put yourself or anyone around you in danger. None of us want to see you, or anyone get hurt in any way in this sport. There are some basic things we all need to understand, so we're not being reckless when we exit the aircraft. By knowing fall rate, deployment speeds and the important issues related to them, you can jump safer. You're jumping out of a plane, I hope safety is one of the bigger issues you find important to you.

Miscommunication's happen. Maybe you were joking when you said you wern't sure of your belly flying skill. Maybe the instructor didn't catch the sarcasm. Those things happen, next time we'll all know to be sure things are communicated clearly.

I've forgotten my goggles on a jump, and I know plenty of people who have too. While anyone who does certainly deserves to be laughed at, that's all that it warrents. No big deal. And honestly, the coach/instructor probably could have caught that with a 30 second gear check.

Spiraling. Would it have gotten you closer to the dropzone? Yes! It would have gotten you *down* closer to the dropzone. You would have found you had a better chance to get back if you got yourself out of the strong upper winds asap.

All the rest is just jibberish from here. People came out to get you, and while it may have not been the most convenient end to the jump, you were able to walk away (best part of the whole story here, you were able to walk away completely unhurt). Don't be unsettled a large group was not sent out for you. People were able to see where you were landing, and in that case it only takes one or two people to recover you. It is too bad they couldn't get right to you, but these things happen. I have jumped at this DZ several times, and I have seen some of the DZ regulars, and even an Instructor land off... way off, and only one truck was sent out to find that individual. I have landed off there twice myself, once I was picked up, once I walked the full way back. Point is when someone says they are going to get you, we all trust they said that because they know where to get you, and the fastest way to do it.

It sucks you had such a negetive experience, because it happened at what I have found to be one of my all time favorite mid-size dropzones. I do hope this doesn't jade your experiences and interactions from here, because can take away from one of the biggest reasons we all become so absorbed in the sport...the people we jump with.

In the end I think everyone needs to just take a deep breath, and put this down as a learning experience, for all of us. In all honesty, I do want to thank you for bringing this all up, because all in all, some important things have been brought to the surface. I know by following this discussion I have learned some things that I will apply to my work with students in the future, as well as new visitors to Dropzones I work at.


edited because i can't spell for shit

[beej 0]

..Well written...

..I declare this thread now dead...

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If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)--

[dropoutdave 0]

Amen. I've only just joined it but I think i've heard enough already.

Zzzzzzzipit.

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May Contain Nut traces......

[Auryn 0]

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Carolina Sky Sports has a good system.You put your jump ticket in a sleeve that has your name and exit weight on it and give it to manifest.After you land there is your sleeve hanging on the wall and you pick it up.Manifest checks that all of the sleeves have been picked up.If not they page the person.
I've only been there for boogies so I don't know if they use that system all the time,but it works great.

they only use that system for boogies. day to day, there is just reliance on observation, which works great during the normal operation of the DZ. CSS is the best DZ I have been to about getting off jumpers, to the point that even during normal times they EMPLOY at least one person to help out w/ such things. They will often be waiting there for you when you land off.

D 27808

[funks 1]

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***
Maybe it's just me but if I had this many people voicing concerns about me I would have looked at my attitude long before, but hey, maybe that's just me.

This many people voicing their concerns? Comments like this distort the facts...There have been maybe 3 people mentioning my attitude that were actually there that day. So far out of those 3, I only recall having a conversation with ONE of them that particular day. My opinion (and yes it is just my opinion) is that this is your typical case of a buddy backing up a buddy backing up a buddy. People who know me know I do not have a poor attitude. Please do not comment on my attitude unless you were there that day or know me personally.

[funks 1]

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..Well written...

..I declare this thread now dead...[/reply

Couldnt have put it better myself. No hard feelings here.

• Quote

[hanknotdan 0]

Can't speak for everyone at the DZ but I will say this:

1)Harness wasn't necessary? You had a premie while in freeflying which means you are exceeding the recommending opening speeds of canopies. That's snapped lines or torn cells waiting to happen. I for one am glad that you practiced your mals in the harness since your poor judgement nearly put you in the position of needing them after a hard opening shock.

2) Don't see the point about opening speeds? And you had a premie freeflying? And you thought it would be subterminal? Well? Was it? LOL

3) Everyone at our DZ who forgets his goggles does indeed get labelled a dumbass. And usually loudly and embarassingly so they will not forget again. Everybody does it and yes everyone gets some form of warning. Did Ostrich over react? Probably. His jump plans were shot because of his unwillingness to make a recurrency with a dumbass and his overall annoyance at you. Plus that's just his way. Just be thankful noone threatened to shoot you in the face ;-)

4) Spiralling a canopy when you can't make it back because you are being pushed back from a high deployment and you don't see "What good would spiraling have done?" Really? Spiralling canopies get to the ground faster, they therefore spend less time in the winds, they therefore get pushed back less. You seriously don't get this?

It's adding up. You seem to need additional instruction on safe skydiving. If you have a problem with that and don't like our attitude and want to jump elsewhere, feel free. I for one won't mind one bit. As for attitude, Ostrich is an ass and most people know it. So am I sometimes. But Ostrich is safe so I will jump with him any day of the week. His attitude may be annoying, abrasive, obnoxious(stop me anytime Ostrich) but it's not dangerous. Yours is. Every DZ I know has plenty of dumbasses already, ours included. feel free not to increase the population. I don't mean to say don't jump here just do it a bit more smartly. Everyone makes dumb mistakes, some people learn from them and some people don't. Some people do something that could have seriously hurt them and get pissed off because they didn't get a ride. I got hurt on and off field landing a year ago from a truly bad spot. Yes, I gave the guy some jovial abuse. But 1) I got out of the plane and 2) I should have chosen my landing area better. Learned a little something from it. (Cause next time I might not be as lucky) Never once started a post about that bastard who... get the point? So far it doesn't sound like you learned a damn thing from what can only be described as a series of poor choices. That's the attitude that scares me, not whether someone's a prick or not.
And if you do want to blast on general attitude, it wasn't Ostrich who came in here and posted,"Would this piss you off? A dumbass wouldn't follow instructions, had a dangerous skydive, landed off and generally affected the impression that whuffos and newbies have of our sport and DZ just because he wouldn't listen and then was annoyed with US?" No Ostrich didn't start a post that way. Who around here did start a moan and groan fest along those lines? Hmmm.

Yup, that would piss me off.

[tunaplanet 0]

Lol, I love people who talk tough at the safety of their own computers. Funny stuff.

Ok, I think we can all agree this poor horse has been beat, shot, skinned, hung and set on fire. That poor ole horse. Maybe he can finally rest in peace.

Forty-two

[dropoutdave 0]

The horse may have been beat, shot, skinned, hung and set on fire but has it learnt anything?

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May Contain Nut traces......

[kiadog 0]

WOW BITCHIN MAN

[funks 1]

Quote

Can't speak for everyone at the DZ but I will say this:

1)Harness wasn't necessary? You had a premie while in freeflying which means you are exceeding the recommending opening speeds of canopies. That's snapped lines or torn cells waiting to happen. I for one am glad that you practiced your mals in the harness since your poor judgement nearly put you in the position of needing them after a hard opening shock.

2) Don't see the point about opening speeds? And you had a premie freeflying? And you thought it would be subterminal? Well? Was it? LOL

3) Everyone at our DZ who forgets his goggles does indeed get labelled a dumbass. And usually loudly and embarassingly so they will not forget again. Everybody does it and yes everyone gets some form of warning. Did Ostrich over react? Probably. His jump plans were shot because of his unwillingness to make a recurrency with a dumbass and his overall annoyance at you. Plus that's just his way. Just be thankful noone threatened to shoot you in the face ;-)

4) Spiralling a canopy when you can't make it back because you are being pushed back from a high deployment and you don't see "What good would spiraling have done?" Really? Spiralling canopies get to the ground faster, they therefore spend less time in the winds, they therefore get pushed back less. You seriously don't get this?

It's adding up. You seem to need additional instruction on safe skydiving. If you have a problem with that and don't like our attitude and want to jump elsewhere, feel free. I for one won't mind one bit. As for attitude, Ostrich is an ass and most people know it. So am I sometimes. But Ostrich is safe so I will jump with him any day of the week. His attitude may be annoying, abrasive, obnoxious(stop me anytime Ostrich) but it's not dangerous. Yours is. Every DZ I know has plenty of dumbasses already, ours included. feel free not to increase the population. I don't mean to say don't jump here just do it a bit more smartly. Everyone makes dumb mistakes, some people learn from them and some people don't. Some people do something that could have seriously hurt them and get pissed off because they didn't get a ride. I got hurt on and off field landing a year ago from a truly bad spot. Yes, I gave the guy some jovial abuse. But 1) I got out of the plane and 2) I should have chosen my landing area better. Learned a little something from it. (Cause next time I might not be as lucky) Never once started a post about that bastard who... get the point? So far it doesn't sound like you learned a damn thing from what can only be described as a series of poor choices. That's the attitude that scares me, not whether someone's a prick or not.
And if you do want to blast on general attitude, it wasn't Ostrich who came in here and posted,"Would this piss you off? A dumbass wouldn't follow instructions, had a dangerous skydive, landed off and generally affected the impression that whuffos and newbies have of our sport and DZ just because he wouldn't listen and then was annoyed with US?" No Ostrich didn't start a post that way. Who around here did start a moan and groan fest along those lines? Hmmm.

Yup, that would piss me off.

I for one, and the same goes for some other people that I know, have realized that your posts have reached the deepest depths of desparation. Its ok though, you and Ostrichs will continue to live your lives as asses (I said it, you confirmed it) and we will all go on and live to breathe another day. The only question I have for you is to expand a little on the "Be glad no one threatened to shoot me in the face" comment???? Where did that come from and what the hell is that supposed to mean??? Anxiously awaiting your friendly response......

Recommendation / Suggestion for you...You openly admit Ostrich is an ASS and is annoying, abrasive, and obnoxious. You also admit to being an ASS at times. Being instructors (and this is my opinion) may I suggest it may be in your best interest to change your general attitudes. Who knows, I could be wrong. Ask around, you may find I am right. I promise I will do my best to not be a dumbass since that is apparently what I am according to you (who I have never met or spoken word one to).

[jlmiracle 7]

I've been watching the post and well this is what I have to say about it.

First off, why don't you have a D license if you have 250ish jumps and your motorcycle accident was July? You have time to get that in before the deadline. Where is your 170 Sabre? Do you have your own gear?

Did you honestly think you can show up at any dropzone with no logbook, no nothing, and just expect them to bow down to your demands?

Had you showed up at our dz with NO logbook, nothing, you would have been put through a refresher course to make sure you really know what you are doing and you would be on student gear. Had you given us grief about being put in the harness or a refresher, you would not have jumped.

Why didn't you spiral down? I know it was asked several times, but I didn't see a response from you as to why.

Like so many others said, what are they suppose to do shut the dz down and have EVERYONE go look for you.

I hope you can change your attitude about RECURRENCY and what is expected of EVERY dropzone when it comes to situations like yours.

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.